'This Week' Transcript: Brown, Corker, Gibbs

Dec. 28, 2008 — -- ABC'S "THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS"

TAPPER: Good morning, everyone. George Stephanopoulos is takinga well deserved vacation this week.

Joining us this morning from Cleveland, Democratic SenatorSherrod Brown of Ohio, and from Chattanooga, Republican Senator BobCorker of Tennessee.

Of course, gentlemen, the big story is the economy, and we'll getto that in a second. But first, for the second day in a row, Israelis launching air raids into Gaza as a response to Hamas violating thefragile cease-fire and firing rockets into southern Israel. The deathtoll so far is the largest in this conflict in decades. About 280killed, more than 600 wounded. Hamas is now calling for a thirdintifidah.

Senator Corker, you're a member of the Senate Foreign RelationsCommittee. Are you at all concerned that these Israeli strikes aredisproportionate or will ultimately hurt the cause of peace in theregion?

CORKER: Well, look, certainly I'm concerned about the conflictitself. This is the largest, as you mentioned, in casualties we'vehad in two decades there, and I think the Palestinian government hasactually condemned Hamas.

So far, certainly all of us -- our hearts and prayers go out topeople on both sides, and certainly especially the civilians who havebeen harmed in the Gaza area. But mostly, it's been confined topeople who are part of the security forces for Hamas, and certainlyall of us want to see an end to this conflict and some long-term peacesettlement actually occur there.

TAPPER: Senator Brown, Israel is now talking about sendingground troops. They're calling up the reservists. Is this a goodidea?

BROWN: I'm not sure it's a good idea. I mean, Israel certainlyhas the right to self-defense, of course. Hamas has not recognizedIsrael's right to exist. What Hamas has done by shooting its missilesinto Israel has been condemned, as Senator Corker said, condemned bythe Palestinian Authority and so many others.

But I'm hopeful that with a new president -- you know, you lookat President Bush is now in a petty weakened state, and countriesaround the world know that. I'm hopeful that as this transitioncomes, as we look to January, that strong presidential leadership canmake a difference here.

TAPPER: All right. Turning to the economy. In this morning'sWashington Post, incoming Obama economic adviser Larry Summers writesthat, quote, "in this crisis, doing too little poses a greater threatthan doing too much." The Obama team is working with Congress,pushing them to have an economic stimulus package of perhaps as muchas $850 billion on President-elect Obama's desk by inauguration day.

Senator Brown, how big should this package be? What number areyou looking for?

BROWN: Well, I'm not looking for a number today. You know, asthis -- as we get more and more -- as we see more and more how thiseconomy is going, that number continues to increase, that economists,conservative and liberal economists alike, are calling for it. It wasoriginally a few hundred billion, then it was $500, now it's a biggernumber than that.

When you see what's happened with consumer spending, at Christmasespecially, Christmas sales, holiday sales, and you understand that 70percent of the economy is all about consumer spending, we need a realstimulus to get people to spend money. And that means putting moneyin infrastructure, water and sewer.

I held around Ohio about 130 roundtables in all 88 counties inthe last couple of years, and one of the things I hear everywhere,mostly from economic development people, is that the federalgovernment doesn't do what it used to do with water and sewer systems,and if we don't invest in water and sewer, we can't do the kind oflong-term economic development and job growth we need.

So it's not just shovel-ready projects that are ready to go nowthat will create jobs. It's also green jobs, and it's also buildingfor the future. So when you do economic stimulus, it really needs tolook at what kinds of jobs it's going to create, not just immediately,but two years, five years, 10 years down the road.

TAPPER: Senator Corker, you voted against the last stimuluspackage, which was a relatively paltry $152 billion. How much are youwilling to spend here?

CORKER: Well, the last stimulus package was silly. It had noeffect and I certainly voted against it.

I think at the end of the day, the biggest thing we can do still-- and I know that every president during an economic downturn has tofeel like a package is forthcoming, and we hope that it's productive.The minimum requirement ought to be that it does no harm.

But still, the biggest thing we can do -- and what I'm seeinghere in my own state -- is get the credit markets functioning so thatlocal banks are lending money to small businesses that create the jobsthat all of us care so much about.

So I'm not looking at any number. Certainly I hope that whateverwe do is transparent, I hopes it goes through the regular committeeprocess, I hope we have an opportunity to see the effect. Andcertainly, anything that's done in a stimulus package ought to bethose kinds of things that are productive and move us ahead and arenot just throwing money out in order to say that we've done something.

So I'm concerned about the size of it. You know, the numbersthat have been thrown out are actually larger in today's dollars thanthe entire interstate system that was built 50 or 60 years ago. Sowhatever we do, again, let's make sure that it's productive, itactually consists of things that need to be done, and actually moveour economy ahead.

