TRANSCRIPT: Sen. John Kerry Discusses Obama Endorsement

December 13, 2007— -- STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, everyone.

Since his surprise loss to Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire,Barack Obama has picked up a string of high-powered endorsements,topped by our headliner this morning, the Democrats' nominee in 2004,John Kerry. Welcome back to "This Week."

KERRY: Glad to be here.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you have longstanding political ties to theClintons. Of course, you picked John Edwards as your running mate in2004. Why Barack Obama now?

KERRY: Because I think the times demand real change. I knowthat word's getting overused, but it's a reality.

I believe that Barack Obama has the ability to be atransformational leader.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What does that mean?

KERRY: It means that there are big shifts, tectonic shifts inAmerican politics. Whether it was Reagan, Kennedy, Roosevelt, thereare moments where America is ready to move in a different direction.

I believe this is one of those moments.

If you go back, George, to the end of my campaign at FaneuilHall, I talked of the conversation I had with President Bush at theend. And I warned the president, and I said this at that moment, ofthe division in our country, the desperate need of people for unityand of trying to come together in a different way.

And I really believed that as a result, maybe there would be amoment of healing for the country, of a better politics.

It didn't happen. It's gotten worse. This city is worse than Ihave ever seen it in all the years that I've been here.

And I think we need a fundamental break with the past.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And Hillary Clinton can't be that fundamentalbreak?

KERRY: Well, she might be able to be, but I believe that BarackObama has the better opportunity to be. I think that he bringssomething special to this race.

First of all, leadership -- and I'm confident your next guest,Newt Gingrich, will echo this -- requires the ability to inspire, theability to create a movement, the ability to mobilize people aroundideas. I think Barack Obama is showing the ability to do that and hasshown the ability to do that.

Remember, when Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Bill, thepen he gave, the first pen, was to Martin Luther King.

In 1970, when I was first involved in Earth Day, something somepeople scoff at today, but 20 million Americans came out on one singleday and said, we're tired of living next to toxic waste sites. We'retired of seeing the Cuyahoga River burn. And that movement thentargeted 12 congressmen -- they were labeled the Dirty Dozen -- someof them were beaten. And the result was, we passed the Clean Air Act,we passed the Clean Water Act, the Safe Drinking Water Act, the MarineMammal Protection Act. We created an Environmental Protection Agency,which a president, Nixon, was forced to sign into law.

I believe that Barack Obama has the ability to inspire hope andto -- to find our aspirations as a nation in a way that reaches notonly Americans, but reaches the world.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You made an artful reference to Martin LutherKing and Lyndon Johnson. Senator Clinton got into a little bit oftrouble this week where she seemed to downplay Martin Luther King'scontribution at the expense -- I mean, enhance Lyndon Johnson'sreputation at the expense of Martin Luther King. Here's what shesaid.

And yesterday, she said that the Obama campaignwas distorting those words. She blamed the Obama campaign.

Does the Obama campaign owe Senator Clinton anapology?

KERRY: George, I don't know what the back/forth has been, andI'm not here to get in between, you know, the sort of two campaignsand how they're interpreting that.

History knows that it was those folks crossing thatbridge at Selma and facing those dogs and those batons and bloodiedheads. History knows that it was kids getting on the buses in thefreedom rides and going down to the south, people being blown up inBirmingham and dozens of other places in the south.

History knows that it was the courageous, non-violent movementinspired by Martin Luther King that forced politicians to confrontthese issues, just as it has been for women, for the environment, forchildren, for a host of other issues. Yes, it takes a president,obviously, in the end to do that.

I believe Barack Obama has the ability to bring both of thosequalities, inspire and be a president. And I think there's a reason,George, that Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Tim Johnson of South Dakotaand Janet Napolitano of Arizona and Tim Kaine of Virginia andothers...

STEPHANOPOULOS: All Republican states.

