'This Week' Transcript: After the Tragedy

Transcript: After the Tragedy

WASHINGTON, Jan 16, 2011 — -- AMANPOUR: We thank the congregation of St Odilia for hosting us... It is the home parish to two of those lost in the shooting. 9 Year old Christina Taylor Green had her first communion here...and Judge John Roll grew up in the parish as well.

What I want to ask all of you first is, by a show of hands, to tell me how many of you were either involved at that fateful place at the Safeway, or whether you were involved at the hospital afterwards, or in the immediate aftermath, or whether you know anybody who was involved in that tragic shooting. Show me by a show of hands. So practically the whole room. This whole community has been so touched.

And I think I want to ask you, Bill Heilman, what is the lasting impression that you will take away from that day your wife had brought 9-year-old Christina Taylor Green.

HEILMAN: Indeed, she had. She wanted to show a little girl something that she felt had not been possible in her generation by introducing her to Gabby, and let her know that that opportunity was there for her, too. And it was just a perfect event for that, to do that.

AMANPOUR: And how is your wife coping?

HEILMAN: The emotional side of what's occurred is still sinking in. The extent of the tragedy only really seems to get addressed in very Quiet moments when there aren't audiences around. We had our first psych consult yesterday to start dealing with the ramifications of this, and we feel very well supported and appreciative of the hug that America is giving my wife.

AMANPOUR: Daniel Hernandez, you rushed to Congresswoman Giffords as she was lying bleeding. And by all accounts, you really set the stage for saving her life. And a week later, do you think about what it took for you to run towards her even as there was gunfire?

HERNANDEZ: No, because I think, really, had it been someone else, I would have done the same thing. Although Gabby is someone who I've admired for years and I consider her a friend, I think at this point, anyone would have done the same thing for anyone, because it's a human being, and you need to make sure that you help those in need.

AMANPOUR: Patricia Maisch, you knocked the magazine out of the gunman's hand, out of Jared Lee Loughner's hand.

PATRICIA MAISCH, HELPED RETRIEVE WEAPON: That's a little bit of misinformation.

AMANPOUR: You prevented him from reloading.

MAISCH: I managed to grab the magazine.

AMANPOUR: What do you remember? What is your lasting memory?

MAISCH: That first shot. And I knew -- I'm not a gun person, but I knew it was a gunshot. And just that tiny, tiny space between the first shot and the rest of the shots, just in my head. And then deciding to drop to the ground instead of running, expecting to be shot because the woman next to me was the last one to get shot. And instead, having Bill and Roger, my guardian angels, knock the guy down right in front of me. You know, I owe them my life.

AMANPOUR: Colonel Badger --


AMANPOUR: You've got your arm around Patricia. You did something amazing that day, leaping and tackling him and getting him down so that he couldn't get up again.

BADGER: Well, you know, the thing that I get out of this is the fact that -- how quick everybody bonded, and just like Patricia and myself bonded as a result of this. But it will be something that will haunt me the rest of my life.

AMANPOUR: I'd like to go to Mrs. Bowman and Dr. Bowman in the front row, here. You were just in the area, in the Safeway, and you heard the shots. And your reaction was to rush out to them instead of stay hidden. What did you do and what will you remember?

BOWMAN: We had just passed Congresswoman Giffords and gone into the produce aisle, which is not my favorite section, and had not been in more than two to three minutes when the shots rang out, very quickly, all of them. It was over with probably less than three, four seconds, and just done, it seemed. As I got to the front door, a couple people ran in, one gal screaming, they're shot her, they've shot Congressman Giffords! And she had blood on herself running into the store. So, I stepped through and stopped behind a pillar.

There were no more gun shots, an old' badger had already done his thing by the time I looked around the corner and I - the first thing I saw was Daniel with Congresswoman Giffords and that's, sort of, where go in automatic mode started.

And I looked back after just two or three minutes and realized I had left my wing man, she wasn't there. She hadn't heard me. And they sort of swept her to the back of the store and she came out very quickly. I looked back and she was working with Judge Roll and that was the first time I felt calm, maybe. Because somebody showed up and was helping and the more I looked, everyone was helping everyone.

AMANPOUR: And you were barking out orders, weren't you? You came and really got into the first aid the triage and were giving orders who somebody who you didn't even know, who's not even a medical professional.

NANCY BOWMAN: Well he was the one barking out the most of the orders. He went from the very beginning of the line, all the way to the end, assessing everybody one by one. Those that he felt could be saved and had to come to terms with those that couldn't be saved. I came out and immediately started CPR on Judge Roll.

