‘This Week’ Transcript: Gov. Jerry Brown
May 18, 2014— -- Below is the rush transcript of "This Week" on May 18, 2014. It may contain errors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now on ABC's THIS WEEK -- fire emergency -- the red hot battle against raging infernos. We're live on the front lines.
Plus, California Governor Jerry Brown on the drought that could make this one of the deadliest fire seasons yet.
Firing back -- BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She's doing great. She's in better shape than I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the Clintons versus Karl Rove in a bitter battle over Hillary's health.
Who won?
And is it a preview of 2016?
Campus alert -- the nationwide outcry about college sexual assault -- are students safe?
And celebrating a legend...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing this will be Barbara Walters of ABC News.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barbara Walters -- how she changed the view on Sundays.
From ABC News, THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS begins now.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST: Good morning.
It has been a brutal week for firefighters out West, battle an unprecedented threat. There they are, just inches from the flames. The worst is over now, but the toll is high -- 25,000 acres scorched. Heartbroken families returning home, everything gone.
ABC's Bazi Kanani starts us off from San Marcos, California -- good morning, Bazi.
BAZI KANANI, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, George.
Officials expect all of the evacuated residents will be allowed to return to their homes by tonight, and unfortunately, this is what some are finding. This home one of dozens destroyed by the fast-moving fires.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KANANI (voice-over): The raging results of not enough rain -- four of the 10 wildfires tearing through San Diego County this week still not contained. Thousands of firefighters and Marines rushed to beat back the flames, 25,000 acres charred, one dead and already nearly $20 million in damage.
What's lost, for many families, is priceless. The Gilmore family in Carlsbad now digging to salvage memories.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
KANANI: Just hours before his senior prom, 18-year-old Adam recovered one of the few remaining mementos of his childhood.
ADAM GILMORE: One of the few things was a Woody little toy here. It's pretty burnt to a crisp.
KANANI: Cooler temperatures and calmer winds are helping firefighters get the upper hand, but it's just not enough to reduce the fire danger here and across the state. California's firefighting agency has responded to 1,500 fires this year, nearly double an average year. Nearly all of California in extreme drought after another winter and spring with almost no rain.
With vegetation already drying out, these exhausted firefighters may not get much rest in the hot months ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very good.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
KANANI: California fire officials are pleading the residents here to get serious about fire prevention. They say the first fire here was started by sparks from a construction vehicle -- George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Bazi.
Thanks very much.
Let's get more on this now from California governor, Jerry Brown.
Governor Brown, thank you for joining us this morning.
Is the situation under control?
GOV. JERRY BROWN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, relatively under control you never know. It depends upon the weather today, tomorrow and next week. So, yes, it's under control for the moment. But we're in a very serious fire season, more serious than we've seen before.
So we have to watch and be very careful.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You say more serious than you've seen before, twice as many fires already this year than the average over the last five years. I was struck by the front page of "USA Today" on Friday. It says, "Drought Turns California into A Tinderbox."
What more are you expecting this summer?
BROWN: Well, we're in the third year of a very dry season. We're getting ready for the worst. Now, we don't want to anticipate before we know, but we need a full compliment of firefighting capacity.
The state's climate appears to be changing. The scientists tell us that definitely. So we've got to gear up here. And after all, in California, for 10,000 years, our population was about 300,000. Now it's 38 million. We have more structures, more activist, more sparks, more combustible activity and we've got to gear up for it and as the climate changes, this is going to be a radically different future than was our historic past.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that's the big question, how do you adapt to that?
You say that climate change definitely is -- is at the heart of it, at least a big part of this. You know there's a lot of skepticism, particularly among Republicans in Washington about that.
How do you build the consensus to adapt?
BROWN: That's a challenge. It is true that there's virtually no Republican who accepts the science that virtually is unanimous. I mean there is no scientific question. There's just political denial for various reasons, best known to those people who are in denial.
But whatever the thoughts of the Republicans, we here in California are on the front lines. We've got to deal with it. We've already appropriated $600 million. We have 5,000 firefighters. We're going to need thousands more. And in the years to come, we're going to have to make very expensive investments and adjust. And the people are going to have to be careful of how they live, how they build their homes and what kind of vegetation is allowed to grow around them.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So what else can you do right now to prevent the worst?
I know you've signed an executive order creating new regulations and local governments.
What more can your government do?
Do you need more from Washington?
BROWN: Well, if Washington could change the drought, I'd ask them. But, you know, we live in a world that is not just government or not just business, it's natural, the natural systems. And as we send billions and billions of tons of heat-trapping gases, we get heat and we get fires and we get what we're seeing.
So we've got to gear up. We're going to deal with nature as best we can, but humanity is on a collision course with nature and we're just going to have to adapt to it in the best way we can.
In California, we're not only adapting, but we're taking steps to reduce our greenhouse gases in a way that I think exceeds any other state in the country. And we'll do more.
In the meantime, all we can do is fight all these damn fires.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Before you go, I want to ask you a final political question.
Back in 1992, you stayed in the primaries against Bill Clinton right up until the convention. You said it shouldn't be a coronation. You saw both Clintons out in full force this week.
Do you think Hillary is headed for a coronation this time around?
And is that a good thing for Democrats?
BROWN: Well, I wouldn't call it a coronation, but I would say she's the overwhelming favorite. I can't see any opposition, not even potential opposition. It -- whether it's a good thing or not, it does carry with it risks. Being a frontrunner is being on a perch that everyone else is going to try to knock you off of.
