‘This Week’ Transcript: Loretta Lynch
— -- THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT FOR "THIS WEEK" ON JULY 26, 2015.
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ANNOUNCER (voice-over): Starting right now on ABC's THIS WEEK -- breaking news. ISIS under fire. A U.S. ally opens up a major new front against the extremist army.
Is this a game-changer in the fight to take down ISIS?
And (INAUDIBLE) the new terror threat at home. America's top prosecutor taking on what might be our most serious moment since 9/11. Pierre Thomas is one-on-one with Attorney General Loretta Lynch.
Planned Parenthood uproar, the group's president here live to respond to those undercover videos. It's an ABC News exclusive.
Plus, Hillary's campaign on the brand new email firestorm.
And Trump's GOP lead gets even bigger. What he is saying now that has him surging in the polls.
From ABC News, THIS WEEK with George Stephanopoulos begins now.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST: Good morning, all of the news from the campaign trail coming up. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton dominating the headlines this week.
But we begin with that brand new front in the fight against ISIS. Key American ally Turkey now joining the fight for the first time. ABC's Alex Marquardt brings us the latest from Beirut.
Good morning, Alex.
ALEX MARQUARDT, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, George.
Turkey has long been accused of not doing enough in this fight against ISIS, of standing by while fighters and weapons cross their long border into Syria. But now Turkey has suddenly and dramatically stepped up its role in a way that could have big consequences for both ISIS and itself.
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MARQUARDT (voice-over): For the first time, wave of airstrikes by Turkish jets pounding ISIS positions in northern Syria. And Turkey, a NATO ally, now also agreeing to let the U.S. use an air base in the south, to launch drones and fighter jets against ISIS, bringing American pilots far closer to their targets.
Turkey jumping into the ISIS fight just days after a suicide bombing in Southern Turkey blamed on ISIS that left over 30 dead.
COL. STEVE GANYARD, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This is probably more than the U.S. ever expected to gain, we were only asking for basing rights. But now we're getting basing rights and we're getting the Turkish air force contributing to the attacking of ISIS within Syria.
MARQUARDT (voice-over): Now, Turkey is hoping to push ISIS back from its 560-mile-long border with Syria. But they're also targeting the Kurds, long-time enemies who Turkey has now started bombing in Northern Iraq, a dicey situation for the U.S. because the forces Turkey is hitting are allied with fellow Kurds supported by the Pentagon and fighting against ISIS.
So, what the U.S. has gained in air support could potentially hurt on the ground.
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MARQUARDT: And more Turkish strikes are expected as the U.S. looks to ramp up its efforts from Turkey. But the big question is, is this the game-changer that U.S. officials are hoping for -- George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Alex, thanks. Let's bring that question to Admiral Jim Stavridis, former NATO commander, now the dean of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy.
Admiral Stavridis, thank you for joining us.
Is this a game-changer?
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS, FORMER NATO COMMANDER: I would call it an extremely significant move; we'll know in about a year whether it was the game-changer. But the key is going to be whether Turkey will put boots on the ground to cross that border.
I'm hearing reports of shelling, normally artillery precede troops. Let's hope they're going to put troops across the border. Boots on the ground are going to matter. The Turks have a 4,000-man army. That would be the game-changer.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And how does the U.S. deal with the fact that, on the one hand, Turkey is bombing ISIS, at the same time, they're bombing those Kurds who are fighting ISIS?
STAVRIDIS: Indeed. We ought to play the role of trying to convince the Turks to focus on job one, and job one is really the Islamic State. They were very close, as you know, George, to a negotiated settlement with the PKK just a matter of months ago. We should encourage them to move back in that direction.
We can't have a two-front war going in a way that's efficient.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And what's the most important thing that the U.S. can do now to build on this shift and to bolster fight against ISIS?
STAVRIDIS: The key, George, is going to be putting ISIS under three-axis pressure. So if we could get Turkey coming from the north, if we can get our Iraqi security forces trained up -- that probably requires a few more U.S. troops, a few more thousands; not hundreds of thousands but maybe 10,000 troops -- and keep the Peshmerga, the Kurds in it. Put ISIS under three-axis pressure, we're going to see they're not 10 feet tall.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Admiral Stavridis, thanks very much.
And as the U.S. and allies take the fight to ISIS, the threat here at home continues to intensify. ABC's Pierre Thomas has more on that in his exclusive interview with Attorney General Loretta Lynch.
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LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's as serious if not more serious a threat than Al Qaeda.
PIERRE THOMAS, ABC NEWS SR. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Loretta lynch, the nation's new attorney general, is talking about ISIS, the threat that's front and center, staring her in the face as she arrives at the Justice Department every morning.
This day it's 7:15. The threat from ISIS now a clear and present danger.
THOMAS: Do you agree with some of the assessments from people in Congress, that this is the most dangerous, high-tempo threat environment since 9/11?
LYNCH: It is a dangerous, high-tempo threat environment. And I think the fact that it is still new to us and we are still trying to determine really the scope of it does make it very, very dangerous.
THOMAS (voice-over): Lynch suggests that ISIS is a group rewriting the book on terror tactics, using an unprecedented social media campaign, urging young followers worldwide and here at home to kill.
LYNCH: They've got over 20,000 English language Twitter followers. ISIS focuses on getting individuals to commit act of violence in their name, which they will then take credit for. This is a different model from other terrorist groups.
THOMAS (voice-over): Often no funding, no training, just do it. There's evidence the ISIS plan is working. More than 70 Americans charged in recent years with supporting ISIS. Some accused of plotting to blow up pressure cooker bombs and of planning to murder soldiers and college students en masse.
