Transcript: Sens. McConnell and McCaskill

Oct. 25, 2009 — -- ABC NEWS, THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL AND SENATOR CLAIRE MCCASKILL.

SPEAKERS: GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST: ABC'S "THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS" OCTOBER 25, 2009

STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, and welcome to "This Week."

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SEN. HARRY REID, D-NEV.: I support a public option.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: New life for the public option. Is it back forgood?

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SEN. OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, R-MAINE: In terms of the public optionquestion, which I, you know, am opposed to...

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STEPHANOPOULOS: Putting the squeeze on CEOs.

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(UNKNOWN): Let the these companies do what they do best.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: Will it work or wreck the banks?

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(UNKNOWN): I try to balance both sides.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: The White House war with Fox.

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DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT: It's really notnews. It's pushing a point of view.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: And Cheney's war with the White House.

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DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:President Obama now seems afraid to make a decision.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: We cover it all this morning with the latestfrom Congress in exclusive interviews with the Republican Leader MitchMcConnell and Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill.

Plus, debate and analysis in our expanded powerhouse roundtable,with George Will, Obama ally John Podesta from the Center for AmericanProgress, Fox News contributor Laura Ingraham, Cynthia Tucker from theAtlanta Journal-Constitution and the Washington bureau chief ofBloomberg News, Al Hunt.

And as always, the Sunday Funnies.

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CONAN O'BRIEN, TALK SHOW HOST: One of the top-selling costumesthis Halloween is the vampire version of President Obama calledBaracula. Not so popular, Congressman Barney Frankenstein.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: Is this the endgame on health reform? Willanyone win the battle between the White House and Fox News? And hasthe attorney general effectively ended an era of prohibition with hisannouncement this week on medical marijuana? The roundtable's righthere to tackle all that and more today, including some breaking newsout of Baghdad. More than 100 killed and 500 injured in twin suicidebombings aimed at government buildings right in the heart of the Iraqicapital.

But let's begin with by checking with both sides in the Senate.We have Democrat Claire McCaskill and the Republican leader of theSenate, Mitch McConnell.

And Senator McConnell, let me begin with you. Your counterpart,the Democratic leader in the Senate, Harry Reid, has been working thephones for the last several days. He believes he's a day or two awayfrom getting the 60 votes he needs to break any Republican filibusterof health care reform. Is he right, and does this mean that healthcare is going to pass this year?

MCCONNELL: Well, I think we'll have to wait and see. We do knowthat we had the first vote in the health care debate last week, and itwas a bipartisan majority, 100 percent of Republicans and 13 Democratsagreeing that we should not borrow a quarter of a trillion dollars atthe outset. In other words, not send a bill to our grandchildren, inthe very first vote of the health care debate. So we'll see how itunfolds.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So much of this is centered right now, so muchof the debate is centered right now on this issue of the publicoption. The latest iteration that Senator Reid is working on is thathe would set up a national program, but states would have the abilityto opt out of the program, and it comes as the New York Times isreporting this morning that small businesses are going to face anincrease in their health insurance premiums of 15 percent next year,15 percent on average for small businesses. Given that, doesn't itmake sense that there be a public health insurance option to competewith the private insurers?

MCCONNELL: No, it doesn't make any sense at all. In fact, Ithink 100 percent of Republicans have indicated they don't thinkhaving the government in the insurance business is a good idea.

What we do know about this bill, though, George, aside fromwhether or not there's a government insurance company in it or not, wedo know it's half a trillion dollars in Medicare cuts. We know it's$400 billion in tax increases on individuals and businesses. And weknow the CBO says that insurance premiums for everybody will go up,that's 85 percent of Americans who already have health insurance.

So, wholly aside from the debate over whether the government getsinto the insurance business, the core of the proposal is a bill thatthe American public clearly does not like.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It comes, though, at a time when also it appearsthat your party is facing more political trouble that you have had inyears. We had a new poll out of ABC News this week showing that only20 percent of Americans now call themselves Republicans. When weasked the question, who do you trust to take the country in the rightdirection? 49 percent of the country said President Obama. Only 19percent said they trust congressional Republicans to take the countryin the right direction. If only 19 percent of the country believesthat you can take them in the right direction, isn't that a signyou're doing something wrong?