So she's there. She's got the capacity. But like any frontrunner, she has to be cautious and wise in how she proceeds forward.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Governor Brown, thank you very much for your time this morning.
BROWN: Thanks.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Now to that desperate search in Nigeria, where those 200 young girls taken from their school have now been held by the Boko Haram terror group for more than a month.
A new military offensive is underway right now, with help from the US.
And ABC's Hamish MacDonald has the latest.
HAMISH MACDONALD, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The search for the kidnapped Nigerian girls is stepping up. The Seventh Division of Nigeria's army is leading the way, with surveillance support from the U.S. overhead. They're scouring the Sambisa Forest and the Gorza (ph) area, where they believe smaller groups of girls are held, some possibly in caves.
But Nigeria's military is facing criticism about its effectiveness.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're now looking at a military force that's, quite frankly, becoming afraid to even engage.
MACDONALD: International partners, including the U.S. and U.K., have been reluctant so far to share all intelligence, fearing leaks inside Nigeria's military may be tipping off Boko Haram. The military is defending its deployment and its resourcing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody ever has enough. I think we're trying our best and we are improving regularly.
MACDONALD: The Nigerian president promised to visit Chibok, where the girls were taken, but changed plans at the last minute, citing security fears.
In the volatile northeast, we met families of the missing. These fathers feel nervous, abandoned and frustrated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no policemen, no soldiers, no any civil servants that would...
MACDONALD (on camera): Are you angry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MACDONALD (voice-over): At this weekend's summit in Paris, Boko Haram was labeled West Africa's al Qaeda. Its leaders promised to wage total war on the group.
(on camera): For all this rhetoric about war on Boko Haram, there are still serious doubts about the capacity of Nigeria's military. The State Department view seems to be that even if the girls can be located, Nigerian soldiers might lack the skills to carry out a successful rescue mission -- George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Amish, thanks.
Let's get more analysis now from ABC's chief global affairs correspondent, Martha Raddatz, and retired Navy SEAL, Robert Harward, now an ABC News contributor -- and Mr. Harward, let me begin with you.
You just heard those doubts that Hamish expressed that the United States has about the capability of the Nigerian military.
What kind of resources do we have in place there and what can we do?
ROBERT HARWARD, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, George, as the State Department acknowledged yesterday, we have a full range of assets to assist the government of Nigeria, not only advisers, but also those air and satellite assets that can search over a broad area of Northern Nigeria to isolate those individuals.
So we're going to track to listen and hear and see what they're doing over these wide areas, to then isolate them and thereby allow the government of Nigeria to take that information and pursue courses of actions to solve this problem.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But Martha, to underscored it here, this will not be an American operation.
RADDATZ: It will not. You've heard the president say there will be no U.S. boots on the ground. And what he means by that is combat troops. The U.S. is not going to carry out a rescue by itself of any kind. Nigeria is a sovereign nation. They don't want to ask the U.S. to actually go in and rescue. But there are other things that can be done to look for those girls and help.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So Mr. Harward, if these girls are identified, what comes next?
HARWARD: Next, then, is isolating a location, not only of them but the bad guys and then providing assistance to move those troops or resources into place to solve a problem.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Martha, before we go, I do want to ask you one question about this Veterans Affairs controversy, which has cropped up over the week. You saw General Shinseki, Secretary Shinseki up before congress this week taking some heat. Also, at the end of the week announced the firing of his undersecretary of health Robert Petzel, but that seems to have backfired.
RADDATZ: It certainly did. There was a press release on Friday saying that he has accepted his resignation. And then we later learned he was set to retire anyway. They didn't put that in the press release. They didn't put that out. Of course, we all found out that he was set to retire anyway. So this is not exactly a sweeping statement by the VA, this is long from being over, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Martha Raddatz, Robert Harward, thanks very much.
We're going to turn now to that big move in Washington this week that affects all of us who go online. It could change how you get movies from Netflix, products on Amazon, and how much you pay for them, too.
ABC's Jeff Zeleny explains that debate opened up by the FCC and what it means for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF ZELENY, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The Internet, famously so egalitarian...
JESSE EISENBERG, ACTOR: If you guys were the inventors of Facebook, you'd have invented Facebook.
ZELENY: Anyone can start a multibillion business in their dorm room or garage.
JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE, MUSICIAN/ACTOR: A million dollars would be cool. You know what's cool?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You?
TIMBERLAKE: A billion dollars.
ZELENY: But is that about to change?
KEVIN SPACEY, ACTOR: One heartbeat away from the presidency and not a single vote cast in my name. Democracy is so overrated.
ZELENY: There are new fears Washington may take that wide open super highway and turn it into a toll road, allowing internet giants like Verizon and Comcast to charge your favorite websites for faster service into your home leaving you stuck with the bill and leaving the little guys stuck in the slow lane or never getting off the ground.
If this had been in place all along, what innovations do you think we wouldn't have now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure Twitter ever gets started, because the cable company will say Twitter, how is this going to make money for us? Forget it.
ZELENY: Internet providers insist innovation won't be stifled and say a two-tiered system is a matter of fairness.
The debate has drawn protests, but regulators say don't worry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Personally, I don't like the idea that the internet could be divided into haves and have-nots. And I will work to see that that does not happen.
ZELENY: The FCC will issue a decision this summer that could pave the way for a new divide on the internet.
For This Week, Jeff Zeleny, ABC News, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: That's get more on this now from Cory Johnson and internet expert for Bloomberg Television. Thanks for being here.