THOMAS: Does that make the threat more imminent?
LYNCH: I think that it makes it harder to predict. I think it makes it harder to determine who's going to succumb to the propaganda.
THOMAS (voice-over): And there's a new ISIS threat at times making them invisible.
LYNCH: As people get drawn more and more into the rhetoric, they move off of platforms into which we have visibility, into encrypted platforms into which we don't have visibility. That's the going dark problem.
THOMAS (voice-over): And Lynch warned that ISIS may employ a new tool in the future.
THOMAS: ISIS might develop the capacity to do a cyber attack.
LYNCH: Concern that ISIS or any of our foreign enemies might develop that capacity. That is the thing that keeps me and many of my colleagues in law enforcement up at night.
THOMAS (voice-over): And she admitted that the FBI may not be able to detect every lone wolf, ISIS or otherwise; case in point, the Chattanooga shooter, who killed five military personnel.
LYNCH: I think that the fact that he was not on law enforcement's radar illustrates the concern that we have of individuals who are outside the mainstream, yet tap in to these strands of thought or schools of thought that lead them to violence.
THOMAS (voice-over): Each hour, every day, the attorney general at the heart of an epic fight with lives literally hanging in the balance.
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THOMAS: George, Lynch and other top officials are coming to grips with the fact that they're dealing with something new, a terrorist organization effectively using Western tactics to reach angry, unstable Millennials.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks, Pierre.
Now to that uproar over Planned Parenthood. Undercover videos, secretly taped by anti-abortion activists, have raised questions about the group's ethics, reignited the debate over federal funding. And Planned Parenthood's president is here live for her first interview since the tapes came to light, after this from ABC's David Wright.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (from captions): We've been very good at getting heart, lung, liver…
DAVID WRIGHT, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a hidden camera sting of the most influential abortion rights group in America, two videos that purport to show Planned Parenthood officials callously, over lunch, discussing selling parts of human fetuses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (from captions): Yes, liver is huge right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (from captions): Some people want lower extremities, too, which, that's simple; I mean, that's easy.
WRIGHT (voice-over): The man off-camera is David Daleiden, an anti-abortion activist, who claims Planned Parenthood is trying to make a profit from the abortions its performs.
DAVID DALEIDEN, ANTI-ABORTION ACTIVIST: Bottom line, Planned Parenthood's sale of aborted baby parts is about money and is about soothing their consciences for the late-term abortions that they do.
WRIGHT (voice-over): Planned Parenthood denies that. Even on the video, insisting the prices are only to cover costs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (from captions): Nobody should be selling tissue. That's just not the goal here. This is a way to offer patients a service they want, do good for the medical community.
WRIGHT (voice-over): The group also alleges the videos were selectively edited.
That said, Planned Parenthood officials have apologized for the lack of compassion shown on the videos, which have set off a firestorm.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: This video and the one from last week are both gruesome.
WRIGHT (voice-over): Republicans in Congress are opening two separate investigations.
JOHN BOEHNER, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I could talk about the video but I think I'd vomit.
WRIGHT (voice-over): Many Republicans calling to cut all federal funding for Planned Parenthood.
Democrat Hillary Clinton defends the group, dismissing the videos as a smear campaign.
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: It's really an attack against a woman's right to choose.
WRIGHT (voice-over): There may be more bombshells to come. Daleiden says he has more videos in the works.
DALEIDEN: There's going to be at least 10, possibly a dozen more videos to come over the coming days and weeks.
WRIGHT (voice-over): The abortion rights group has weathered plenty of tough fights in the past; the question now, can they withstand this?
For THIS WEEK, David Wright, ABC News, New York.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: And Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood, joins us now.
Thank you for joining us this morning. You just heard David say right there, 10 to 12 more tapes coming, are you worried about what they're going to show?
CECILE RICHARDS, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: No, in the sense that this, of course, has been a three-year, well-funded effort by the most militant wing of the anti-abortion movement in this country to try to entrap doctors and of course highly doctored videos which show absolutely -- they've -- doctors repeatedly said it's all been edited out.
Planned Parenthood does not at all profit from fetal tissue donation, which is an important -- an important element of health care research in this country.
I think what's not told is that, of course, these are highly selectively edited. The folks behind this, in fact, are part of the most militant wing of the anti-abortion movement that has been behind, you know, the bombing of clinics, the murder of doctors in their homes, and in their -- in their churches. And that's what actually needs to be -- to be looked at.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But they -- but you have apologized for Dr. Nucatola's tone...
RICHARDS: Correct.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- in the statements, reports that she's been reprimanded.
So have you spoken to her and the other staff member, Mary Gatter?
How have they been reprimanded?
RICHARDS: They've been reprimanded for their tone, absolutely.
But what I want to really make clear, George, is Planned Parenthood has broken no laws. We have the highest standards. The care and health care and safety of our patients is our most important priority.
In fact, Planned Parenthood has, for 99 years, been one of the largest non-profit health care providers of women in this country. One in five women in this country depend on Planned Parenthood for health care, more than two and a half million people every single year.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you -- you say that no Planned Parenthood affiliated has profited...
RICHARDS: Correct.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- from fetal tissue.
RICHARDS: Correct.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But do you know how many clinics harvest this tissue and how much money they receive?
RICHARDS: Very few. I mean it's only a handful of states and what -- where fetal tissue donation is -- is happening.
But let's -- let's put this in the bigger context, George. This is actually not about women's health care. These activists don't care about that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: When you very few, what are we talking about?
