Ex-CIA Chief James Woolsey
Oct. 10, 2001 -- What is the Cental Intelligence Agency's role in the "new war" on terrorism? Did we learn anything from the Gulf War or interventions in the Balkans that can be applied to this new conflict? How can the intelligence community refocus its efforts to prevent further attacks?
Following is the transcript of a live chat with James Woolsey, director of the CIA from 1993-95. A former Navy undersecretary and arms-control negotiator, Woolsey is currently a partner at the Washington-based law firm Shea & Gardner, where he has practiced for 17 years.
MODERATOR at 3:00 p.m. ET
How did the U.S. intelligence community fail to detect and prevent the Sept. 11 attacks?
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:02 p.m. ET
It wasn't just the intelligence community, although they failed along with a lot of others. Part of the problem was that these were individuals, some of whom had been in the country for many months and they were not breaking any laws, so there was no reason for the FBI to investigate.
Two individuals were passed on to the FBI by the CIA, but they had not given accurate information when they entered the country about where they would be staying and the FBI was still looking for them on Sept. 11.
Other failures were of airport security, having no air defense fighter interceptors near Washington, D.C. and a set of policies that had been adopted by the CIA in late 1995 which made it more difficult, although not impossible, to recruit spies overseas if those individuals had some violence in their past. This was a very poor set of guidelines, and I believe it was one of the things that hindered the CIA's ability to recruit people in terrorist organizations.
MODERATOR at 3:04 p.m. ET
How important is the CIA's role in the "new war" on terrorism?
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:06 p.m. ET
Extremely important in two ways, both by exchanging information with foreign intelligence services and by managing spies. It is the vehicle for obtaining human intelligence, which is often the only kind of intelligence that is very useful regarding terrorists.
Occasionally signals intelligence has some use, but you learn very little about terrorists from satellite photographs.
The second major CIA responsibility is for covert action, which is statutorily defined as efforts to influence events abroad secretly, rather than learning about them. This can include, for example, supplying weapons to rebel groups or providing money for their operations. Under a 1975 executive order that is still in existence, it cannot include assassination.
MODERATOR at 3:08 p.m. ET
What are your thoughts on the U.S. military response thus far?
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:09 p.m. ET
So far, I'm pleased with what I've seen. I believe the next phase should include attacks from the air in support of rebel forces fighting against Taliban units in the field.
MODERATOR at 3:10 p.m. ET
Any lessons learned from past U.S. interventions that can be applied to the current conflict?
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:12 p.m. ET
This is a different kind of war than we have fought in the past. There will be a great deal that is new.
We need to understand the religious roots and the distortion of Islam that are involved in the minds of people like bin Laden. We need to understand the culture of the Mideast well enough to know what steps will be most effective in undermining the morale of those who are potential terrorists and supporters.
We particularly need to look hard at whether there may be some state — in my mind, most likely, Iraq — that is working together with bin Laden's group. I would put obtaining information about such government involvement at the very top of our list of things to do.
NICKG at 3:13 p.m. ET
Since Sept. 11, the volume of CIA applicants has increased greatly. A question on the minds of many is, "Is life in the CIA rewarding enough to outweigh the required sacrifices?"
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:14 p.m. ET
Happily for some individuals, it is. The analytical side of the CIA involves a life that has much in common with being a faculty member at a university or of being in a think tank.
But the Directorate of Operations, which manages espionage and covert action overseas, is certainly not a life for everyone. It requires bravery, guile, street-smarts, and the ability to understand and blend into a foreign culture.
The best description I know of in literature is in a novel by David Ignacius, of around 10 years ago, Agents of Innocence, which is a fictionalized account of the life of a remarkable CIA officer named Bob Ames (no relation to Aldrich Ames).
MODERATOR at 3:17 p.m. ET
Ian Voparil writes: "Yesterday, I read that there have been more than 10,000 new applications for employment with the CIA since September 11, 2001. Does this potential influx of manpower suggest that problems with our gathering and dissemination of global intelligence are a thing of the past, or must there be a general reorganization of our intelligence community? As the former director of the CIA, what changes, if any, would you suggest?"
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:19 p.m. ET
I have always been suspicious of solving problems by reorganization in American intelligence or any place else. It often amounts to moving organizational boxes around to no particular effect.
The current structure is not ideal, but it's perfectly adequate with the right people in it. The large number of volunteers since Sept. 11 suggests to me that the CIA will have the option for a time of picking the best of the best, and I think that will be an excellent thing for the country in the present circumstances.
