Hayden's Senate Hang-Up

May 14, 2006 — -- In an exclusive appearance on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., said, "I don't know everything that the NSA has done," referring to the intelligence agency which has reportedly gathered countless phone records of American citizens as a part of the effort the war on terror, and arguing, "but we need to know exactly what the program is about, the American people need to be assured that their government is following the law."

Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., also appearing exclusively on "This Week," agreed that the program may be useful, but not necessarily legal.

"Technology has probably gone beyond our existing laws," he said, though he blamed the Bush administration for skirting the law rather than asking Congress to amend it.

"They go ahead without any Congressional oversight," Biden said. "They basically say, 'Trust us,' and this administration has a history of excess. We just don't know what they're doing."

Both senators agreed that the issue will be at the forefront of CIA director nominee Gen. Michael Hayden's forthcoming Senate confirmation hearings. Hayden has been at the helm of the controversial NSA surveillance program that included domestic wiretaps and surveying U.S. phone records provided by a number of major telecommunications firms.

"There's no question that his confirmation is going to depend upon the answers he gives," Hagel said. But, Hagel was quick to defend Hayden, contending, "It was Gen. Hayden who insisted on constitutional protections [to the program]."

Biden agreed with his colleague and fellow member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

"Hayden has pushed back," Biden said. But he added, "He is still a general. His bosses are the president and vice president, among others."

On the controversial subject of immigration reform, both senators looked toward the president's Monday address on the subject with skepticism. The president is expected to endorse the deployment of the National Guard to patrol the U.S.-Mexican border, to which Hagel said, "That's not the role of our military. That's not the role of our National Guard. That's a short-term fix, and I'm not sure it's a wise fix."

"That's not their role," Hagel added. "I'll listen to the president [but] I'm skeptical."

Biden also voiced skepticism.

"What we should do is move on and pass the immigration bill," he said. "We have stretched these men and women [in the military] so thin because of the bad mistakes done by the civilians in the military, I wonder how they're going to be able to do it."

Hagel also took issue with House Republicans who have labeled parts of his immigration proposals as outright "amnesty." The Republican senator said his Senate bill did not grant unconditional amnesty to the some 12 million illegal immigrants currently in the country. Hagel challenged his House colleagues to "give me an alternative as to how you fix this problem."

Despite broad disagreements both between parties and within them, Hagel put the chances of passing immigration reform out of Congress prior to the midterm elections this November at "50-50."

Biden placed the odds in a similar area, but offered cautious optimism: "I think it's more likely than not."

George Stephanopoulos's entire interview with Sens. Biden and Hagel can be viewed at "This Week's" Web page at www.abcnews.com.