RICHARDS: Less than five. Less than five. And so this was not actually an effort to undercut, you know, to discover any problems, but actually an attempt, a three year effort to entrap doctors. They were completely unsuccessful. And so now they're usually -- using these very highly edited videos, sensationalized videos, to try to impugn and smear the name of Planned Parenthood.
They have zero credibility. They set up a faith company. They apparently used fake government IDs. They've faked faxed tax filings and completely falsified what they were about.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I take your point that the -- the edited -- that the videos they put out are heavily edited, although the entire videos have been available at this point. But...
RICHARDS: And in -- and in that -- in the -- in that longer video, the doctor repeatedly says, more than 10 times, Planned Parenthood does not ever profit or do any...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, but...
RICHARDS: -- of this for profit.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But they also show one of the doctors, Mary Gatter appears to be haggling...
RICHARDS: Absolutely not.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- over the price (INAUDIBLE). I just want to show you that right here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) parts and that's fine. (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't we all, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: But if there's -- if there's no -- if there's no financial benefit to the clinics, why are they haggling over the cost?
RICHARDS: They're not. The only people that are haggling in these videos are the undercover folks who are absolutely trying to entrap doctors. And they were completely unsuccessful. That's why they're showing these highly edited videos, to be sensationalized...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But when you see something like that...
RICHARDS: I think what...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- what do you think?
RICHARDS: It -- it's completely taken out of context. It -- we have -- at Planned Parenthood, we serve two and a half million people every single year. Women come to us for the vast majority of care. They come to us for breast cancer screenings, cervical cancer screenings, birth control. One in five women in the country have been to Planned Parenthood for health care.
I myself went there for birth control. Half of our health centers are in medically undeserved communities in America, places like Lancaster, Pennsylvania, where women come for their basic well women visits.
And that's actually what's at stake. This entire effort is a complete political smear campaign in order to cut off funding for basic health care for women in America at Planned Parenthood.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But...
RICHARDS: And I think one other thing is really important to understand. We do more at Planned Parenthood every single day to prevent unintended pregnancy than any organization in the country. We have for 99 years. And I stand behind our clinicians and our doctors, who provide compassionate care every single day in America...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But the Washington...
RICHARDS: -- despite harassment.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- "The Washington Post" columnist, Michael Gerson, has pointed out that charging a fee for this -- for this material doesn't...
RICHARDS: It's not a fee. It's not a fee. It's actually just the cost of transmitting this material to research institutes. (INAUDIBLE)...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But that does improve the finances of the clinic, doesn't it?
RICHARDS: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Because...
RICHARDS: And, in fact, it's -- in fact, George, it's really important. They have repeatedly tried to entrap doctors. I mean we've now seen, you know, that they repeatedly say, wouldn't you do this for cost -- for -- for money?
And the doctors say no, we do not make...
STEPHANOPOULOS: So no financial benefit...
RICHARDS: -- make money...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- at all. But Stem Express...
RICHARDS: Absolutely not.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- which is one of the companies that you work with, they have a brochure where it talks about the financial profits, the financial benefits that comes...
RICHARDS: Well, Stem Express is a for-profit company. That's not Planned Parenthood. We are a 100 percent non-profit company. We provide health care...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But it talks about the financial benefits to the clinics.
RICHARDS: Well, there are no financial benefits to clinics. And our rec...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely not?
RICHARDS: Absolutely. Absolutely. And we're happy -- look, we look forward to the facts coming out. We should not base any kind of decisions about health care in this country based on highly sensen -- sensationalized folks who are nothing but militant anti-abortion extremists. This is part and parcel of a much longer campaign, over many decades...
STEPHANOPOULOS: The second...
RICHARDS: -- to try to end access to legal abortions in America.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The second issue they raised, the -- the tapes appear to describe times when the clinics adjust the abortion procedure to better harvest...
RICHARDS: It's not done.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- the fetal heart.
RICHARDS: It's absolutely...
STEPHANOPOULOS: (INAUDIBLE).
RICHARDS: -- not done. And I've talked to doctors all across the country. And, look, we're totally open to...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But they say that it does appear that that's -- that's what's being described in these tapes.
RICHARDS: Well, it's because these tapes have been edited and they've tried to entrap doctors to say things. And I -- listen, I stand behind the health care that we provide at Planned Parenthood. Women trust Planned Parenthood.
And I look forward to anyone who wants to look into our policies and procedures. I mean we've sent that to Congress.
The facts are on (INAUDIBLE)...
STEPHANOPOULOS: So but when these doctors are talking about it -- and this gets graphic, but they're talking about less crunchy ways to perform these abortions, so that the organs can be preserved, what's happening there?
Are they just lying?
RICHARDS: No, that's -- that's what -- all of this is taken out of context. What happens in this country, at Planned Parenthood and other hospitals, is that women in a very few places are allowed to donate fetal tissue for life-saving medical research, research that is, you know, developing cures for Parkinson's and for Alzheimer's, even the Ebola vaccine.
To me, this isn't something that actually should be criticized or made fun of. This is actually laudable, that women and their families choose to make fetal tissue donations in order to potentially save the lives of other folks. And I think that...
STEPHANOPOULOS: As long as the procedure is never altered. And you're -- you're stating...
RICHARDS: Absolutely.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- stating that unequivocally?
RICHARDS: That's right.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Any other reforms Planned Parenthood is going to take in the wake of this?
RICHARDS: Well, obviously, we -- you know, the most disgusting part of this, to me, is that these folks lied, lied to gain access to clinics. You know, what doctors and clinicians face to actually provide health care to women in this country is already pretty incredible.
But I think it's really important, you know, the safety and the health of our patients and the women that we provide care to is essential. And we take that, first and foremost. That's the most important thing.