And as I was doing CPR, a bystander, a stranger to me, steps up and says, I can help. Tell me what to do. And, I guess, that's when the barking started. I told her to start to take over the chest compressions that I was doing. I started mouth to mouth on Judge Roll and then David came back to us after he had made his initial assessment of everyone and said, Nancy, you need to stop. There's nothing that can be done. So, I just looked at Judge Roll, and I said, I'm so, so sorry. And David said, you need to go over and take care of this woman over here, she's awake, she's conscious, she's breathing, she needs your help.

AMANPOUR: When we return, we'll hear from the woman at Gabby Giffords' bedside when she opened her eyes and a husband who became a human shield to protect his wife from a hail of bullets. Amazing stories of survival and hope as our American conversation continues

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(Commercial Break)

AMANPOUR: Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, you are a good friend of Gabby Giffords. And, in fact, you were down here, this week. You came when the President came. What is your lasting impression of what happened?

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D), ARIZONA: My lasting impression is that out of an evil act, we have had an opportunity to see the overwhelming goodness that exists in this country. And as horrific as this act and tragedy has been, the opportunity that we have had, this week, to see how many incredible people there are in our country. And having been here a number of times to campaign for Gabby and having talked to Gabby about the pride that she has in representing Tucson and the Eighth Congressional District, every ounce of that pride was evident and warranted, this week.

AMANPOUR: How is she doing? You're going to see her, again. You've seen her once.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Yes, yes. You know, she's doing better every day. Wednesday was just a miracle to witness, myself and our good friend Senator Gellibrand and Leader Nancy Pelosi were able to be by her side with Mark and her parents and have her open her eyes, you know, just in our - as a result of, we hope are urging her on to come back to us and rejoin the activities that girlfriends do together.

AMANPOUR: some of these incredible people here saved, not only other people's lives but your friend's life, as well, and we've heard a lot from them, that they feel they were doing what they had to do as people and they don't feel they were heroes. Do you think they're heroes?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: There's no question that they are heroes. (applause) And, I think, every one of us hopes that our immediate reaction would be the selfless response would be to spring into action to help someone else. But, I guess, you really never know until you're faced with that opportunity.

AMANPOUR: Dr. Bowman, I know that you're not comfortable with the idea of being called a hero.

BOWMAN: That's correct. And I don't think any of us are including Daniel, I think there were --

DANIEL: I agree.

BOWMAN: I think that there were maybe heroic things done by normal people. That means we're human beings and I think that's, to me, one of the most lasting impressions is to see what people were doing for someone else. Injured people helping someone else more injured. Not concerned about themselves and not screaming and not yelling, "Medic! Medic!" Helping the person next to them.

It gives you a lot of hope that we're doing it the right way somehow.

AMANPOUR: But nonetheless, if I might, I -- I've covered a lot of war, a lot of tragedy and certainly, I know that one tries to hide and -- and tries to get out of the bombing situation or shooting situation.

And you did run towards it. You did -- Patricia, you did what you had to do in that circumstance. And yet you're uncomfortable with the idea of having the hero label attached to you.

MAISCH: I am. This is the hero. He's -- if I'm a hero, he's a super hero. My son says that I should just say thank you, that the community needs heroes right now. But it's still hard to do.

BADGER: I did what anybody else would do.And I'm just so glad that I had the opportunity to do what I did because after seeing the people killed, you know, right there beside me. If he'd have got another clip in that gun, why, it would have been disastrous. At the time I did not know that he was reloading his gun when he went by right in front of me. But when I responded, why, there was an opportunity there because somebody picked up a folding chair and came down on the back of the gunsman's (sic) head and that gave me the opportunity to grab his arm, you know, come up like this and push him down. I got a choke hold on him. Roger had his knee on the back of his neck. And every time he would move, I would tighten my grip and Roger would push down more on his face. He was laying like this, you know....

AMANPOUR:: You gave the shooter a black eye, didn't you?

BOWMAN: Well, when he hit the pavement, why, we were holding him down and -- and he was -- he was saying, "Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow!" And I -- I -- I, of course, I didn't know Roger before this happened but I said, "Roger, let up a little bit." And Roger says, "I don't care."And --


BOWMAN: --and he -- he put more pressure on him.

AMANPOUR: And you, yourself, were grazed -- grazed by a bullet.

BOWMAN: I heard, you know, the first shot and I looked but then, I could see the people falling, you know, or they -- sitting in chairs but they were just slumping forward.