You've said this will be one of the most consequential decisions ever for the FCC. Why?
CORY JOHNSON, BLOOMBERG TV: Because this changes the future of -- look, all the stuff we do on the internet, whether it's business, whether it's personal interactions, whether it's watching movies on Netflix, all those things are going to be changed by this decision.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And break it down a little bit. I think people hear the word net neutrality and kind of their eyes...
JOHNSON: ...they glaze over...
STEPHANOPOULOS: This is truly important.
JOHNSON: It's also really simple. This is just about how fast things happen on the internet. We have painfully slow speeds for internet connections in the U.S. And what this decision is trying to do is allow certain companies to have their own fast lane on the internet. And the law currently allows for that. So, for example, Netflix has a deal with Comcast where they pay extra to move their content faster. That's great if you're a Netflix user or if you're Netflix itself, it's horrible if you're Amazon Prime or Hulu or competitor.
What if we lived in a world where This Week with George Stephanopoulos was a little bit slower than Disney Channel's Fineas and Ferb? Everyone would rather watch this show than Fineas and Ferb...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, not my kids.
JOHNSON: Maybe, but just by the cable provider making that choice, the internet service provider making that choice, they can give an advantage to one business over the other and change the content we consume as citizens.
STEPHANOPOULOS: This is going to be a huge battle. You've got the big cable companies, the internet service providers on the one side, big technologies they're going to spend a fortune. What's your best guess now on how this is likely to play out?
JOHNSON: Well, there's tremendous uproar about this. There are so many companies that have come out and said we've got to have fair rules -- everything crosses the internet. The backbone of the internet is about the same speed. But when it arrives in that last mile, that's when you have a handful of small companies with monopolies, companies like Comcast, Time Warner Cable, a little bit Verizon and AT&T, they control that last mile. They don't want to have rules. They want to be able to sell fast access. And they have a lot of power in Washington, D.C.
But you have so many other companies that really want an equal playing field at the end the mile, that last mile, the internet broadcast, internet speeds. And I think they're going to have just as loud a voice in Washington. We'll see. As it usually happens in Washington, the biggest spender wins.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, a little too early to read, though. OK, thanks very much Cory.
Coming up, crisis on campus. How colleges and students are taking on an epidemic of sexual assaults.
Karl Rove and Bill Clinton face off over Hillary's health.
And later we celebrate Barbara Walters in our Sunday Spotlight. We're back in just two minutes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Our closer look now at a crisis on campus.
60 universities have been put on notice by the Department of Education for how they've handled sexual assaults. Time Magazine reports this week that nearly one in five college women have been victims. And the author of that cover story is here along with a university president taking action after this from Fusion's Alicia Menendez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALICIA MENENDEZ, FUSION: At Columbia University this week, an issue coming out of the shadows into the national spotlight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The nationwide outcry about sexual assault on college campuses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was raped by one of my close friends who is also a student at Columbia.
MENENDEZ: Anna Sokowicz (ph) is one of 23 students at Columbia University, many of whom say they've been victims of sexual assault on campus, filing a federal complaint that says the university has not taken the violence seriously.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I decided to report my case to the school, because I decided something needed to be done so that he would stop attacking women on campus.
MENENDEZ: What type of justice were you seeking from the administration?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted him to get off campus.
MENENDEZ: Last week, someone -- who knows who -- put graffiti on bathroom walls and flyers across the campus accusing several students of rape.
Columbia has scrubbed the walls and released a statement to ABC News saying they're increasing measures to prevent sexual assault misconduct and support survivors. It all comes in the middle of a full court press by the White House.
Tony West is a member of the president's task force.
TONY WEST, WHITE HOUSE TASK FORCE ON SEXUAL ASSAULT: I think that when college campuses engage the entire community and send a very strong message that dealing with sexual assault is the collective responsibility of all of us, that's when they're most successful.
MENENDEZ: One of the biggest challenges for schools, how to define non-consensual sex. Critics question if sometimes the definition universities use is too broad. Right now the administration estimates the nearly 20 percent of women have been sexually assaulted in college. It's a step that's hardly changed in 20 years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most colleges vastly under report sexual assault.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been sexual assault cases involving athletes at St. Johns...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rape on campus -- when a friend or acquaintance turns out to be the rapist.
MENENDEZ: Even an article from 1990 about an Ivy League school where victims wrote the names of their attackers on bathroom walls.
Cathy Harris was at Brown University then and would become an activist on campus sexual assault.
CATHY HARRIS, ACTIVIST: Whenever there is some national news about campus sexual assault, there becomes some awareness by the schools that they need to do something. As time passes, it's going to blow over and things are going to go just back to how they were. I know this because we were talking about these things 25 years ago. Nothing has changed.
MENENDEZ: It's too late for Columbia survivor Anna Sokowicz (ph), but she hopes it might be different for the next student.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that universities are in a position to really take the first step and make a change.
MENENDEZ: For This Week, I'm Fusion's Alicia Menendez in New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we are joined now by Eli Capilouto and Eliza Gray of TIME magazine.
And Eliza, let me start with you. You wrote that cover story in TIME magazine out this week. And you reach a pretty startling conclusion. You say the truth is for young women, America's campuses are dangerous places.
Will this new push by the federal government make a huge difference?
ELIZA GRAY, TIME: Well, George you know I think that we are at a sort of historic moment for this issue, because you have a perfect storm of grass roots students at college campuses raising a stink about this, and then you have the vice president who authored the violence against women act and the president who has daughters and is personally invested in this.