And let's remember the backdrop. A year ago, we were concernedabout the huge federal deficit that we have. We still have theMedicare and Social Security issue to deal with.

So -- and let me mention one other thing, the retail numbers.There's actually to me a silver lining there, and that is that we havecitizens in this country that have taken on far too much debt. Whatwe saw during the retail, this last retail cycle was people wereactually saving money.

There's going to have to be a good deal of that for our citizensto get back in sync, if you will, with incomes versus debt. And so,we can expect that some of that is going to occur.

Obviously, what we hope any stimulus will do is sort of keep usfrom having a harsh cycle. So again, I think the credit markets arestill the biggest key. That to me is the 90 percent issue. Anythingelse to me is much smaller as it relates to actually dealing with thiseconomic cycle we're in right now.

TAPPER: We'll get to the credit markets in a second, and thenthe $700 billion that you both voted for. But first, just on thestimulus package, a few days ago, Vice President-elect Joe Biden saidthis about the stimulus package.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT JOSEPH R. BIDEN JR.: I know it's theChristmas season, but President-elect Obama and I are absolutely,absolutely determined that this economic recovery package will notbecome a Christmas tree. Every dollar will be closely watched to makesure it's being used in an effective manner. We'll spend what we needto turn this economy around, and no more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: No Christmas tree, no pork or earmarks in this bill, butper President-elect Obama's request, the nation's mayors have puttogether a list of what they call shovel-ready projects. You talkedabout that a second ago, Senator Brown. Some of them might look anawful lot like pork to the average voter. For instance, in Akron,Ohio, Senator Brown, a request for $14 million to construct a 100-roomhotel next to the convention and visitors bureau there. That wouldcreate 25 jobs. And about 45 minutes from you, Senator Corker, in thecity of Cleveland, Tennessee, a town of only 37,000 people, they want$10 million to construct an airport, even though they're already lessthan an hour from the Chattanooga airport.

Senator Corker, you talked about this needs to be projects thatneeds to be done. Are these worthy projects? What should thestandard be for Congress to allocate money?

CORKER: Well, I think that's where it's really tough. Look, youknow, Cleveland is very close to us here. They, you know, to me,those type of projects, whatever they are, ought to maintain whateverfederal match is necessary.

What we don't need to do -- I think the worst idea that I'veheard put forth so far is just straight grants to cities and states.There are cities and states out that are having difficulty seekingfinancing, and helping them borrow money possibly through -- I knowthe auction rate facilities have been shut down for some time. Manymunicipalities access that from the standpoint of funding.

But again, straight grants to cities and states to me are exactlythe wrong thing to do. We need to keep the matches in place. Itneeds to be the kind of thing -- look, if the city of Cleveland iswilling to put up their share and this actually fits within the FAAground rules, fine. But again, causing projects to happen thatwouldn't happen otherwise is not what we ought to be doing.

TAPPER: Senator Brown, I want to turn to the money allocated forWall Street. This month, the Government Accountability Office issueda report on that $700 billion in funds, expressing concerns about thelack of oversight.

ABC News business unit asked 16 of the banks that have receivedbillions from the Treasury Department. Only one bank was able topoint to a specific example of a recent loan. And not one of the 16would disclose how much they're paying in bonuses to executives.

Are you concerned, at all, about this money? And what can you doabout it?

BROWN: Well, it's outrageous, I think, how Treasury hasinvested, if you will -- spent this $350 billion of the $700 billion,so far, on the -- with little accountability, even though Congressvery specifically called for accountability in these -- in thedistribution of these dollars.

There is still too much -- there is still money going intoexecutive bonuses, into dividends.

The money has not been accounted for. It made the auto situationmuch more difficult because people -- it really poisoned the well forgovernment involvement, anyway.

So my view on this is, with a new secretary of the Treasury, thatwe're going to see a -- we're going to see a very different release ofthis money. We're going to see more ties to requirements that thismoney unfreeze credit, as Senator Corker suggested a minute ago.

That, coupled with what we need to do with the stimulus package,is what, over time, is going to get this economy going.

And let me -- let me -- a couple of real quick comments on yourlast question to Senator Corker on the stimulus package. I -- part ofit needs to be a middle-class tax cut to put money into the economy,to unleash consumer spending.

And part of it is -- you mentioned those projects in Cleveland,Tennessee and Akron, Ohio. Every one of these projects -- this is notgoing to be a bunch -- this can't be pork. It can't bee seen as aChristmas tree, as Vice President-elect Biden says.