These activists, these militant anti-abortion activists, on the other hand, do nothing to improve the health and safety of women. And if they had their way, women could no longer come to Planned Parenthood for birth control services, for breast cancer screenings, for cervical cancer screenings or any other health care.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Cecile Richards, thanks very much for your time this morning.
RICHARDS: Thanks, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Up next, GOP frontrunner Donald Trump drawing big crowds in Iowa this weekend, taking on a new rival.
We'll be back with Jon Karl and our Powerhouse Roundtable.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: How to handle Donald Trump. He fed a huge Iowa crowd burgers and pulled pork yesterday, threw some new red meat Scott Walker's way. And as Jon Karl reports, Trump's in your face tactics are now stumping his rivals.
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JON KARL, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDETN: On the campaign trail in Iowa Staurday, Trump supporters were out in force.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now you like Trump. Is that right? You better believe it.
KARL: Donald Trump's surge is putting Republicans through the five stages of grief. Some are in denial.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is not going to be the nominee.
KARL: Others have moved to anger.
RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump candidacy is a cancer on conservatism and it must be clearly diagnosed, excised and discarded.
KARL: While some are bargaining that Trump's appeal will fade after what he said about John McCain.
TRUMP: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured.
SEN. LINDESEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SOUTH CAROLINA: I'm going to make a bet, that you're not going to win the Republican nomination slandering veterans.
TRUMP: But while it may depress some in the GOP, they'll have to accept that for now The Donald is the GOP front-runner.
The most recent ABC news/Washington Post poll shows Trump with the biggest lead by far of any Republican yet.
The billionaire businessman's celebrity and say anything, offend anybody, tell it like it is persona has struck a nerve.
Now he's standing atop the polls, guarantees he'll be center stage at the first GOP debate next week.
The former reality star could turn that showdown into a spectacle. Just look at how he talks about his fellow Republicans.
TRUMP: Rick Perry should have to have an IQ test before getting on the debate stage.
The last thing we need is another Bush.
Then I watch this idiot Lindsey Graham on television.
KARL: He's called you an idiot. He's called you a lightweight. He's called you a stiff.
GRAHAM: It's like being at my family reunion.
KARL: Perhaps the thing most likely to stop Trump is Trump himself.
While his favorability has gone up since May, most Republicans remain skeptical. 56 percent of them say Trump does not reflect the core values of theirparty.
In the past, he's donated money to Democrats, supported abortion rights and even praised Hillary Clinton.
TRUMP: I identify with some things as a Democrat.
KARL: But the biggest Republican fear is that Trump will decide to run as a third party candidate, which could guarantee a Clinton victory.
Trump certainly isn't ruling it out.
TRUMP: If I'm treated poorly that's one thing. If I'm treated well and with great respect and don't win, I would not do it. But if I'm treated poorly, I would do it.
KARL: For Republicans, that might be the kind of grief that's just too much to bear.
For This Week, Jonathan Karl, ABC News, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks to Jon for that.
Let's bring in our roundtable: ABC's Matthew Dowd, Maggie Haberman from The New York Times, Democratic congressman Keith Ellison, co-chair of the progressive caucus and Ana Navarro, Republican strategist.
And Matthew, let me begin with you. A new CNN poll out this morning says Republican voters, 52 percent, want him him to stay in. You see these big crowds he is gathering. How do you explain his appeal? What is he tapping into?
MATTHEW DOWD, ABC NEWS POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I think that's a reallyimportant question, to distinguish between Trump and who the voters he's right now channeling into this. And as you look at -- there's a huge amount of anger in this country right now, and there's a huge amount of anger among much of the Republican base. Right now it's being vented by Donald Trump.
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
What's bad is if you start criticizing the voters and don't criticize the candidate. To me, anger is not a negative, much of what we -- the history of this country was gained through anger -- the civil rights movement there was a huge part of anger. But it was channeled in a constructive way.
And if you look at the history, that which is channeled in a constructive way is actually helpful to the country.
Right now, I don't think Donald Trump is channeling the anger in a constructive way. It's a destructive way right now. But don't deny yourself. Those voters, which now represent a quarter of the Republican primary voters, are angry, they're upset and they don't like the establishment.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It may be destructive, Maggie Haberman, but it has complicated the campaigns for these other rivals. They don't quite know what to do with it.
MAGGIE HABERMAN, NEW YORK TIMES: They are literally stumped, This is a Trump stump. They look at him. They don't how to respond. He could turn his sites on your and attack you at any moment.
A lot of these candidates have spent two years knowing this, trying to gain his favor. You had Scott Walker, who sent him a lovely note. You had Rick Santorum come meet with him. Ted Cruz.
He has made clear he is not being discriminating about who he is going after. He commands -- he's blotting out the sun. We didn't see anything like this in 2012. And for the Republican Party, they embraced him in 2011 when he last flirted with running. It's very hard to disavow it now.
STEPHANOPOULOS: To pick up on Maggie's point, Ana Navarro, he and Walker have been playing nice for a while. Walker's team attacks him yesterday. He goes off on him in Iowa.
ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know, it's kind of interesting. I think you can divide the Republican field into three separate pots, right: those who are trying to be nice to him in hopes that they can pick up some of his crumbs if and when he leaves, those who are silent and just hoping to dodge his bullets, and those that are standing up to him, decrying him and saying he does not stand for Republican values, like Marco Rubio, like Jeb Bush, like Chris Christie, like Rick Perry, like Lindsey Graham.
And so I think it's -- you know, choose your pot.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm watching Keith Ellison over here just smiling silently through this whole discussion.
