Transcript: Former Trump campaign aide Michael Caputo's interview on 'The Investigation' podcast

Michael Caputo sat down for an interview for the latest episode of “The Investigation," a new ABC News podcast. A transcript of Caputo's interview as it appears in this episode of the podcast follows here:

ABC NEWS' CHRIS VLASTO: Welcome to “The Investigation.” I'm Chris Vlasto, senior executive producer here at ABC News and I'm joined by my co-host Kyra Phillips who's an investigative reporter here at ABC News. Today we have a special guest. We have Ali Dukakis who is one of our reporters on the task force team who has really focused a lot of her attention on the Roger Stone aspect of this investigation. And one of the people that she came across is a guy named Michael Caputo and he is a longtime friend of Donald Trump. I think he's known him for almost 25-30 years I think. He's also the best friend of Roger Stone. He's been in the crosshairs of this investigation for a while. And he's been on TV shows and he's talked. But the one person he hasn't spoken to in a long time since Inaugural Day is Donald Trump. And that all changed after the Mueller report came out and he got a call and he said the President said “come on down.” And so now we're going to hear from him for the first time talk about that meeting in the Oval Office. Melania Trump was there. Michael welcome to the show.

MICHAEL CAPUTO: I'm glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

ABC NEWS' KYRA PHILLIPS: So glad to have you with us. Days after the Mueller reports release President Trump called to express his gratitude for your support. And it was the first time you guys actually spoke since inauguration day due to the investigation and then he invited you and your family to actually visit him and Melania at the White House to catch up. Curious to know first of all what was it like to get that invitation and then even more so, we really want to know what you talked about.

CAPUTO: I can tell you just getting the telephone call on Monday after lunch was, was I guess it was just transformative, really because our family has been through a lot, a lot of families have. I think there's between 40 and 50 families and individuals who work, who worked - original Trumpers as we call ourselves, who were caught up in this as witnesses and therefore became you know by varying degrees let's say, radioactive, you know weren't able to join the administration et cetera, et cetera and all of us have endured very similar circumstances. So, after two years of not talking to the president - and I've known the president for several years. I mean I first met him in 1988, I worked with him on several projects before the presidential election. It was really transformative. You know, I was really appreciative that he expressed remorse that our family and other families had been caught up in this Russ (CUTS OUT) hoax and when he found out that we were jumping in the car like the Griswolds on spring break and really were kind of going down to the mid-Atlantic area to visit friends, he invited us to visit him at the White House. Of course, I thought that was a great idea I'd love to do it. But I got to tell you, I didn't think it was going to happen just because, you know, those kinds of things don't happen to people just from you know from Buffalo, New York who were on their way like the Griswolds getting in their car. And when it did happen, it was really quite something.

PHILLIPS: What did he want to say to you? What did he want to talk to you about? It had been quite a long time since you both had discussed Russian collusion and the accusations that were out there. What did he want to tell you?

CAPUTO: I got to tell you I boil it down to one word and that's invigorating. We walked away from there completely and absolutely invigorated. You know our family has been - you know, you know on our heels for quite some time. You know, I've lost my business. We've endured 59 death threats. I had you know, all kinds of terrible things have happened us and so many other families. And what was really amazing to me first and foremost is that the president knew chapter and verse of what's happened to our family. Chapter and verse and I know him pretty well. I mean, I know I've been through. I've sat through briefings with him before he became president. You know, it's very clear to me that the president has following what's happening to us. And I'm also convinced that he's been following what's happening to General Flynn and J.D. Gordon and Carter Page and Roger Stone I'm convinced of it because if he's following what happened to our family, he's got a broader perspective on this than just us of course.

VLASTO: Was he angry?