And so I do think that you're going to see a spotlight put on this issue that might put a little bit more pressure on colleges to make a change.
STEPHANOPOULOS: President Capilouto, University of Kentucky has been on this for a long time, about 10 years and has been cited as a model by the White House for how you've taken on sexual harassment.
What are the best practices that have worked for you?
ELI CAPILOUTO, PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY: Sure. Well, first of all you've got to recognize your problem. Ten years ago, we were one of the first to do a campus wide climate survey. We understood some of those same horrific numbers that were reported previously. We birthed in an entrepreneurial way interventions that we thought would empower individuals and spread that responsibility collectively to the entire community. Our students, our faculty, our staff, our police force, others that you have to partner with and community to make a difference.
And then you've got to stop and reassess, see how effective you are, repeat your surveys, refine, invest and move forward.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is there more the federal government should be doing right now?
CAPILOUTO: Well, I -- we have taken this responsibility on. It is a priority for us. One of the things we introduced, green dot program. This is a way that I would say is equivalent to a designated driver in drinking situations. But it's...
STEPHANOPOULOS: ...green dot who...
CAPILOUTO: Green dot program. That program is designed to train college students so that they can be -- and we target peer leaders, those who are likely to influence many people on campus. We've trained over 5,000. They know how to recognize a risky situation, intervene and do it in a creative way.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So a see something, say something on campus. That makes a lot of sense.
You know, and Eliza, one of the things you pointed out in your piece that these assaults are carried out by a relatively small group. As you write, most guys are good guys, but the bad ones tend to be repeat offenders.
So how do you stop them without stigmatizing everyone else?
GRAY: Yeah, I think that's really important. You know, I think a lot of times when we think about sexual assaults, we think about a he said, she said situation where it was murky. And that certainly does happen.
But I do think that you know the study that I found showed 6 percent of males on the University of Massachusetts campus had had committed rape. And 75 percent of them were repeat offenders who had committed an average of six rapes each.
And so I think what we need to do is sort of speak to the people around them so when you go to a fraternity party, sort of the training we were just talking about here -- when you go to a fraternity party and you see one of your brothers bringing up a girl upstairs who looks too drunk, you know be creative and spill a drink on him and say -- or say, hey man your car is getting towed. And sort of create a diversion to separate them and keep them safe.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's hope it works.
Eliza Gray, Mr. Capilouto, thank you both very much.
Coming up in just two minutes, Bill Clinton versus Karl Rove, the political fight over Hillary's health.
The New York Times fires its first female editor. Did she pay a price for demanding equal pay? Our powerhouse roundtable weighs in after their big winners of the week.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: There was Hillary Clinton celebrating Barbara Walters' last day on The View, one stop in a week that had the feel of a presidential campaign in full swing after Karl Rove took a shot at Clinton's health and the whole Clinton camp fired back.
Here's chief White House correspondent Jonathan Karl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hillary Clinton seems to be enjoying the endless 2016 speculation. Check out how she dodged the big question from Barbara Walters.
BARBARA WALTERS, JOURNALIST: The question I want ask is are you going to run? But...
HILLARY CLINTON, FRM. U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I am running -- around the park.
(LAUGHTER)
KARL: But this week the Clinton's were out in force. 14 public appearances, not just Hillary, but Bill, too. And when Karl Rove attacked, the Clinton rapid response operation was also out in force. It started when the New York Post quoted Rove questioning how badly Mrs. Clinton's brain was hurt by a concussion she suffered in December 2012.
30 days in the hospital, and when she reappears she's wearing glasses that are only for people who have traumatic brain injury? We need to know what's up with that.
In reality, Mrs. Clinton spent three days, not 30 in the hospital. Her spokesman hit back accusing Rove of flat out lying.
Then it was Bill Clinton's turn.
BILL CLINTON, 42ND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: First they said she faked her concussion and now they say she's auditioning for a part on The Walking Dead.
KARL: But Rove wasn't backing down.
KARL ROVE, AMERICAN CROSSROADS: She had a serious health episode. So this will be an issue in the 2016 race whether she likes it or not.
KARL: This much is not in dispute. In December 2012, Mrs. Clinton was ill with a virus, fell, and suffered a concussion and a blood clot. She stayed out of public view for nearly a month, her spokesperson downplaying her condition.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is still under the weather.
KARL: This week, Bill Clinton acknowledged it took her six months to fully recover.
Clinton appears to be in good health now, but Rove made it clear that the health and age of Mrs. Clinton, now 66, will not be off limits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Republics are sending a message, in a sense, to Hillary Clinton that it's not going to be easy, it's not going to be a free ride.
KARL: Bill Clinton said he expects the attacks to get harsher.
BILL CLINTON: This is the beginning.
KARL: And no doubt, the Clintons, both of them, will be taking plenty of shots too.
For This Week, Jonathan Karl, ABC News, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, let's bring in the roundtable now.
I'm joined by Bill Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard; Jennifer Granholm, former governor of Michigan, now a senior adviser to the Ready for Hillary PAC; Peggy Noonan of the Wall Street Journal; and Congressman Keith Ellison, co-chair of the House progressive caucus.
And Bill, let me begin with you. You know Karl Rove pretty well. Was this a shrewd move by Karl, or did he kind of overstep?
BILL KRISTOL, WEEKLY STANDARD: I don't think it was a particularly shrewd move. I mean, we'll see how Secretary Clinton's health is. She'll be out there campaign presumably. She will -- I imagine her health will be fine. But in any case, people can see for themselves. So there's no reason for Karl Rove to speculate about it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the things we saw, Jennifer Granholm, is the Clinton camp hit back unusually hard on this one. It was the most extensive statement we've seen from Secretary Clinton's staff responding to any kind of a charge.