(LAUGHTER)
REP. KEITH ELLISON, (D) MINNESOTA: Well, all I want to say is that anybody -- well, from the Democratic side of the fence, who thinks -- who's terrified of the possibility of President Trump better vote, better get active, better get involved, because this man has some momentum, and we better be ready for the fact that he might be leading the Republican ticket.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I know you don't believe that. But I want to go on...
ELLISON: You know, George, we had Jesse Ventura in Minnesota win the governship. Nobody thought he was going to win. I'm telling you, stranger things have happened.
DOWD: Also, George -- also let's keep in mind this is not a national primary, which is this is a great argument against national primaries, many of which picked it. Donald Trump -- and the great thing about our process is, you have to meet voters, talk to them, and connect with them along the way and hvae to at some point be rational and thoughtful.
STEPHANOPOULOS: On that point, a new Iowa poll out this morning shows Scott Walker in the lead at 19, but Trump right there at 17 percent.
Fast forward to next week, August 6, first debate. You've advised a lot of candidates. What would you tell the field about how to handle Trump at this debate?
DOWD: Well, the first part of this thing is, how do you get into the debate? Because right now there's the number of credible candidates that are out -- not even in the debate. And that's part of the problem in this cycle that we're in is the only way you can get into that debate is to do something outrageous. Donald Trump has set the bar of outrageousness, which is why Lindsey Graham did that -- which I'm sure we'll talk about -- did that blender ad.
He was doing it to get attention to try to get into that first debate. John Kasich, the governor of Ohio, has to get into that first debate.
The problem is, is that stage is now set for outlandish behavior. Few opportunities to get your name out there and try to compete with Donald Trump's behavior. I would say that, if I were advising somebody, I would confront Donald Trump in a very thoughtful, critical way. Don't criticize his voters, don't go after his voters don't do what John McCain did, which is call them crazies. Don't do that. You need those voters.
But go after Donald Trump in a very critical, thoughtful way.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Ana, you're close to Jeb Bush. Do you think that's what he's going to do?
NAVARRO: I think Jeb's going to be Jeb. I think you're going to see him what you've seen him doing consistently for the last five week since Trump has been in saying he is not representative of my values. He's not representative of the Republican values. Yes, recognizing that there are legitimate frustrations, legitimate concerns, legitimate fears in the American people with the dysfunction in Washington.
I agree with you that the voters have legitimate frustration that is being channeled through Trump.
But at some point, you have to be the adult on that stage. You have to have some policy, you have to have some substance. You can't just be on a debate stage attacking people saying, I'm rich and everybody loves me. That doesn't cut it.
DOWD: But the problem Jeb has is these are the Jeb voters. These are actually the voters who don't want Jeb; he's now at 28 percent and they don't want Jeb. So, even if Donald Trump drops, Jeb isn't going up.
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- who's going to get his voters. We'll talk more about that in the next roundtable. We're going to talk about Hillary as well. Some surprising new polls out for her this week.
And Donald Trump also gave out Graham's phone number out on live TV. Matt Dowd was talking about that. Lindsey Graham is going to be here live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Next, presidential contender Lindsey Graham here live, taking on Donald Trump and smashing his cellphone.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS (voice-over): There is Lindsey Graham, incinerating his cellphone, putting it in a blender, dropping it off a roof, all that after Donald Trump gave his telephone number out on live television, deluging him with calls.
Lindsey Graham joins us right now.
And you have a new phone yet, Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, it's the iPhone. I'm sure Apple stock will soar. But, I've got an iPhone.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You never even sent an e-mail before, this will be new for you?
GRAHAM: Well, that doesn’t mean -- well, let me tell you, I don't know if I'm going to e-mail. But I do have an iPhone. I needed to upgrade. Donald Trump's done something my staff could never get me to do and that's get a new phone. So thanks, Donald.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about -- we were just talking with the roundtable about the nature of Donald Trump's appeal. You've -- haven't been shy about taking him on at all. You called him "toxic."
But the question, I think, for a lot of Republicans is -- seems to be tapping into something. Can you take him on without turning off those voters?
GRAHAM: Well, number one, I would ask the Republican Party to understand why most major companies are firing Mr. Trump and I don't think we should hire him.
You know, I'm not taking on voters. I'm taking on an idea of -- that I think he's appealing to the dark side of American politics. He is not offering solutions to hard, complicated problems. He is basically selling fear and prejudice --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Then why is he doing so well?
GRAHAM: -- say, but -- well, I think there's a market in both parties if you say outrageous things. There's a market in my party for people -- if you say that Obama's not born in America, that he's actually born in Kenya, there are people want to believe that.
If you say most illegal immigrants are drug dealers and rapists, there are people that want to believe that.
And he's appealing to fear and prejudice. And there's a market for that. If you said Bush was a war criminal or he's stupid, there's a market for that on the other side.
So what Mr. Trump is offering is not really good for the party or the country but unfortunately, there's a market for this.
STEPHANOPOULOS: In fact, you said back in 2013 that if your party didn't get behind comprehensive immigration reform, it doesn’t matter who you run in 2016, you're going to lose.
You still believe that?
GRAHAM: Oh, now more than ever. But the odd thing is that Mr. Trump was on television this morning, explaining his plan for immigration, which is very similar to what I've been supporting for 10 years.
Here's what I believe about Mr. Trump. The marketplace will work over time and we're going to get serious as a party about winning in '16. We have a wonderful opportunity to win. We've had a great show this morning and no one's talked about the Iranian nuclear agreement. I am going to work hard in Iowa, New Hampshire, to convince people that I'm the best person to lead this country and to defend this nation in a time of great peril.
