'This Week' Transcript: Cardinal Timothy Dolan

STEPHANOPOULOS: Quite a commentary from the chief justice. He also seemed almost scornful of President Obama. He said we're trying to have it both ways on the Defense of Marriage Act?

ZELENY: It is stunning how fast everyone has moved on this. But Democrats are not doing this because they've suddenly come to this position. Most of them believed that already, but it's politically feasible and popular for them to do it. In fact, it's dangerous for them not to do it. So the question here politically is...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even in red states?

ZELENY: ...well, for Democrats it probably is. But the thing that I'm really looking forward, going ahead here on the Republican side, when does this start to become OK to switch your position? And I'm looking at the donor class. There are more and more donors -- Sheldon Adelson said he doesn't care about same-sex marriage. Some other Super-PAC contributors are supportive of this on the Republican side. So looking ahead to 2016, that's the only way I can see this coming out of the Republican side...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you feeling that -- hold on -- are you getting that, are you feeling that change among your supporters?

KING: There's definitely change out there. There's no doubt about it. Now it's going to be sustained or not, I don't know.

I think this, by the way, I know this sounds naive, should be addressed in a nonpolitical way. I mean, my concerns are changing the institution that quickly just because you have six senators switching last week, or you have polls reversing in eight or nine years, again we have to look at the consequences of changing a 2,000 year institution.

DOWD: George, I want to talk about that first is, this issue is changing already. People sort of developed this myth about 2004 that gay marriage -- the amendments on the ballot had an effect. I was there. They had no effect on the ballot. This issue has been changing for awhile.

But the argument to me that people say this is an institution that's been a traditional institution for 2,000 or 3,000 years, ignores the fact that the institution that was -- if you really want to go to a traditional marriage, it wasn't monogamous, races couldn't marry, women was property and they couldn't give consent. That was the traditional view of marriage for 2,000 years. It isn't this -- a marriage has always evolved over the course of time and this is just another evolution.

And I understand we're sensitive to the...

KING: ...overnight with a decision is not evolving.

DOWD: But it's not overnight.

VANDEN HEUVEL: You know, same-sex marriage is very, very important part of LGBT equality, but it's not the only part. And I do think some attention should be paid in Congress to reviving the federal Nondiscrimination Employment Act which Representative Barney Frank and Senator Merkley introduced last year, because FBI numbers show a rise in hate crimes against gays. And there are at least 20 states in this country where there is still discrimination. So, the marriage piece is important. But I don't think it should consume the full attention.

Finally the court has lagged behind, as Cory noted, on many issues. I mean, it lagged behind in Brown versus Board. And i think there should be a nod to the extraordinary progression which the president spoke of in his inaugural from Stonewall to the Supreme Court. And it took activists and organizing and personal stories, people seen in their own lives the reflection of...

BOOKER: And let me just say, the power...

KING: I mean, you can't say you're basing it on polls or basing it on public opinion. Then you have the referendum in California which was adopted by a solid majority of the people. We're saying it should be struck down.

So to me, there is still a conflict. The best way to resolve that, historically, has been through the democratic process, not through nine people sitting on a bench.

VANDEN HEUVEL: I respect that. But I also think it's an urban myth that mythology that Roe Versus Wade, for example, elicited a backlash.

I mean, Linda Greenhouse of the New York Times -- Linda Greenhouse, the New York Times correspondent wrote a book, "Roe V Wade" before Roe V Wade. And very clearly the right wing was preparing to use abortion, even before that case, to realign the Republican party to politicize evangelicals. And they did. They used it deftly.

KING: But let's look at it from Ruth Bader Ginsburg, a liberal justice on the Supreme Court.

VANDEN HEUVEL: I respect her view. Our legal correspondent David Cole agrees with that. But there are difference of views. And I think it's a mistake to say backlash, you can't move forward...

ZELENY: The bottom line here is age. The bottom line here is age. 8 in 10 Americans born since 1980 support gay marriage. So, we see...

STEPHANOPOULOS: One thing that you don't see moving in the president's direction since the inaugural is support for his proposals on gun control. And the president took issue with that this weekend and got quite emotional when he was talking about it.

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