MCCONNELL: Look, the Gallup poll, which is out there every day,the oldest poll and the most respected poll in America, asked thequestion that really makes a difference, and that is the question, ifthe election were held tomorrow, who would you be more likely to votefor, the Republican candidate for Congress or the Democratic candidatefor Congress? Last November, not surprisingly, my party was down 12.Two weeks ago, we were down 2. So the issue is not so much whetherthey're identifying with Republicans or Democrats, but how would theyvote. And I think you sense over in Virginia, for example, thecandidate for governor on the Democratic ticket in Virginia iscomplaining about the atmosphere in Washington causing him problems.

MCCONNELL: I think if you just want to talk about the politicsof all of this, George, I think it is clearly not working for theadministration or for the Democratic majority.

STEPHANOPOULOS: At a time when only 19 percent of the countrybelieves that congressional Republicans are taking the country in theright direction?

MCCONNELL: I think something like 22 percent like Congress, andit's run by the Democrats. I think people are disaffected right now.But the fundamental question, George, is not whether they aredisaffected. It's how will they vote, and we'll have an early testcase of that over in the Virginia governor's race here in just acouple of weeks.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you don't believe that the Republican Partyin Congress has to make any course corrections right now?

MCCONNELL: Well, we're going to offer alternatives. We havebeen all year. We're going to offer alternatives on the health caredebate. The American people will have a chance to see that there is achoice, and that will be important going into next year's election.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And finally, do you believe in the end thatyou're going to be successful, or is the president going to get whathe wants this year?

MCCONNELL: Well, look, I'm not going to predict the outcome.What I do know is that all the nervousness is on the Democratic side.You saw that last week, and with 13 Democratic defections on thiseffort, to do this Medicare reimbursement issue without paying for it,by sending the bill to our grandchildren, we know there is nervousnessamong Democrats over this increasing view that Congress is acting likea teenager with their parents' credit card, not worried about who'sgoing to have to pay the bill.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Before I let you go, let me ask you a questionabout the swine flu. The president declared late Friday night anational emergency to give the federal government more power to dealwith the spread of the H1N1 virus. Are you comfortable with thatdeclaration? And is there anything more Congress can or should bedoing?

MCCONNELL: Well, the administration tells us that we've giventhem all the authority and all the money they need. So if they needanything additionally from Congress, I know we'll be happy to provideit, on a totally bipartisan basis.

STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Senator McConnell, thanks very much for yourtime this morning. Let me now bring in Democrat Claire McCaskill fromMissouri. Senator McCaskill, I knew the second that swine flu cameout of my mouth instead of H1N1, you'd be down -- you'd be jumpingdown my throat, so I apologize in advance for that...

MCCASKILL: I was thinking about my hog farmers.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I knew you were.

On this national emergency, we do know that your hog farmers,though, are going to be coming in for more scrutiny. Do you agreewith Senator McConnell that the Congress is prepared to give thepresident anything more he asks for, and do you believe specificallyis there anything more he should be doing right now?

MCCASKILL: No, I think that they've done a very effectivecoordinated effort within the Obama administration on the H1N1 virus.I think we are better prepared for this than, frankly, most of usanticipated when this surfaced a few months ago, and I think Congressis ready to give him any additional help. I think everyone -- one ofthe reasons we have so many more people going to the doctor for flusymptoms is because we've done such a good job with public awareness.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's turn to the issues -- the broader issue ofhealth care. You heard Senator McConnell there. You were one ofseveral Democrats to actually vote against this plan to relax the cutsto -- Medicare cuts to doctors this week, because it wasn't paid for.So how are you going to solve that as this goes forward in broaderhealth care reform?

MCCASKILL: Well, I think what we'll do is we'll do a one-yearfix that's paid for, and continue to work on ways that we can bring inthese costs and make sure everything is paid for. But I think thatMitch McConnell is busy on politics instead of policy. I don't thinkthat the vote last week should be any signal to America that we havelost the will to move forward and fix the ridiculously difficult andexpensive health care dilemma we face in this country. And frankly,you can't be a deficit hawk -- you can't be a serious deficit hawk andnot realize we've got to do something. Just continuing to do whatwe're doing now is going to put health care out of reach of mostAmericans within a decade.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, you say you're only going to do a one-year extension of this Medicare, of these Medicare payments todoctors. I assume (ph) that's going to make the American MedicalAssociation pretty unhappy. Are you certain you're still going tohave their support for the broader reform if you do that?