Mr. Trump talks about his bank account a lot and how rich he is. My dad said something that stuck with me a long time ago, don't judge a person by the size of their bank account but what's in their heart.
And I can tell you as to the men and women who are fighting this war and serve our nation, they have relative modest bank accounts but they have great hearts.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, you bring --
GRAHAM: I don't believe Mr. Trump is qualified to be commander in chief. I think he's bankrupt when it comes to the -- all the qualities you need to lead the men and women in uniform and to lead a great nation.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You're running on the platform of national security. One of your other contenders, one of the other rivals, Chris Christie, had an ad this week, where he made the same point. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Obama gave away the store with the Iranians, to a group of people who since 1979 have been chanting, "Death to America." And so as president, the top priority is to protect the United States of America. And I'm the only one in this race who had at least some small part of that responsibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you think when you heard that?
"I'm the only one in this race" who's had a "small part of that responsibility"?
GRAHAM: Well, I'll tell Chris that I like him a lot but for the last 10 years, I've been busting my butt going to Iraq and Afghanistan for over 30 -- over 35 times to understand what's going on in the region, to learn from Bush's mistakes, my mistakes and Obama's mistakes, that I'm the best qualified to be commander in chief. I understand the region better than anyone.
I've served 33 years in the air force. I just retired last month.
And when it comes to this Iranian deal, let me tell you what we've done. We've given them a bomb, a missile to deliver it and money to pay for it. This is a terrible deal.
And the reason we got such a bad deal is the Iranians don't believe Obama would ever use the military option to stop their nuclear breakout...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you think Congress is going to reject it?
GRAHAM: -- and they (INAUDIBLE) for one minute -- I hope so. They never believed for one minute that John Kerry would ever walk away.
I hope that we will reject this deal, because if we don't, the next president will have no leverage to get a better deal.
We can get a better deal. We must get a better deal. And here's what we need to understand, that this is a religious theocracy that practices a form of Islam that compels them to destroy the state of Israel and to come after democracies like the United States, where you can worship God on your own terms. These people are religious fanatics. And we've empowered them in a very dangerous way.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You've got to get on that stage if you're going to be able to make those points next week. And right now, you're about, I think .5 of 1 percent in our poll. I know you've had a petition to the RNC.
What do you want them to do?
Do you expect all 16 candidates to be on the stage?
GRAHAM: I think at this stage, it's best to let all of us have our voice. We've got some talented people. National polling is -- it's not testing that are going to wentuly -- eventually win the day. I think it's a mistake to do it based on national polls.
Here's what I -- I've learned from John McCain. You can be fifth in a four person race, come back and win, if you've got a message.
I am going to talk to people in Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina about the threats we face, why I'm the best qualified to be commander-in-chief and why Mr. Trump, while he says a lot of controversial and loud things, is not qualified to be commander-in-chief. And he cannot win an election that we can not afford to lose.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Lindsey Graham, thanks for joining us this morning.
The roundtable is next.
What do they make of Hillary's latest email he does?
The GOP jockeying ahead of that first debate next week.
And the nationwide battle for a $15 minimum wage.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: There is Hillary Clinton in Iowa, taking on those new questions about her emails. Government investigators say some contained classified information, fueling new demands from Congress and her campaign rivals.
ABC's Clinton correspondent, Cecilia Vega, reports on all the latest.
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CECILIA VEGA, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hillary Clinton firing back.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I am confident that I never sent nor received any information that was classified at the time it was sent and received.
VEGA: In Iowa, trying to put out the growing firestorm over EmailGate. The FBI now the latest Washington watchdog, called on to investigate.
Of the 55,000 emails Clinton turned over to the State Department, internal investigators for the intelligence community now say at least four, and potentially hundreds more, included classified national security information when they were sent over her private email account and home server.
Clinton saying she did nothing wrong.
CLINTON: I did not receive anything that was marked as classified.
VEGA: The investigators' referral to the Justice Department does not seek a criminal probe and does not target Clinton personally. The Justice Department has not yet decided how it will respond.
The controversy has not slowed down since March, when Clinton admitted that she used her private account for official business, she said, for convenience.
CLINTON: Looking back, it would have been better if I had simply used a second email account and carried a second phone.
VEGA: Now, Republicans on Capitol Hill fired up, once again demanding Clinton turn over her email server.
House Speaker John Boehner saying, "Her poor judgment has undermined our national security and it is time for her to finally do the right thing."
CLINTON: I have released...
VEGA: Clinton revealing that in October, she plans to publicly testify before a House committee investigating the Benghazi terrorist attacks.
For THIS WEEK, Cecilia Vega, ABC News, New York.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we are back with the Roundtable right now.
I want to go straight to Congressman Keith Ellison, Democrat.
These questions about the emails don't go away.
How much are you worried this is actually hurting her campaign?
ELLISON: Well, you know, I see this as one of those, you know, non-story stories. You know, she brought -- she gave up the emails. They, you know, the allegations earlier this week in the press turned out to be retracted and corrected. Now they're keeping with this thing.
I mean this is -- this poor woman has been dealing with Benghazi, all this stuff. To me, this is about Republicans trying to undermine her credibility. This is all campaign stuff, actually.
And I think that she's going to -- she's going to emerge from it and, you know, just as long as she keeps on answering the questions and, you know, and gives credible answers, which she has been doing, I think it's going to be fine.
STEPHANOPOULOS: This did begin, though, with independent government investigators making the referral.
Maggie Haberman, you're from "The New York Times." And the congressman just talked about this initial story that's ending up being walked back, the first story in "The Times" says this was a criminal referral. It turns out that's not the case.