Then everybody was trying to get out of the way and get to the ground. And I did the same thing. I felt the bullet hit the back of my head. And it was just a stinging, burning sensation. When the shooting stopped, I stood up. And when I stood up I did not know that that was the gunman right in front of me. And it's, you know, it's just instant reaction is what it amounts to.But when I saw the chair hit him, I knew that must be the man.


BOWMAN: And that's when I -- and I had an opportunity and that's what I did what I think anybody under the circumstances would have done the same thing.

AMANPOUR: Just go to my colleague David Muir---- you have people who you want to talk to there. Tell us their stories.

DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS: Well, Christiane, we hear about these ordinary people doing extraordinary things. The first responders at the scene -- and I wanted to bring in Dr. Bellal Joseph. -- if you could stand. And I'm curious what you've learned as someone who's trained in this by the so-called ordinary people who really did the groundwork for you.

DR. BELLAL JOSEPH: You know, we do this every day. And that morning, you know, when I walked into the emergency room and saw so many people. The same echoes that come from the first responders at the scene was echoed in the hospital. And I can tell you, people were coming in who didn't need to be there. I think that it was a controlled chaos that just became harmony here.

MUIR: Christiane?

AMANPOUR: I just want to go to Ken Dorushka who was there that day and tell me what happened because you really saved your wife's life and she's sitting right next to you. And certainly, to her, you are a hero.

KEN DORUSHKA: Well, I'm not sure about that. But when we came to visit with the Congresswoman who signed in with Daniel on the clip board. We were eighth in line. As I turned to walk back towards her -- and now I'm only a few feet away from my wife -- what I thought were firecrackers went off. And I turned over my shoulder and I saw it wasn't firecrackers. He was there with a gun and just coming towards me and firing randomly, it looked like.

I immediately -- I got to her. I took her and threw her down rather forcefully. I'm kind of a big guy and I think I injured her pretty hard. But I threw her down on the ground and got -- and put my arm over her head and just as he walked up, at this point in time, he was firing. And we were at the feet of -- of some people that were in chairs that were hit and my arm was hit with a bullet.

And I felt that pain and I kept her down. And I just waited for the next one because I really thought that was going to be it -- that I was on my way out.

AMANPOUR: You thought you were going to die.

DORUSHKA: Well I thought there was a -- yes. Because after the first shot, I thought the second one was going to be the final one. Because as I looked up I saw a sight that I see every night and it was a lot of blood. A lot of -- I mean, Carol was just covered with blood from head to foot from the people that were sitting in chairs.

AMANPOUR: You -- you say you see it every night. Do you have flashbacks?

DORUSHKA: Oh yeah. Yeah. That's what. The physical healing, you know, will take a little time but it'll be fine. It's the emotional healing that's going to take time. That's going to be the hard part.

AMANPOUR: I'd like to ask Anna Ballis, you were also there that day, that moment. How are you coping with it after what you did? Tell me a little bit about what you did that day

ANNA BALLIS, RESIDENT: Well, I never quite made it in the Safeway. It was quite the different trip going to a grocery store.

I had shown up at the -- I did not go there for the event. When I got out of my vehicle, I was actually going to go into the other entrance to the store, but saw that there was a crowd gathering and thought I would go over and check it out and see what was going on.

So as I was walking into the store, I did not know it at the time, but Ron Barber had reached his hand out to me and said, "Please come back and see us." He says, "I would love to have you meet her.

AMANPOUR: This was -- come back and meet the congresswoman?

BALLIS: Yes. I do remember looking over and seeing Christina, and she was quite excited about meeting the congresswoman, jumping up and down. And, unfortunately, she never made it.

AMANPOUR: Did you try to help?

BALLIS: I was not close enough to her. When the gunfire started, I leaned up against a concrete pillar to basically save my own life, went to the ground and got under a table, and just covered up my head.

I looked up, and the first person closest to me was Ron. And I had noticed that he had been shot twice. And he -- when I did crawl out from underneath the table and got over to him, he was more concerned about everybody else. He didn't care about himself.

I do not truly believe he knew the extent of his injuries at that time. And like others have said, you don't think about what you're going to do, you just do it. So I was able to pretty much apply pressure to the wound that he had in his groin area and just stayed there with him and told him he'd be OK.

AMANPOUR: Bill, Christina Taylor Green is such an elemental part of this story. You say you're looking forward to having a private meeting with her parents to grieve together. What will that conversation be like?