But she will have to address these health questions eventually, correct?
GRANHOLM: Well, I mean every candidate has to put out their health records, etc. And so I'm sure for whoever is running that will be the case.
But this was such a bunch of nonsense. And, really, I think it demonstrates how utterly afraid they are of her. And I think for her, when she makes her decision, who will only be elevated by the nonsense that's happening on the other side.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I think one of the reasons this happens, though, Keith Ellison, and Jerry Brown talked about it, he said -- he talked about the risks of a coronation, when you're kind of unopposed on the Democratic side, it kind of leaves an open field for the Republicans and they feel a responsibility to get in there hard and early.
REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Well, you know, I think it's Karl Rove's job to try to say inflammatory controversial things. I don't think Hillary Clinton needs her head examined, I think there might be some other...
(LAUGHTER)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Peggy Noonan, you remember the -- this whole thing. This is not the first time that age or health has come up...
PEGGY NOONAN, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Oh, my goodness...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- in a campaign. Ronald Reagan...
NOONAN: No. Oh, Bob Dole was in his 70s when he ran for president. John McCain. Ronald Reagan, my old boss. It is standard for -- and it's appropriate for your age and your health to be considered by the voters.
I don't think -- I -- I agree with Bill. I think your point -- I don't think it was -- was helpful for a political operative as opposed to journalists, to begin this whole story.
But I also think, in a funny way, it will work for Mrs. Clinton's benefit. After all, she's got a book tour coming up in June. That means these topics will come up then. When she's selling the book, when she's doing network specs, when she's feeling fresh and perky and can knock it back with prepared lines.
So I think it's fine. But -- but sure, it's an early move of 2016.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We saw a lot of previews of 2016 this week, Bill Kristol, not only this response to Karl Rove, but Secretary Clinton giving a big speech on foreign policy, talking about her hard choices, taking credit for tough Iran sanctions, talking about the economy.
And I think most noticeable in her speeches about the economy, she seemed to focus more on the Clinton years than the Obama years.
NOONAN: Huh.
BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": Yes, the American dream, she said, feels further and further out of reach. The president, for the last six years, you know, as this dream has gotten further and further out of reach, she mentions President Obama once in this long speech on domestic policy, praises her husband's presidency, but basically seems to indict the Obama administration. And I think that's where she'll try to go.
It's pretty hard, though, to run away from an administration in which you've played a part. She was secretary of State. She was part of this administration. Her record is going to be the issue in the campaign, not her health.
And, secondly, she said in the speech, we'll need big ideas to address these questions. I think that is something Republicans should welcome. Let's have a big ideas election in 2016, who has fundamental -- who is in favor of fundamental reforms in health care, tax code, banking and other things.
GRANHOLM: I -- I completely disagree that she was somehow dissing the Obama administration. But she certainly has a -- the Clinton years were good years for people. And, of course she's going to remind them of that. Of course, the Obama administration has been digging out of a hole that was left under the -- his predecessor.
So, you know -- and look how far we've come. We're now at an unemployment rate that was less than when he took over. So there is...
KRISTOL: You've now...
GRANHOLM: -- movement...
KRISTOL: -- you've now defended President Obama more than Secretary Clinton did in her...
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: -- in her...
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: -- 30...
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: -- in her entire 30 minute...
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: -- speech.
GRANHOLM: She doesn't have to be defended. She was part of that administration. It's a continuum. But, of course, she's going to remind people of how good things were under Clinton.
NOONAN: Can I tell you I think what Mrs. Clinton's speech did was tell us what Democrats themselves think of the president's popularity and the president's standing. They are beginning to distance.
ELLISON: I think that she was just talking about her own chops. I think it's clear that the president has done a very good job, given where he started. And, you know, the president has been talking about economic populism. I'm glad she did, too.
I mean when you see 150 cities all over this country, low wage workers out protesting for better wages, I think that that is the thing to...
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: -- I think that that's where we need to go.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But are progressives like you going to have to keep the pressure on?
I mean we saw Bernie Sanders, the senator from Vermont, talking about challenging her just to keep these issues in play.
ELLISON: Well, you know, absolutely. We're going to have to talk about focusing on working Americans and how we could make sure that people who work everyday, who get home and are dirty and sweaty can make a good living. We've got to talk about those things because that's really where the American people's head is.
And I'm going to tell you, any Democrat who wants to be successful should talk about raising the minimum wage, making sure that the health care bill gets implemented so it can benefit people, talking about retirement security. And these low wage workers fi -- striking at McDonald's, I mean that's a sign that we've got to do something in this economy for folks who are really...
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: If I could just say one word, just from my view. Secretary Clinton said the American dream of upward mobility feels further and further out of reach. She didn't say it was terribly out of reach in 2008, but we've come back some. She con -- she believes...
ELLISON: You know, you can (INAUDIBLE)
KRISTOL: -- and he argued...
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: -- and try to turn it into something...
KRISTOL: -- take a look at the whole speech...
ELLISON: But, look...
KRISTOL: -- Keith...
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: It's an intelligent speech.
ELLISON: No...
KRISTOL: It's an analysis of the problems we face. It just...
ELLISON: Well, look...
KRISTOL: -- seems to say that President Obama hasn't done anything...
GRANHOLM: No, no.
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: No, this is not about Obama.