KERRY; All Republican states, red states, difficult states, aresaying we believe Barack Obama can unite, can create this fresh andnew beginning.

The other thing -- I look around at our country. I came in topublic service to try to make a difference, like most of us. I see mycolleague, Ted Kennedy who does a superb job of leading on theseissues on the Health and Human Services Committee, frustrated,struggling to deal with an education system we still know isn'tworking.

Who better than Barack Obama to talk about -- and just by hisperson signify to the world the difference that it means to get anopen door to a good school? Who better than Barack Obama to talk toyoung blacks in America or disaffected young people or -- anybody, andsort of say, you see what happens if you have a dream and you pursueit and you work at it?

I was just in South Africa. And I picked up the newspaper oneday and there was a big headline on the second page, "Obama Says" thefollowing. They have a huge issue there of credibility of theirleadership and the issue of AIDS. I personally believe, having been20 years, 24 years on the Foreign Relations Committee, that if BarackObama can say things to African-American leaders that a whitepresident just can't say....

STEPHANOPOULOS: But a lot of...

KERRY: ... and I think there's a power in that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But a lot of Democrats are worried he just can'tget there. And one of the arguments the Clinton campaign is making --you say that he -- one of the reasons you support him is because hewants to end the politics of swiftboating. One of the arguments ofthe Clinton camp is that he will fall victim to the politics ofswiftboating, that he's unknown, untested, not tough enough.

KERRY: No, he won't, nor will any Democrat ever again. Andyou're looking at the person who understands that better than anybody.We made the miscalculation that we had answered the lies enough. Theywere answered. They were answered, contrary to myth on day one,instant one. Counter press conference.

And the mainstream media wrote the truth. But unfortunately,when lies are put out on television sufficiently and unansweredsufficiently, they can make a difference. That will never, everhappen again, not to Barack Obama...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though Barack Obama is brand new?

KERRY: ... not to Hillary Clinton, incidentally, either.Whoever our nominee is, I intend to fight like crazy, and I will leadthe effort personally.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But there's a difference, isn't there? SenatorClinton is a known quantity. That's one of the arguments her campmakes. Barack Obama is not. And he'll be...

KERRY: Well, I think Barack Obama knows and the campaign knowsthat that definition process has to begin immediately. And any effortto define him will be countered immediately, and he will have themoney to do that immediately. That's one of the differences.

We were stuck in the federal financing. He is not. And he willhave the ability to be able to redefine himself immediately. But comeback to the larger issue here. You know, look at what's happening inWashington. I mean, this place is just in gridlock and stuck.

Barack Obama stood up and passed one of the most important -- thesingle biggest ethics reform package that we have passed. He did thatimmediately. On legislative record, yes, he's a young man, but he'solder than Bill Clinton when Bill Clinton became president.

He's older than John Kennedy. He's older than Teddy Roosevelt.He's only three years younger than Abraham Lincoln, who lost his seatfor the House after serving only two years, lost the race for theSenate, lost the race for the Illinois legislature and became ourgreatest president.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And he has also been making the argument thatjudgment is also key, especially on the Iraq war. He says he wasagainst it from the start. President Clinton -- we all saw it thisweek -- was out saying it's a fairy tale that Barack Obama's record isvery different from Senator Clinton's on this score because he's votedfor the funding because he said basically at your convention that he'snot sure how he would have voted.

KERRY: Well, no, that's -- I beg to differ with you. If youtake the complete quote of what he said at my convention, he said, "Ibelieve it is my judgment the case has not been made."

STEPHANOPOULOS: What he said exactly was..

STEPHANOPOULOS: ... intelligence reports, what would I havedone? I don't know. What I know is that, from my vantage point, thecase was not made.

KERRY: Correct.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And that's one of the quotes that PresidentClinton was referring to.