And one of the things the Clinton campaign says is this is happening all the time. We're victimized by these huge headlines that don't -- aren't backed up by the story that's there.
MAGGIE HABERMAN, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Department of Justice sources told us and told several other media outlets that this was a criminal referral and then walked that back many, many hours later. So that answers that question.
She is not wrong in terms of the substance of the IG complaint that some of this is bureaucratic infighting over what's classified and what's not classified.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And whether it's classified after the fact (INAUDIBLE).
HABERMAN: Correct. Well, I mean the -- the IGs has argued it was classified at the time. And that sort of the issue here. The bottom line is, there was a referral made. There was a referral made about a -- a possible compromise of classified information.
It is now with the Department of Justice. And I think if you're Hillary Clinton, just none of this is an ideal situation. And at the end of the day, this is -- the email situation began with her use of email. And she has said I have answered all of the questions.
To the Congressman's point, she has not actually answered a lot of questions. She will have an opportunity to when she testifies in October. And I think that will go a long way to ending some of this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But George, the press is helping to drive the story. They shouldn't be part of the story, they should report the story.
And I think that given all she's had to go through, maybe we should wait before we just report any old kind of thing.
I think maybe you should admit that they've made a mistake here.
ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Why?
She's running for president. Everybody else running for president is...
ELLISON: She's using...
NAVARRO: -- subjected to incredible scrutiny, as well.
ELLISON: No, no, no. No, nobody more so than her. I mean she...
DOWD: Well...
ELLISON: -- this is -- this is 20 years -- this is 25 years she's been having to fight off these kind of attacks. And yet she keeps on becoming -- being resilient. I think she's going to come out of this just fine.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How does she end it?
DOWD: Well, I -- first of all, I think it's ironic that the Democrats and Hillary Clinton are attacking "The New York Times," as somehow that they're the enemy, when Republicans would line up first around that list of who's -- who "The New York Times" has...
(CROSSTALK)
DOWD: -- more often than not gone after.
(CROSSTALK)
DOWD: The second thing about Hillary Clinton, her huge biggest problem is all self-inflicted. It's all -- this is not a Republican conspiracy or "The New York Times" consiracy -- conspiracy. These are self-inflicted wounds that the Clintons and Hillary Clinton have done.
And she arrives at this race, people are beloved of her when she's not running for president. As soon as she runs for president, the questions start coming about can we trust her?
Do we know what she's doing?
And she still has never answered the question, why did she have to have a server that she did, that she had her own personal emails?
The only reason she did that was, for some reason, to keep things out of the public limelight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the only...
(CROSSTALK)
HABERMAN: I don't think -- I actually don't know that we know the answer to the why...
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: I will say this. If I was a Democrat, I'd be very nervous right now about putting all the eggs in that one basket, because you don't know how much there is there. And the questions keep coming up.
And I think, you know, I would say to my Democrat friends, folks, you have to handle this like the monarchy. She is your heir, but you need a spare.
So I'd say to them, keep Joe Biden's number pretty handy because I think it's very risky.
Go tell David Petraeus that mishandling classified emails is not a crime.
DOWD: She's going to be the Democratic nominee. But the problem the Democrats have, and they know this, and if you talk to folks in her campaign, they admit that she has a trust deficit problem.
What they go on to say is we can win without trust.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, let me show how...
DOWD: We can win in -- we can win...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- well, there was actually some polls out this week...
DOWD: We can win this race without trust.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- which go right to that point. In three swing states -- Iowa, Colorado and Virginia Quinnipiac Poll all show that Secretary Clinton's unfavorable 50 cent -- percent or above.
And Congressman Ellison, what was also shown in those polls, for the first time, she's losing to the top three Republican contenders in that poll. We know they're snapshots. We know it's early. But that is a flashing yellow light, isn't it?
ELLISON: Well, look, when she starts talking about debt-free college, when she starts talking about raising the pay of American workers, standing up for American women, who are trying to put food on the table every day, I mean that -- that's going to work.
You know why?
Because people are living that.
And we're earliest, you know, there's a lot of flash in the pan now, but when the real issues that Americans are facing get addressed by her and -- and Bernie Sanders and Mal -- O'Malley, I think that it's going to be very clear who's -- who's on whose side.
STEPHANOPOULOS: On that -- on that point, a lot of energy around the issue of the $15 minimum wage. This week, several states considering it. New York City saying fast food workers should get it...
ELLISON: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- over the next couple of years.
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Bernie Sanders talking about that on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we are saying today is that workers like Sandia (ph) should not be forced to work 70 hours a week and sacrifice their health.
I think that if you work 40 hours a week, you have a right not to be living in poverty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: A majority of Americans support an increase in the minimum wage. But "The New York Times" also asked about this idea of fast food chains paying workers $15 an hour. Sixty percent opposing that right there.
Matthew Dowd, there does seem to be a lot of energy behind this issue, but with some limits.
DOWD: Well, if Republicans were smart in my view, they would be for a living wage. The idea that they're advocates in keeping wages low thinking that's helpful for our economy and, basically they're justifying a position that they're taking on behalf of the United States Chamber of Commerce, not small businesses, not average people.
The base of the Republican Party are working-class whites. And any increase in the minimum wage is going to help that group. And so if I were a republican candidate for president, I would get out there and say, yes, of course we need a living wage. That's what capitalism is about and that's what we need to do.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Who's going to do it?
NAVARRO: I think you're going to see some get behind living wage. I think Rick Santorum has been behind a hike. But I think you're going to see some of them get behind having states decide. Because, for example, a state like New York is very different than a state like Alabama or even my state Florida. So, it's something that should be decided by the states. What makes sense for each economy.