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: It's -- it is about -- it is about the 2002-2003 tax cuts. It is about unpaid for wars. It is about the -- the trickle down economics which you guys...
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: -- that you guys...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Go ahead, Peggy.
NOONAN: Just quickly, I think the Republicans right now are doing something very quietly that I think I would love to see the Democrats doing. Republicans, senators, governors, are actually talking about governance. They're talking about ideas to change America, to bring the economy back.
I see the Democrats not doing that, not doing ideas, not doing the formulations...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me bring in...
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: -- the government...
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: -- 16 days...
NOONAN: Oh, come on.
ELLISON: They almost threatened to default on the deficit. I mean they've been doing a lot of bad things. But you have to...
NOONAN: I am not hearing ideas...
ELLISON: We have...
NOONAN: -- from the Democrats. I am hearing...
ELLISON: -- we have not moved anything in the House of Representatives.
NOONAN: -- I am hearing complaints.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me bring that to Jennifer Granholm, though, because isn't that the biggest challenge, if Hillary Clinton runs, to be new, to be fresh, to have big ideas for the future?
GRANHOLM: Well, I don't think it's hard for her at all. She has been articulating that and there's a lot of great Democratic ideas out there that the president has put out, but it's been blocked by the Republicans in the House.
ELLISON: Oh, sure.
GRANHOLM: I mean the reason why things are falling farther and farther behind is because the House is not moving on the stuff that the president -- you can shake your head, but -- but -- but the...
KRISTOL: Which legislators didn't...
GRANHOLM: -- the Congress...
KRISTOL: -- which legislation has...
GRANHOLM: -- Congress has not been moving...
KRISTOL: -- the Democratic Senate passed?
GRANHOLM: -- to...
KRISTOL: Give me an example.
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: Immigration reform.
KRISTOL: Give me an example. Give me...
ELLISON: Immigration reform.
GRANHOLM: It would be a huge asset to...
ELLISON: If they passed that, that would help the economy...
GRANHOLM: -- the economy.
ELLISON: Tremendously.
KRISTOL: Oh, really?
ELLISON: The CBO says it would increase jobs and do a lot of good for a lot of people.
NOONAN: You know...
ELLISON: I could tell you, that's what folks in my district are talking about.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We're going to have to take a break right now.
But before we do go to break, our Powerhouse Puzzler, inspired by Barbara Walters. Take a look at this question to the first President Bush in June of 1992.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Looking back over your four years, what was your biggest mistake?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: So what did Bush say?
We'll get the roundtable's guesses in just two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: So what did the first President Bush say was his biggest mistake in the White House?
Let's see what the answers are.
Bill Kristol, the (INAUDIBLE) raise taxes...
NOONAN: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- raising taxes after he said "read my lips."
Correct.
Peggy Noonan, not explaining his key leadership. No, he said -- he took the hit on the substance, raising taxes for three out of four.
Here's what he told Barbara.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Reaching compromise with Congress in 1990 on the Budget Act, that that was a mistake. And I think it -- it caused a credibility problem at the time. And I -- so I would have to rank that as not a howling success, put it that way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we're back in two minutes with that turmoil at "The New York Times," with its first female editor fired for being too pushy, demanding equal pay.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS: The New York Times has fired its top editor, Jill Abramson. She's out. And some say it's because she thought she wasn't paid the same wage as men in her position.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some reports have suggested bosses and underlings found her too pushy, which as we all know can be a loaded term.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But what The Times has done is undermine their own reporters, undermined women in the organization and handled this phenomenally badly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Back room dealing at The New York Times exploding onto the front page this week after the editor -- the first female editor in its history Jill Abramson fired by the publisher.
Arthur Sulzberger, some reports that she was not paid as much as her predecessor Bill Keller. But this has drawn a pretty sharp response from the publisher. He said, "I decided that Jill could no longer remain as executive editor for reasons having nothing to do with pay or gender. Ultimately, I concluded that she had lost the support of her masthead colleagues and could not win it back."
And Jennifer Granholm, Mr. Sulzberger having a pretty tough time convincing a lot of women, particularly women in the media, but that's true.
GRANHOLM: Well, they've handled this totally poorly and how he comes out today with a whole other series of stories about who -- from support -- people who are supportive to him sort of leaked through -- and my guess is she's going to come back perhaps with some other stories. Maybe there is a lawsuit in this.
But the reality is that for every female journalist, she knows very well that across the board women journalists make less than men. 83 percent of the male salaries what the female journalists according to an Indiana study.
So to me, this is just an example of something -- the reason why this has been so hot is because it's so -- it touches a nerve that is so real for women.
STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the things you see is a lot of women say that when a woman displays the same kind of temperament issues that men display, being brusque or you know rough a little bit around the edges, they get punished.
But Arthur Sulzberger's response was, no, what this shows is that when women get top management positions they're fired sometimes just as men are.
NOONAN: Well, that's reasonable enough. And yet somehow the attention and criticism I think was focused on the woman in this story, Jill, and not on, say, the fellow who runs the paper who has had a heck of a lot of executive editors in the past decade, who has hired them, who has fired them. So perhaps there's some temperament going on there, you know.
We don't know the exact facts, it seems to me, all the exact facts about money. But has there been a little pushing around of a woman here? I suspect so.
ELLISON: Well, here is what's real. You know, it's not just journalism, women on average are paid less in every sector, and when women are assertive in commanding and leadership, people call them names like pushy.