HEILMAN: The conversations that I've had with John on the telephone -- I've only spoken with John -- we basically barely get started and we both devolve into tears. Excuse me.

We are very fond of one another. Roxanna, the morning after this event, despite having to be at the lowest depth that a human can experience in this life, took time to e-mail Suzie and assure her of their love for our family, of their appreciation for the relationship that Suzie and Christina had forged, and that we had all their best wishes for Suzie's full recovery.

They have demonstrated gracefulness that is extraordinary under the circumstances. We'll be bonded forever by this tragedy. I just feel the need to share with them. I can't imagine what they're going through, and I don't begin to predict what it's going to be like to get together. I feel the need to share grief with them.

AMANPOUR: And does Suzie talk about Christina even though she's trying to heel physically? Does she talk about her?

HEILMAN: Suzie has had Christina on her mind from the moment she woke up. I sensed that once she did finally lose consciousness, she had described right before that their hands still being held, being on the ground, absolutely eyeball to eyeball with Christina. And that is the image that was in her head until she woke up after her surgery.

We haven't wanted to initiate a conversation on the topic, but much has come forth from her in bits and pieces. She has initially demonstrated a good deal of anger over the fact of what's happened. That kind of -- I mean, obviously, is more than justified. It's almost helpful to hear.

All she wanted to do was to give a little girl a chance to see what she herself could become someday in a way that Suzie and her generation felt she never could. And so that's driving the anger.

She's a strong woman, and she knows rationally that there's no blame to be apportioned. But the fact of the matter is, she took a little neighbor's girl away that morning and was unable to bring her home.

AMANPOUR: And when we return, madmen in our midst. How can we stop someone with violent tendencies before they strike? The conversation continues.

(Commercial Break)

AMANPOUR: Chief Rick Kastigar, can you tell us where the investigation is right now?

AMANPOUR: Is the shooter cooperating?

KASTIGAR: He did not. He, immediately - the day we took custody of him, invoked his rights, and we kept him in custody. Spoke to him no further, other than to deal with his personal needs. But from an investigative standpoint, and I have to be very honest with you, our interaction with him was really only a matter of seven, eight, nine hours and he was turned over to the FBI. But he has not spoken to our organization.

AMANPOUR: And do you know that he's spoke to theirs?

KASTIGAR: To my knowledge, he has not, really, given the FBI much information at all.

AMANPOUR: Campus police at the community college that Jared Lee Loughner attended, were deputed to go out and -- and say that, you know, he looked a little bit like he needed some help. There were worries on campus about his demeanor. Why is it that it did not trigger further investigation?

KASTIGAR: Well -- and that has been a very controversial issue this past week. And a lot of folks have suggested that there were clues to his mental stability. But we're governed by laws And the laws allow us to do certain things, and restrict us from doing other things.

And I don't necessarily as a police professional question those. As a person I might. But we're bound by those laws. Those contacts that Jared Loughner had over the past couple of years were -- actually there were several, but each one was relatively benign. In their totality as viewed by law enforcement, they would not rise to the level of causing us to be necessarily concerned about him committing a violent act.

Because none of the acts were necessarily violent. He was disruptive in a Pima College classroom. And I personally don't want a police state where anybody who's perhaps has an opinion, or stands out in their classroom, or does something goofy in their classroom, gets arrested and then put in some kind of a mental rehab system. I'm not necessarily a proponent of that.

But I'm a little bit defensive. Perhaps you can tell that by my tone. That there are others out there -- there are criticisms that says, "Why didn't cops arrest this guy before?" Again, we're bound by the law. And the totality of those issues didn't rise to the level that would allow law enforcement to take action.

AMANPOUR: Well, let me go to David who's there with a friend of Jared Lee Loughner.

(MUIR): Stephen Cates, if I could ask you to stand up that would be great. And I know that you were in a poetry class with him, and we've heard a little bit about that -- the trademark pink hair this week. But you have been such a valued voice, because you were witness to him. You were in the same classroom with him. Were there warning signs that were missed?

CATES: Warning signs for violence? No. You know, in -- in the class that I had with him, he made people uncomfortable his -- the way he carried himself. People felt eerie around that, but there -- he didn't behave aggressively. I mean, even his poems were far from aggressive. And so it's hard to draw a line between someone being weird and standing out, you know, and --


MUIR: Tuscon loves you as we've learned from this event

CATES: And if you're going to try to police that somehow because, you know, again as the sheriff said, he didn't do anything that would merit police action or any kind of institutional intervention.