It needs to be money, one, that will -- investment that willbring job growth, not jobs to build that project itself. It needs to be in categories, like the combined sewage overflowsituation in my state and all over the country, where these water andsewer systems are old and really are a threat to public health, andthey will create long-term jobs, if you invest the way that you needto.

That's not pork; it's not earmarks. It's categories ofassistance that the states need.

We also will put significant money into Medicaid, because thereare people particularly hurting, with this economy, in food banks,food stamps, Medicaid, extension of unemployment, which Congress didearlier.

All of this will put money into people's pockets that they willspend, increasing consumer spending. And even though we are not atthe worst part of this recession yet, according to President-electObama and most economists, it will set the stage for longer-termeconomic growth.

TAPPER: OK. Unfortunately, that's all the time we have thismorning.

Senator Corker, before we go, we know that residents of yourstate are experiencing a huge environmental disaster with the spill ofthat coal ash. Our thoughts and prayers are with them.

Senators Corker and Brown, thanks for joining us, and happy NewYear to you both.

CORKER: Thank you.

BROWN: Thanks, and to you.

CORKER: Thank you.

TAPPER: For Robert Gibbs, life has been a perennial campaign,usually standing behind or at Mr. Obama's side as an adviser andspokesman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GIBBS: How's everyone doing tonight?

TAPPER (voice over): That's about to change. The 37-year-oldAlabaman will soon become the internationally known face of the nextadministration, standing at this podium under the harsh daily glare ofTV lights.

I talked exclusively with Gibbs earlier this week and had some ofhis predecessors offer advice.

But we began talking about the Obama team's report, released thisweek, into their limited contacts with the embattled Illinois governorand the way President-elect Obama handled the controversy.

(on camera): Do you wish that you and the president-elect haddone anything differently?

GIBBS: No, Jake. We were -- the president-elect tasked thestaff to come up with any contacts or lists of contacts that they mayhave had with the governor and the governor's staff.

But the president-elect was also very mindful that we had,through no fault of our own, been brought into an investigation by theU.S. attorney, looking into the actions of the sitting governor ofIllinois.

TAPPER: There has been, in New Mexico, some questions about acontributor to your new designated commerce secretary, pending Senateconfirmation, Bill Richardson.

How confident are you that Governor Richardson and all of yourproposed Cabinet nominees will clear the Senate confirmation process?

GIBBS: Well, look, what President-elect Obama and VicePresident-elect Biden and the transition team have done is puttogether what we think is a great Cabinet, with many, many strongchoices that will be able to tackle the many problems and challengesthat this country faces.

TAPPER: So you're confident he'll be the commerce secretary?

GIBBS: I don't doubt that any -- in the case of GovernorRichardson and in the case of anybody else, I think at the end of theday, you'll have a very strong cabinet in place that's confirmed in away that allows the president-elect to hit the ground running on the20th of January.

TAPPER: But you're about to enter a sphere of fame that you'reprobably not prepared for.

GIBBS: Definitely not prepared for.

TAPPER: Considering what a pinata the press secretary's job is,why would you want this job?

GIBBS: I think it's a tremendously important time in ourcountry's history, and if I can help the president through the role ofthe spokesperson that talks to the country every day, in a briefingroom, or through the work of reporters, that doing that and furtheringan agenda that will bring about change and move the country forward --that's a hard opportunity to say no to.

TAPPER: President-elect Obama's favorite movie is "TheGodfather," and he was asked which character in "The Godfather" youremind him of. His first instinct was to say Tom Hagen, who is theattorney, the consiglieri, played by Robert Duvall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT DUVALL, ACTOR: Things are starting to loosen up a littlebit. If you go after Tattaglia, all hell's going to break loose. Letthe smoke clear. Pop can negotiate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: But he said also you have a little Sunny in you too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CAAN, ACTOR: No, no, no more. Not this time, Consiglieri.No more meetings, no more discussions, no more Sollozzo tricks!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What do you think that meant?

GIBBS: There's no question that everybody has different styles,and I think the president-elect in that article said that, you know,there's times in which I can be combative for his point of view, and Idon't doubt that that's at times going to happen.

TAPPER: I know that you've met privately with former presssecretaries, but we also talked to some press secretaries ourselvesand asked them to give you some advice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY DANA PERINO: I think one of the bestpieces of advice I ever gotten was to not take the questions in thebriefing rooms personally. It can sometimes feel like they're comingafter you or coming after him through you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIBBS: I should be writing this thing down.

TAPPER: We'll get you a transcript.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Is that going to be tough for you? You are known to adegree as a political knife fighter. I think that's what thepresident-elect was getting at when he compared you to Santino, whowas not a good don, by the way. Too emotional.

There were some times during the campaign you probably tookthings personally a little bit.