I mean, Nancy Pelosi has been remarkably successful as a speaker. John Boehner hasn't passed anywhere close. And yet, you know, people don't draw the comparison. And she still gets roughed up by the right a lot.
And I guess, you know, you just see it too much to isolate this from so many other things where women just are not -- even in the low wage workers, minimum wage workers. Women would benefit more if we raised the minimum wage, because whether it's at the top of the scale or the bottom, you know, it's just not fair.
KRISTOL: I love the idea that the liberal elite is now very worried about the persecution of Jill Abramson who made only $750,000 a year in her last year at the New York Times.
ELLISON: But mention the minimum wage...
KRISTOL: No -- yeah, let's mention -- I'm having to have to have an economic policy debate.
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: But I think you guys should be much more upset about Arthur Sulzberger. Why is -- he's the one who has lost the confidence -- if you could have a private discussion with his masthead colleagues at The New York Times, I don't think they have a very high opinion of him. Why does he run the New York Times? Because he inherited it. Shouldn't you guys be more upset about...
(CROSSTALK)
ELLISON: ...Jill Abramson this way, what about the other women? What about the younger journalists? What about -- you know, I mean, it's a real problem. And it's sort of a symbol...
KRISTOL: Who is the they? Who is the they who is treating her that way? Arthur Sulzberger, Mr. Liberal, Mr. Democrat, Mr. Politically Correctness...
ELLISON: But it's not isolated, though -- Bill, it's not a limited thing. It's a societal problem we must confront.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Not one of the top 10 newspapers in the country are run by women now.
GRANHOLM: Right, exactly. I mean, it's the same -- you see, this is a systemic issue. Look at the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies, there are only five women who are governors in this country. I mean, it's just a systemic problem.
But the issue about her pay. I mean, he can say she was let go for other reasons, but he can't explain the pay issue. I mean, from the numbers that were released -- granted, it's a big salary, no question about it, but it's a systemic issue from the top to the bottom. She was earning $475,000, and her predecessor was earning $559,000. She was earning $100,000 less when she was the bureau of the Washington, D.C. office than her predecessor. What is going on that systemically even very high earners are earning significantly less.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And it creates a real bind, Peggy Noonan, because is one report is true she hired a lawyer to make inquiries about that. And that created problems.
NOONAN: Yes.
Look, do you know what I think we're actually talking about? There's a form of power in the world that is, wow, I'm very important right now with this fabulous job -- hire and fire people. I am important. I am powerful. And then you realize, no, you can be removed tomorrow. The person who owns the institution is the powerful person. And that is part of the inherent unfairness, and yet immovable factuality of life.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Goes back to Bill's point.
ELLISON: George, can I?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Go ahead.
ELLISON: You know, we live in a two income world nowadays. When women are underpaid because of their gender, it hurts the whole family. Men need to get on top of this issue, too. It's a real problem for all of us.
STEPHANOPOULOS: No question about that.
That is the last word today.
Up next, it was no surprise that Jay-Z's elevator scuffle went viral, but is privacy dead for everyone else, too? Should we have the right to erase our worst moments online? That debate is coming up.
And we celebrate Barbara Walters in our Sunday spotlight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: All of us may be getting used to the idea that true privacy is a thing of the past. Every day, another caught on camera moment creates headlines.
Every time we post a selfie, search the web or buy a product online, we sacrifice some personal space for the convenience or connection.
ABC's David Wright examines the consequences.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID WRIGHT, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: For Queen Bee and Jay-Z, the invasion of privacy is the price of fame. This sort of attention on the red carpet feeds their brand.
But in the elevator, moments earlier, an argument in which Beyonce's sister appears to physically attack Jay-Z. The release of the elevator security cam footage is clearly a violation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Technology for surveillance is so cheap and powerful that anyone can be competing in the surveillance business.
WRIGHT: The danger isn't just the big brother Edward Snowden warned us about, it's millions of little brothers keeping a watchful eye on the digital footprints we leave without even realizing it. Every website we visit, every purchase we make, revealing intimate secrets to total strangers.
ASHKAN SOLTANI, PRIVACY EXPERT: You might say there's nothing with this, and maybe there isn't.
WRIGHT: Ashkan Soltani demonstrates some software that reveals the third parties watching your every move online.
SOLTANI: When we visit (inaudible) and we look up, you know, luggage, 12 or so third parties that pop up on the site.
WRIGHT: So these are just people lurking in the shadows.
SOLTANI: That's right. These are people that want to know that I'm interested in luggage and monitor me.
WRIGHT: Did you know, Google keeps a record of every search you've ever made. Think about that. Every search you've ever made saved for posterity.
JULIA ANGWIN, AUTHOR: Google really knows the truth because it sees your behavior.
WRIGHT: So, just like that scene imagined in "Minority Report."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Andeton (ph), you could use a Guinness right about now.
WRIGHT: They can sell stuff to you wherever you go.
But ecommerce is just part of it -- text messages, e-mails, online chats, all supposedly private, those messages are retrievable by divorce lawyers, employers and others.
One big concern is all those cameras out there. If they're ever combined with facial recognition technology and powerful search algorithms.
ANGWIN: Right now, you have this sort of false sense, though, that they're not actually looking at you. Once it becomes technologically feasible to identify people right away, then I think we are going to be in a world where, you know, you will never be able to be not found.
WRIGHT: A brave, new world in which every one of us will become a Beyonce or a Jay-Z with nowhere to hide, somebody always watching.
For This Week, David Wright, ABC News, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we are joined by two men who thought a lot about these questions -- Berin Szoka, the president of Tech Freedom and Reddit co-founder, Alexis Ohanian, author of "Without Their Permission."