CAPUTO: No, he was, he was absolutely elated. He was so positive. He reminded me of just every other day at Trump Tower. He seemed to like to have not a care in the world. It was really, you know, because I've been reading the press about how he's grousing around the White House and doing everything, but talking to the paintings, totally upset, worried he's gonna be impeached. He's not the least bit worried. Not even for a second. And I was really struck that you know, we've talked for 35 minutes and probably about 75 percent of it was about the investigations and what happened and what's next. But he addressed so much of what he was saying to my wife which I thought was remarkable because my wife is the one that has - who’s borne the weight of this more than anyone and has really suffered greatly. And it was very clear the president knew that, and he was directing his sympathy not just to myself and my four-year-old and my six-year-old and my mother-in-law from Ukraine by the way, but also to my wife and focused on making her feel better. She's been so upset for the last two years. That she actually walked away from the White House and a couple hours later she came to me and you said you know what? It's ok now. That was really valuable to us.

VLASTO: And how did you leave it with the president when you left the Oval Office, are you going to see him again?

CAPUTO: Oh, we’re going to get together again soon.

VLASTO: Are you going to work for his re-election?

CAPUTO: I told him I wanted to, but I've enjoyed defending him on television. I get on national television three, four times a week. You know I swing for the fences for him all the time. I've never been in touch with the talking points machine at the White House, I've been totally independent all the way down the line, I've never been briefed by the White House before an important interview. I just spoke my mind and you know it was interesting because the First Lady especially told me how much she appreciated the things that I said and actually told me back, you know a couple of things that I said on TV weeks ago and you know, I told her, I said listen I've really enjoyed doing this, as bad as this has been. And I want to help however I can. And he said that's a great idea. So, we'll see where it goes. But honestly though, guys, for people to be talking about 2020, you know, my family is still stuck in 2016. So, I gotta get past 2016 before I start talking about 2020.

VLASTO: What about your friend Roger Stone. Did you guys talk about him and obviously he's facing a real trial coming up?

CAPUTO: We did not mention Roger's name. Roger is my best friend and the president knows that. I think he was being careful not to mention his name. I'm very, very concerned. I know the president is too.

ABC NEWS' ALI DUKAKIS: And Michael, so you and Roger are very good friends. You've known each other for decades. You started out in the 80s as his driver at Black, Manafort, and Stone. Where do you see the chips falling for Roger?

CAPUTO: Roger's my best friend. I've known him for a long time, as you said, and for months every Friday was going to be Roger Stone day. You know, because they did these raids and arrests on Friday mornings and Ali. We talk a lot. I know you talked to everybody on all sides of this thing. You're following this better than most people are. I mean we talked about on some Thursdays about how tomorrow was Roger Stone day. It didn't end up to be Roger Stone day until a late, a great, late January, but it was gonna be Roger Stone day for about five months. And every Thursday night we would talk on the phone Roger and I and he would tell me what suit he was laying out and what tie he was wearing and saying that on Thursday nights he would always shave and that was - that had to tear him apart. I can tell you it was a lot of pressure. And in the end, he stopped laying out those suits and just wore that Roger Stone did nothing wrong T-shirt to bed. But you'll notice that morning, when he was arrested that Friday morning in late January, he was clean shaven. So, I can tell you Roger has more of a shot at beating the charges against him than anybody has had in this entire Russia hoax. One reason above all, is that he's getting tremendous amount of support from donors to pay for his legal fees. But also because I think these charges are thin at best and they rely upon testimony from people like Randy Credico who's an odd balls’ odd ball. And I think if you ask me, you know, I'm not allowed to talk to Roger anymore. I'm on some kind of list. No talk to list for Roger that was put out there. Our attorneys spoke and now we don't, you know - Roger and I spoke every day for 30 years sometimes three, four, five times a day. I haven't spoken to my best friend since late January.

VLASTO: And do you think its selective prosecution against Roger Stone?