ADAM IN CHICAGO at 3:19 p.m. ET
How long do you think it will be before the US and CIA will have spies in place who can provide useful human intelligence? How long to infiltrate?
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:22 p.m. ET
There's no way of knowing. Sometimes things can happen fast, but recruiting spies has been analogized to growing orchids. The analogy is not a bad one. Case officers seeking to recruit a spy must be careful, patient, skillful, and tolerant of having a number of failures for each success.
In the meantime, we will probably continue to be able to get a great deal of useful intelligence from other intelligence services because we trade information with hundreds of intelligence services around the world (there are often more than one intelligence service per country).
KATHIEK at 3:22 p.m. ET
What personal freedoms do you see potentially being lost in order to secure America?
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:27 p.m. ET
I don't believe we will lose any, but we may have to accept some temporary compromises.
Remember that during the Civil War the Supreme Court even approved the suspension of habeas corpus as long as Congress and the president worked together.
The Supreme Court interprets the word "unreasonable" in the Bill of Rights' prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures more generously in the government's favor in times of crisis and war than it does in peace time.
So the key thing is that the president and Congress agree on whatever steps are necessary to make it easier, for example, for the FBI to conduct searches and interrogations under the present circumstances and then also agree that these powers will lapse after a certain number of years unless Congress acts again.
After the Civil War, we got habeas corpus back and I'm quite confident that after this war any changes that we must make temporarily on such matters will also be made to lapse by Congress and the president.
JOEL at 3:28 p.m. ET
We as Americans have been relayed the message from Washington to be aware of our surroundings and to "report any suspicious activity." Mr Woolsey, what in your opinion, are some examples of suspicious activity that we as civilians can be made aware of?
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:31 p.m. ET
It's difficult to know for certain, but inquiries by individuals about technologies or equipment that could be used to harm others — e.g. crop dusting airplanes — should certainly raise suspicions.
Some of the types of behavior that the 19 hijackers exhibited might also be candidates: for example, a group of young men who move into an area and have nothing to do with anyone else, as was the case with the hijackers.
There is a practical reason, also, why the president's very wise and principled visit to the mosque here in Washington was a good idea. It is extremely important that our Muslim and Arab fellow Americans understand that we value them as fellow citizens, are not going to harm them, and that we need them very badly to help the FBI and other authorities find potential terrorists who may be trying to hide in their communities.
CATHERINE L. SHEA at 3:32 p.m. ET
What can the CIA do about the bioterrorist threat of smallpox, given that we do not possess a sufficient supply of vaccine to contain an outbreak, and all it takes to spread the disease is one infected person walking through an airport?
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:36 p.m. ET
The CIA's role here is of course overseas and it should do everything possible to keep track of technology, equipment, and individuals who might have access to biological agents and their production or shipment.
It is unlikely that a terrorist group alone, even a wealthy one such as bin Laden's, will be able to develop or acquire biological weapons. Aum Shinrikyu, the Japanese terrorist group, had extensive resources and was unable to weaponize biological agents. That is why they used Sarin nerve gas in the 1995 Tokyo subway attack.
If we see the use of biological agents such as smallpox or anthrax, that would strongly suggest to me that a state is involved with the terrorists because the state would be the likely producer of such weapons. I personally believe the most likely state to be involved in something like this would be Iraq.
MODERATOR at 3:37 p.m. ET
Robert asks: "Why can't the government stop the news media from telling the public and the enemy where we are weakest at?"
Do you think we need to cut the flow of information?
JAMES WOOLSEY at 3:38 p.m. ET
Under the First Amendment of the Constitution, prior restraint of speech is extremely difficult and this freedom generally serves us very well, not only because we like to say what we want, but because free exchange of ideas is the best way for us to correct our mistakes.
In war time, however, the Supreme Court has permitted, e.g., a ban on publishing sailing information about troop ships. In peace time, however, it permitted The Progressive magazine to publish a design for a nuclear weapon.
The best way to manage prior restraint, even in war time, is voluntarily. Responsible media will refrain, almost always, from publishing information that they are convinced would harm, e.g., a military operation.
The real problem today is that, with the Internet, the number of "media" outlets is almost infinite. This puts a huge responsibility on the government to manage its own information and not leak sensitive material to anyone outside.
The president just yesterday withheld information from many members of Congress because of a leak from Capitol Hill. This is going to be a matter we will all have to wrestle with for the foreseeable future.
MODERATOR at 3:43 p.m. ET
Our thanks to Jim Woolsey, and all those who participated in this event! If you would like to continue the conversation, please visit this message board.
Moderated by ABCNEWS.com's Saira Stewart