ELLISON: I would love to be able to stand with conservative colleagues and say, let's raise the wages of the American people. You know, this is going to help the issue of racial justice, too. I mean, huge percentages of black and Latino people are making below the minimum wage. And I believe this is fueling part of the problems we've been seeing in urban America with issues around bad interactions between police and community.
I mean, you know, you've got this week we're talking about Sandra Bland and say her name, but last week, we were talking about Gray and Garner and all of this stuff. If you raise people's pay, give them a liveable wage, they are not going to have all these negative interactions.
DOWD: And George, if you want to cut the federal deficit, raise people's wages. This -- nobody that works for a corporation in America should be on public assistance. If you're a conservative Republican, raise the minimum wage and cut the federal deficit.
HABERMAN: Which is also just to the point back to the emails when you talk about issues that voters are going to care about. There is no question that her numbers have taken a hit. But we're all talking about this in a vacuum. We don't know who the Republican nominee is going to be and what they're going to say. And if they are hearing an issue that is basically keep wages stagnant as you're saying -- that's going to help.
NAVARRO: I'm just happy we're talking about anything that isn't Trump.
(LAUGHTER)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Up next, we're on the scene with President Obama and those massive crowds in Kenya after this from our ABC stations.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHENAOPOULOS: President Obama having a little fun on his trip in Kenya. Some dancing, a big dinner with the extended family, and moments ago wrapping up remarks to a huge crowd in Nairobi.
ABC's Linsey Davis is on the scene with the president. Good morning, Lindsay.
LINSEY DAVIS, ABC NEWS CORREPSONDENT: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) George, which means good morning in Swahili.
Not too long ago, President Obama addressed 4500 Kenyans in the sports arena, his message that this country is at the crossroads of peril and promise.
He spent quite a bit of time talking about the tremendous progress that the country has made, but also the need to have a more transparent democracy, to change the culture of corruption, the need to empower women and girls, and also saying that the U.S. is a partner in the fight against terrorism.
He was introduced by his half-sister Alma (ph). She picked him up here 30 years ago in her beat-up Volkswagen. The airline had lost his luggage. And he was surprised that someone at the airport actually recognized his last name.
But this time around, Obamamania.
While this is his fourth visit to the country, it's the first time an American president has visited, and as he described he is the first Kenyan-American to be U.S. president.
There was a brief moment of tension yesterday when he discussed gay rights saying that people should not be treated differently because of who they love. But Kenya President Uhuru Kenyatta was adamant that gay rights are a nonissue here in Kenya.
President Obama heads to Ethiopia later today -- George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK. Thank you, Linsey.
And before we go, more of our exclusive interview with Attorney General Loretta Lynch. Here's Pierre Thomas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THOMAS: From the day Loretta Lynch took office, it was clear she would have to confront race as an explosive and divisive issue. Just hours after her swaering in, parts of Baltimore were burning, unrest ignited by the death of another black man, Freddie Gray, after a rough ride in a police van.
Then, just a few weeks later, the unthinkable, massacre in a black church.
Were you shocked?
LYNCH: I don't know if I was shocked as so much disturbed and sadden.
THOMAS: But out of a hellish, hateful act, Lynch says she sees racial progress in a state with a polarizing past.
LYNCH: The example after Charleston, not just from the victims, but from the city and from the state, and really from the country, was one that said, we reject that type of thinking.
THOMAS: t the child of the south and daughter of a Baptist preacher, who grew up just a few miles away in North Carolina, said South Carolina was forced to heal old lingering wounds. The Confederate battle flag flying over the state capitol, chief among them.
LYNCH: Certainly people who expressed a positive view of it or historical view of the flag, had to concede that for so many other people it was a symbol of great pain and great division. And if you want to have it as a historical piece, I think a museum is the perfect place for it.
THOMAS: Race: clearly, there has been progress, South Carolina showed it aftermath of the killing there. You and I are sitting here, but race still remains a vexing issue. Why do you think there's still so much mistrust in some minority communities as it relates to police?
LYNCH: I think that we have a situation where many minority communities for so long have felt that law enforcement was coming in to essentially enforce laws against them, not to protect them.
THOMAS: According to Lynch, violent protest is never justified. But she suggested recent incidents, caught on tape, are forcing the country to confront the simmering frustrations of many minorities.
Recently, a black man in South Carolina repeatedly shot by a white police officer, including in the back, after a traffic stop.
Now, Sandra Bland, the black woman, dead after a failure to use a turn signal escalated into her going to jail.
LYNCH: I do think that what has been an important part of the debate in Ms. Bland's death has been the discussions that we have seen from community members and police leaders alike about the importance of training and deescalating incidents.
THOMAS: She suggested cases like Bland reinforce black anger.
LYNCH: I think that it highlights the concern of many in the black community, that a routine stop for many of our -- of the members of the black community is not handled with the same professionalism and courtesy that other people may get from the police.
THOMAS: You know, there are some who have been saying, if black folk would just follow the instruction of the police this wouldn't happen. Is that a fair assessment?
LYNCH: You know, I think every case is different.
THOMAS: Now, some police organizations have said they would like less scrutiny and more support from the Justice Department in recognizing the difficulties of their job?
LYNCH: Many police departments also feel frustrated. I think they feel they get the scrutiny and they get the complaints and the criticism and they don't get the support.
And I think it's a very, very important voice in this debate.
THOMAS: A heated, complicated debate that's ongoing.
For This Week, Pierre Thomas, ABC News, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks, Pierre.
That's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part your Sunday with us. Check out World News Tonight. And I'll see you tomorrow on GMA.