CAPUTO: Oh I definitely do. First of all, there was no collusion in Roger's whole - the whole spin against Roger as he was conduit to WikiLeaks and of course that was all up to Jerry Corsi and Randy Credico the comedian. The conspiracy theorist and the comedian were where they were trying to build that case. There was no Russian collusion as we know today. They threw up their hands according to some of the reporting out there when you know with Jerry Corsi and just walked away from them because of the, you know, the odd way. You know, the odd things he was saying and the un-un-, unreliable nature of his testimony. But you know Roger's - the allegations against Roger are completely different. And if you look at them, they're about lying to Congress, they're about some of the abusive language he used against Credico. I think Roger is being prosecuted at the end here, because he is by far the one person closest to the president out of all the people that they were hunting down. They couldn't get his son Don Jr., they couldn't get Ivanka or any of the other members of the family. They got Michael Cohen. But you know Roger Stone is someone who's been around the president for much longer than Michael Cohen, much longer than any of us. And I think that you could count them as very close friends. If they can't get the president, I think they believe that they might as well get one of his dearest friends. That's the jackpot Roger’s in. I think it's really dangerous.

DUKAKIS: And you think the president will be watching through his trial in November?

CAPUTO: I think the president is watching everything. You know Ali, we spoke about this before. I thought, you know, I'm on my own. You know, I had to raise my own money and when it came to all the death threats against my family, you know, I carry a 40 caliber glock. Everywhere I go. I have a shotgun station by my front door and my back door. We have to take care of ourselves. Carter Page tells me the same thing. That all of his death threats, he has - if this is a, this is a singular, individual, lonely road to travel. I didn't know that the president was paying attention. One of the reasons why my wife feels so much better now is that - it's very clear that the President and the First Lady are watching this very closely. And I want people who - of the 50 families who suffered like our family and they still suffer in silence, trying to avoid the spotlight, that their lives aren't ruined. I want everybody who's still in the, in the crosshairs of this investigation to know that the president and the first lady are paying close attention and they're not alone.

DUKAKIS: And Michael you said that the president didn't mention Roger by name. Did he mention him not by name? Do you think referred to him at all?

CAPUTO: No, I mean I - he spoke about how everyone being abused by this, you know how people were tortured. And I heard Roger's name in those sentences, but I also heard J.D. Gordon and Carter Page and General Flynn especially. I think the president is paying very close attention to everyone who was abused by this investigation.

VLASTO: Do you think he'll pardon any of these individuals.

CAPUTO: We didn't talk about pardons and I think pardons are kind of a sacrosanct duty of the highest office in the land. I don't really think that it's my purview right now to speak about it, but I can tell you that I think the president should pardon Roger Stone. I think he should pardon General Flynn. I don't even know George Papadopoulos all that well. I think he should pardon George Papadopoulos. I also think he should somehow or another commute the sentence of Paul Manafort because none of these people would be in any trouble at all. And besides Paul Manafort who you know has been found guilty of real crimes. The other people I've spoken of have done nothing wrong and I believe that they deserve the attention of the president at any level that the president can give it.

VLASTO: How much money has this cost you?

CAPUTO: Well, we've got well over two hundred thousand dollars in legal fees so far and I think we're going to have more because you know that the debt - the attorney general of New York State is now conducting her own witch hunt regarding the president's interest in buying the Buffalo Bills. You know, I live outside of Buffalo. I was involved in that purchase in a small way, in a temporary way, and I'm sure I'm gonna be called in for that, for interviews.

PHILLIPS: Will you cooperate?

CAPUTO: Who knows what the House Democrats are going to do. You know, I've already announced that I don't plan to testify again on Russian collusion because it was a hoax. And if Representative Nadler for example wants me to come in like his chief attorney told my attorney. If they subpoena me, I'll go, but I'll be giving them the Fifth Amendment all the way through. I'm finished talking to the Democrats about this Russia hoax. I think everybody should be done with it. I'm going to take the Fifth. I'm not telling anybody else to do it. But I think everyone should.

VLASTO: Do you think the president's nervous about an impeachment trial?