Alexis, let me begin with you. You say we have to preserve our right to privacy in this brave, new world. But is it too late?
ALEXIS OHANIAN, CO-FOUNDER REDDIT: Well, you know there are -- yes, we are in an age of oversharing with selfies and everyone's got a smartphone on them. But I think a lot of what's happened as a result of the revelations of people like Edward Snowden, reporting of Glen Greenwald is that we do have a right to privacy when we expect it to be private. We make the decision to publish certain things, we make a decision to publish other things privately online or offline.
And what's interesting is, I think the European government has the best of intentions with the laws that they're trying to pass. The problem is going to come down to actually executing it because this is the -- the internet is one giant copying machine.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You describe the decision by the European court about this so-called right to be forgotten, which gives people -- would give people the right to ask Google or some other search engine to take down links that they find embarrassing. Are you worried about that?
BERIN SZOKA, PRESIDENT, TECH FREEDOM: I'm very worried about that. As a practical matter it will make hard for websites like Reddit to keep providing user content. That's why in the U.S., we decided not to that, to not make sites like Reddit responsible for what their users do. That really has been the basis of the open internet in this country.
And so my concern is that there's sort of a false debate here. There are people who say privacy's dead. And that's not true. I don't believe that. Then there are people who say privacy is an absolute fundamental right. And that leads you to crazy decisions like the European one.
So the real goal is to figure out in the middle, how to deal with real harms, real problems, when the NSA is able to get all of our information, when police can get information about us without going to a judge.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about when companies can track every, single thing your kids do online.
SZOKA: Oh, same thing.
So, you can either say there's an absolute right and try to shut it down. right? That's not going to work. That really would start to break the internet. But that doesn't mean there isn't a role for government. There is a role going after real harms, real problems and making sure, for example, identity theft, data security breaches, those are serious problems. We should be dealing with those. We should make sure that users do have choices.
But we shouldn't think that we can stop technological change. People tried to stop Gmail, they tried to shut it down when it first started because it creeped them out. And technology is always going to be creepy. The camera was very creepy when it first started and then we got used to it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about on this argument, though, let's say on this argument on the right to be forgotten. If -- you know, most average people are defined by their worst moments online -- if they defaulted on a debt at one point 15 years ago, that's the one thing that comes up. Shouldn't there be a statute of limitations?
OHANIAN: Here is the challenge becomes -- and I eluded to it earlier, the internet is a global copy machine. And the challenge is, trying to snuff it out in one place, is going to create a kind of black market for this information somewhere else, maybe it's because of geographic location or whatnot. It's a difficult proposition. This technology enables a lot of stuff.
But the problem is, it's really hard to put that genie back in the bottle. And there other ways to get around it, right. There are companies in the business of doing reputation management, to sort of help you kind of cleanse your search results by promoting other content that's better, the kind of thing you would want your future employer to see. That seems to be part of a meaningful solution.
STEPHANOPOULOS: A lot of questions for people to deal with. Thank you both very much.
And when we come back, Barbara Walters in our Sunday Spotlight after this from our ABC stations.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: She's retiring on Friday. I don't believe it. I expect, we'll be getting an interview request within weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: You can guess who Jay Carney is talking about there. And you can bet that he's right about Barbara Walters, who said farewell this week after nearly 40 years at ABC News, including some very special moments right here at "This Week."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR (RET.): Good morning. And welcome to This Week.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Barbara's always been a special treat on This Week, bringing her signature questions.
WALTERS: Why can't he be like other presidents and say or be able to enforce his staff to shut up?
Which is the candidate that President Clinton worries about the most?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Big interviews, too, like this one with Hillary Clinton, about those first White House rumblings more than ten years ago.
WALTERS: I know you're not going to tell me whether or not you'll throw your hat in the ring.
HILLARY CLINTON: Absolutely, I'd say no.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What about 2008?
WALTERS: She says she has no intentions or plans of running. Whatever her feelings are for the future, she's making friends on both sides.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Toe-to-toe with Vladimir Putin.
WALTERS: There are reports that nuclear materials have been stolen or even bought on the black market by terrorists. Is that the case?
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): I don't really believe this is true.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Did you come away convinced that Putin is committed to the idea of an alliance with the United States?
WALTERS: Even though he says that the Cold War has been over for years, and he promises friendship and support, there is a great deal of concern in this country.
STEPHANOPOULOS: She was here for the heartbreaks, too, remembering Princess Diana.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You knew her, but millions around the world didn't know her but were fascinated by her. Now why was that?
WALTERS: This combination of the romance, the loneliness, the beauty, the pathos, it was the stuff that romances could be made of.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And JFK Jr.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You knew him, Barbara. Do you think he would have been interested in a public life?
WALTERS: He didn't seem inclined in that area. But in a sense, he still had not found the life's career.
STEPHANOPOULOS: In 38 years at ABC News, Barbara has seen it all, done it all, 24/7, even on Sundays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barbara, welcome.
WALTERS: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't see enough of you here.
WALTERS: I think people have seen enough of me this week.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Not a chance, Barbara. Come back, anytime.
WALTERS: I'm Barbara Walters, for ABC News. Thank you for sharing your Sunday with us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thank you, Barbara.
And now, we honor our fellow Americans who serve and sacrifice. This week, the Pentagon released the names of two soldiers killed in Afghanistan.
That's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out World News with David Muir tonight. And I'll see you tomorrow on GMA.
END