KERRY: Well, not only did he say the case has not been made,which was a very diplomatic way of saying John Edwards and John Kerrymade a mistake, at a convention where he was about to speak and I wasthe nominee -- so, in effect, he showed considerable diplomatic tactand he managed to duck you guys because you might have had a storythat my keynote speaker was, in fact, in a different position, whichhe was.

He spoke at an anti-war rally of some several thousand people, inwhich he talked about not being against all wars but being against awar where it didn't make sense and the case had not been made.

So I don't think there's any question but that Barack Obama had aposition against the war. And he made it clear...

STEPHANOPOULOS: How about the argument, though, that he thencame into the Senate and voted for funding?

KERRY: And I have said, since then, George, that that vote was amistake. I believe it was a mistake because we gave power to thepresident that he abused.

Now, you can make arguments about what the vote was at the momentyou made it. But, in the end, it turned out to be a mistake and thecountry now knows that, overwhelmingly. And Barack Obama had theright judgment.

I think that we also measure a life. I mean, in the end, BarackObama has more legislative experience than Hillary Clinton, directly,because he served eight years in the Illinois legislature and, now,three years in the Senate. Hillary Clinton's had one term, plus thisyear and a bit, since then.

So you measure the whole life. And I think, when you measureBarack Obama's life, a guy who went to Columbia as an undergraduate,and his daddy didn't help get him into an Ivy League school; he wentto Harvard Law School, became the first African-American president ofthe Harvard Law Review, which, as you know, is no small task.

He goes on from there; instead of going to Wall Street to makemillions, he goes to Chicago to help organize in the streets. He's acivil rights lawyer. He stood up and helped change the death penaltysituation in Illinois. He fought to get children tax credits.

I think he's had the right instincts. I think he had the rightinstinct to say, this is the moment for America to change and to takethe risk and decide to run for president.

And look at what he's achieved, against all of the forces arrayedagainst him. And he is now attracting people like Ben Nelson ofNebraska, Governor Janet Napolitano. I don't think that'sinsignificant.

STEPHANOPOULOS: One final question. You made a strong case forSenator Obama.

One question about Senator Edwards, because there are many herewho say there's bad blood between you. Your former strategist, BobShrum, wrote that you were queasy about Senator Edwards when youactually met with him to talk about the vice presidency, after he toldyou a story about a promise he made to his dead son, Wade, a story hesaid he had never told before.

He then went on to write, Bob Shrum did...

KERRY: George, can I stop you right there?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, let me show -- let me show you this...

KERRY: I know, but it's just not worth it. It's a waste oftime, because those kinds of Washington books and Washington storiesare part of the problem of what's going on here.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, is the story true or not?

KERRY: It doesn't matter.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Why not?

KERRY: Because, just like the Des Moines Register, that made thedecision, having endorsed Edwards four years ago, they endorsedHillary Clinton this year. Because this is a different moment. Thisis a different time with different demands for our country.

And I'm here supporting Barack Obama, not against Hillary, notagainst John Edwards, either of whom would take this country and fightto take this country in the right direction.

It's my belief that Barack Obama has the best chance of beingtransformative, of confronting the issues, of building the movement,of reaching out to the world to change America's perception in theworld, and that he has the best opportunity to try to change ourreputation and restore our moral authority on a global basis, fasterthan anyone.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I take you at your word. And this is just asimple yes/no question. Is that story true? And is it true that hepromised you that he would not run in 2008?

KERRY: I have not read precisely how it was reflected. I havenot even -- I have not read it. And I can't tell you it's been...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that's why I wanted to show it. Hesaid...

KERRY: Well, it's a waste of time. It's a Washington deal.Let's deal with much more important things than the gossip of a book.

STEPHANOPOULOS: This was direct charges that he made...

KERRY: Well, it doesn't matter, George.

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you just don't want to comment?

KERRY: I don't want to comment. I think it's a ridiculous wasteof time.

STEPHANOPOULOS: OK. Senator Kerry, thanks very much.

KERRY: Thank you. Thanks.