GIBBS: I do think the crucible of the campaign, I think, is alittle different than I think what governing will be like. I thinkDana's right. My guess is if you took every one of them personally,you probably wouldn't make it through a whole month without becomingso enraged that you didn't want to talk to anybody in the press, and Idon't think that's probably a very good way of operating.

TAPPER: All right, some more advice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY SCOTT MCCLELLAN: You want tobe able to vouch for yourself and for the president, but be carefulabout vouching for others. When you're not there, someone may tellyou one thing, but you can't know with absolute certainty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Scott McClellan speaking from personal experience. Heof course felt very burned by two presidential aides, Karl Rove andScooter Libby, about their conversations, and his vouching for themfrom the podium.

There have been times in this campaign and currently where youare asked to vouch for somebody else, what conversations Rahm Emanuel,your -- the incoming chief of staff had with the governor. That'sdifficult, isn't it, to speak for so many people?

GIBBS: Sure. You have to communicate things that, as Scottsaid, you may not have been in the room for every one of thosedecisions or every one of those conversations. I believe that thepeople that we've assembled, that the president-elect has been able toassemble in a government that will take over on the 20th of January, Ithink we put together a caliber of people that not only that I trust,but certainly had the trust of the president-elect.

TAPPER: Those are idealistic words. And I don't begrudge youfor them, but isn't it inherent...

GIBBS: If I can't be idealistic now, it's never going to happen.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Isn't inherent in having this cabinet full of suchstrong personalities a risk for you, a risk for you...

GIBBS: I think a far greater risk is to assemble a group ofpeople that whenever the president opens their mouth, they all nodtheir heads in agreement.

TAPPER: What about people who are trying to protect theirreputations before the public of the United States of America? You'regoing to have Hillary Clinton, your incoming likely secretary ofstate, is going to have a real power base in Foggy Bottom, at theState Department, and you know, she obviously disagrees with yourremaining secretary of defense, Robert Gates, a holdover from the Bushadministration. He's going to disagree with Jim Jones, who comes verymuch out of John McCain's world. How are you going to make sureeverybody stays on message, publicly?

GIBBS: This is the charge that the president-elect has givenevery one of the people that he selected, be it for a White House jobor for a cabinet position.

TAPPER: Keep your mouth shut outside the room.

GIBBS: But -- well, what the president-elect -- there's oneperson in that room that's going to make the ultimate and finaldecision. That's going to be President-elect Barack Obama.

TAPPER: I've got some helpful tips from the Bush administrationfor you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Oftentimes, you have to defend, of course, the presidentto the press. But an even tougher job sometimes is defending thepress to the president. It's part of the job. And I took that veryseriously, and I think that we were able to be successful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Dana Perino, talking about defending the press to thepresident, while she's standing there sporting a black eye from when amember of the Iraqi press threw his shoes at the president. Notalways easy to defend the press, I would imagine.

GIBBS: I certainly know that President-elect Obama believes thatand understands that role.

TAPPER: But he thinks that we, the media, spend too much time onsilly things.

GIBBS: I wouldn't disagree that there were times in the campaignthat that was -- look, there were, you know, we were watching hundredsof thousands of people lose their jobs, and we were debating themeaning of the phrase "lipstick on a pig."

In large ways, the public gets their information through aworking press. It's up to the press secretary to advocate for thetype of access and for the type of knowledge that they need, to dotheir job in order to be able to communicate the president's message.My guess is, if you can talk to the current administration,particularly as it relates to the economic recovery or the moneythat's been used to help, you know, banks and to relieve the stresseson our financial system, is -- if they could do it all over again, Ibet one of the things that they might tell you is, they need --probably needed a stronger communications strategy for letting peopleknow and understand how this was going to work and what this money wasgoing to be used for.

TAPPER: Last bit of advice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE LOCKHART, FORMER CLINTON PRESS SECRETARY: In a little tinyhidden office in the White House press secretary's office, there is aliteral flak jacket, a kevlar flak jacket, and tradition has beenpassed on from press secretary to press secretary to write a note tothe next person who is going to take the job. It provides the bestadvice you can ever get. Some of it's very funny. Some of it's verypoignant, but most importantly it's secret. But I would advise Mr.Gibbs to read them carefully.

PERINO: It's a great tradition, and I look forward to passing iton to you, Robert.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Who is the press secretary whose advice you want to readthe most? Who is the one who you hope to be most like?

GIBBS: Well, I think each of them has brought many strengths tothe job.

TAPPER: Don't give me that. Who do you -- who...

GIBBS: See, I'm already -- I'm practicing for my next job.Right?

TAPPER: Very diplomatic. All right. We'll leave it there.Robert Gibbs, incoming White House press secretary, thanks for joiningus.

GIBBS: Thanks for having me again.