MCCASKILL: Well, I mean, everyone is, you know, what's reallyhappening right now is there is a lot of misinformation out there.And as people learn more about what this insurance exchange is and thepublic option, they begin to realize that this is not an all-encompassing government plan. In fact, the only people, George, thathave to participate in the insurance exchange are members of Congress.We have written all the bills that require members of Congress andtheir staffs to go to the insurance exchange to buy insurance. Andthat's where we hope some kind of public alternative will be, in orderto bring down costs.

So, I think that the hospitals are worried. The doctors areworried. The insurance companies are worried. The pharmaceuticalcompanies are worried. Some Americans are worried. That's becausewe're trying to fix something that's complicated, that has broadimplications.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It's also...

MCCASKILL: I think, though, that the devil we know is much worsethan what we're proposing to do.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It's also because of a little bit of lack ofclarity on what exactly the Congress is going to do, and I want tozero in on this public option because you've had all these behind-the-scenes negotiations right now. What exactly is Senator Reid talkingabout on the public option right now?

STEPHANOPOULOS: The way it's been described to me is that youwould have a national plan, but it would be a national plan thatdoesn't impose Medicare rates or Medicare plus 5 percent, but one hasthe power to negotiate with the private insurance companies, but itwould also give any individual state the right to say, no, I don'twant to be part of the national plan.

Is that what he's calling for now and is it something you cansupport?

MCCASKILL: I -- I think what we're going to end up with ishaving votes on a number of choices: the ability for states to opt into some kind of not-for-profit plan; the ability for states to opt outof some kind of not-for-profit plan to compete with the privateinsurance companies on this exchange; and then the option to trigger anot-for-profit plan if the insurance companies don't manage to bringdown costs within a certain period of time.

I frankly have not drawn a line in the sand. I support thepublic option. I'll vote for the public option. But I'm focused onthese deficit costs, on how can we reconfigure the way we pay forhealth care in a way that, long term, will begin to have an impact onthese deficits that are really going to threaten the security of ournation in the next 10 to 20 years, if we don't get serious about it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You say you haven't drawn a line in the sand,but the only Republican who's voted for the bill so far, OlympiaSnowe, has. She was with our friend Al Hunt, here, just the otherday, and he asked her -- I want to show this -- whether she wouldaccept anything but this trigger option that you talked about, whichwould be imposed if the insurance companies don't do their job.

Here it was.

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HUNT: You wouldn't accept any public option other than a trigger-- is that a...

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SNOWE: That -- that's -- that's correct. Yes, I haven't thoughtof any other calculation, but a public option at the forefront reallydoes put the government in a disproportionate position with respect tothe industry.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: Now, you suggested that she might be gettingthat as an option to vote for later on, but it's not the option thatSenator Reid is working on right now.

Are you worried that you and your Democratic colleagues might bedriving away the only Republican who seems inclined to support thiseffort?

MCCASKILL: Well, sure. I think -- you know, I'd be less thanhonest if I didn't say all of us were concerned about making sure weget the votes to move forward. But I remain pretty optimistic.

I think, as -- one of the reasons, I think, the poling hasimproved for what we're doing in Washington is that it's openenrollment period right now. And so many people are looking, onceagain, at another year where they're not going to get a raise becauseall of their raise is going to go to increased health care costs.

So I think that -- and keep in mind, if we get some of the moremoderate senators like Ben Nelson and Evan Bayh and Joe Lieberman inthe fold, it would not surprise me to see the few remaining moderateRepublicans come along.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, bottom line, you believe this does get donethis year and it does have a public option?

MCCASKILL: I think it gets done this year and I think we end upwith some kind of opportunity to go to a public not-for-profit optionamong many private options that people that currently don't haveinsurance -- and keep in mind, not everybody can even go to thisexchange and buy insurance with any kind of subsidy. This is going tobe a fairly limited number of people -- 25 million to 30 million arethe estimates -- that would even be on this insurance exchange.

By and large, most of this country is going to continue to gettheir health insurance through their employer.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So it is all about option this morning. SenatorMcCaskill, thank you very much. Let me bring in the roundtable.

MCCASKILL: It's all about options.

(LAUGHTER)

STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, let me bring in the roundtable right now.