CAPUTO: If he was nervous, I didn't catch it at all on Wednesday and we talked about impeachment. You know, I think, I mean he didn't tell me this, but I think it's entirely possible that the president is pursuing a briar patch strategy here, you might call it. Where he's trying to goad the Democrats into wanting to impeach him because from my perspective, if you look at history, impeachment is not a very - it was probably won't end well for the Democrats. In fact. I think they'll pay dearly at the polls for it. It's not even clear that they could succeed and impeach him in the, in the House of Representatives, he certainly won't be removed by the Senate. But from my perspective personally, I think it is a metaphysical certitude that the Democrats in the House are going to impeach the president of the United States.

DUKAKIS: What did you and Trump talk about having to do with impeachment specifically?

CAPUTO: Well, I mean he waved it off. We talked about it. I told him I thought that that they were going to impeach. Now, I don't want to go through chapter and verse you know because -

(CROSS TALK)

PHILLIPS: He says no. He says he’s not worried about it.

(CROSS-TALK)

CAPUTO: Stay there you know.

(CROSS TALK)

PHILLIPS: But he is out on, Michael, he's been out publicly saying that he, he's not worried about it. He doesn't think it's going to happen. He said that to the cameras you think just the opposite?

CAPUTO: No, I think it's going to happen. I don't think he cares. I don't think he's worried about it. I think he believes like I do that the Democrat - it would be a suicide mission for them.

VLASTO: But you said earlier too that you were going to take the Fifth and not cooperate with Congress. Are you prepared to be held in contempt and perhaps maybe could they throw you in jail?

CAPUTO: I'm not going to be held in contempt by asserting my constitutional rights. I’ll certainly go if I'm subpoenaed, but I will take the Fifth on everything. You know I've, I've testified three times already. Each time it costs me half a year's salary. I was asked the same questions each time and I told the truth every time. But somehow the Senate can't talk to the House and the House can't talk to the Senate and Congress can't talk to Mueller all these federal investigators jealously guarding the answers they get from witnesses that they bankrupt. I'm not willing to go play this game anymore. I don't have to as an American citizen. I have a Fifth Amendment right. If they want to see my answers to those questions, they can take a walk down the hall to the House Intelligence Committee and go into the skiff and read my testimony because you know what I can't have my testimony when I want to read it. It’s very clear to me that if you know 19 prosecutors and 40 FBI agents, 13 of those prosecutors Democratic supporters of Hillary Clinton and Bob Mueller who is a, you know, say what you will about him. He is a tough investigator. If they can't find Russian collusion, Jerry Nadler’s not going to find it.

DUKAKIS: So, we know your position about the collusion aspect of this. But do you acknowledge (LAUGHS) - to say the least, but do you acknowledge that Russia did meddle in the 2016 election? Because that's a, that's another huge issue for folks just acknowledging that it happened.

CAPUTO: It is. On July, I want to say 25th - as the Republicans were gleefully sorting through and the media was gleefully sorting through all the e-mails that were that were released by WikiLeaks. I tweeted out the following: We're all having a great deal of fun with these leaked emails, but this is a provocation from Russia, and something must be done about it, stat. That's word for word. I've never deleted that tweet. I got hell for it from friends of mine who thought that it was over the top. I have always thought that, that the Kremlin was messing in our elections because they messed everybody's elections. You know we mess around a bit in people's elections too. But the fact of the matter is, I haven't liked the way that the administration has kind of you know - the president doesn't like to hear about Russian meddling in the election and people around the president don't like it because they think it's a Democrat ruse to demean his electoral victory. Now, I think we're kind of past that now. I believe the President knows that Putin was messing around in our elections. Our country needs to be paying attention to this. This administration needs to be paying attention to this. But remember it happened under the watch of Barack Obama and he did nothing. So, we all should be more alert to what Russia is doing in our country.

VLASTO: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Thanks Michael.

CAPUTO: Thank you so much for your time.