MUIR: It seemed like he was a very troubled young man and that there were people, even his math professor who said, this is a troubled student of mine. Did you seethat trouble?

CATES: You could see a lack of stability. Trouble -- it's -- that's perspective and so that's hard to really gauge when you're not in their head. But that's -- again, that's not something that can be measured because it's all perspective and that's all from whoever's looking at it and you can't -- you can't draw lines around something that's built on perspective.

MUIR: Thank you for your honest voice this week. And I wanted to go back to Lynn who lives across the street from the Loughner family. I know it's been a very difficult week for you --

RIACH: Yes, it has.

MUIR: -- and this is the first time you're talking and we do appreciate it. I wonder -- living across the street and with that vantage point, if you now look back and say there were signs.

RIACH: I wish that I would have had more courage to have said more to his parents to help him better because he did kind of walk around our neighbor without acknowledging anyone.

MUIR: One of the things that struck me. You spoke of the music. You said there was once beautiful music coming from that house.

RIACH: Yes, there was. About four years ago and a couple of years before that, Jared played in a jazz band and I just loved sitting in my house listening to that music come out of the house. And something changed.

MUIR: And there was a change, you said. The family --

RIACH: There was a change.

MUIR: -- stopped talking to the neighbors and you tried to find out if it was something you or the neighbors had done. And when you asked the family, what was the answer?

RIACH: There was no answer. I was just glared at and turned a back on.

AMANPOUR: Dr. Laura Nelson's with you, David.

MUIR: And I suppose the next question would be for those who did know of the law, how easy is it to pick up that phone and is this a lesson for us all to take advantage of one of the safeguards that we've now learned is, in fact, in place?

DR. LAURA NELSON: Yes, it's absolutely a lesson for all of us. You talked about you wished you had had the courage. You recognized years ago that something had changed. And I think that's what we need to be focusing on now as a state and really as a country that there are opportunities to recognize signs and symptoms much earlier to the extent that you don't need to pull in law enforcement or necessarily call out a crisis team.

If we can engage the community into recognizing that mental illness is just like any other chronic physical condition, like diabetes or emphysema. It doesn't happen overnight. It is a gradual, progressive process and the earlier we identify those signs and symptoms, we engage this individual in communication and discuss what the options are, the better opportunities we have to get them into treatment voluntarily to get assistance and get help that they need.

MUIR: Christiane?

AMANPOUR: Let me turn to you, Congresswoman Wasserman Schultz/Is there something state leadership, national leadership can do about this mental health issue.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: There is, absolutely. This is not a gap in law enforcement. We have a tremendous gap in coverage for mental health care.

And, you know, as we turn in the next week back to the debate over health care reform -- Tuesday and Wednesday there will be a debate in the House over the proposal to repeal health care reform. And one of the things that we have an opportunity to discuss and debate, which has been highlighted as a result of this tragedy, is that in the health care reform law there is a provision that would develop a mental health basic benefit as part of the minimum benefits that everyone would have covered in their health care insurance plan.

Involuntary commitment in my state is called the Baker Act. I don't know what the involuntary commitment law is in Arizona, but it only allows for involuntary commitment for three days. You can involuntarily commit someone for three days, have them evaluated, they can be held and then they have to be released. And it is only the system that will -- that exists or lack thereof that we have to rely on in terms of when they're released, whether they're going to get the kind of follow-up treatment that they need.

AMANPOUR: When we return, the difficult question of keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. Stay with us.

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(Commercial Break)

AMANPOUR: one of the thorniest most difficult issues to raise, is the issue of guns. How did somebody like Jared Lee Loughner, how was he able to buy a gun? Interestingly, the people who sold Mr. Loughner the gun have told, in interviews, that they knew he was a little bit strange. But, by law, they felt that they could not refuse to sell him that Glock pistol.

So, the question is Chief Kastigar, how did that happen? How was he able to buy a gun? Should the gun owners - well, the gun shop - should the gun shop owners have called law enforcement? Should they have tried to delay, even though they were legally able and obligated to sell a gun to him?

KASTIGAR We are governed by those laws that those, in our legislature and the state, deem appropriate for the citizens of this state and this country. //I don't like the fact that very soon, we may allow teachers and students to carry guns in schools. And that's concerning, to me, because, I think, people who aren't mature enough to own a weapon, and deal with it, are the ones that are, likely, to cause the greatest problem in this society. We saw that happen just a week ago by some guy who got a gun within the confines of the law.

AMANPOUR: Well, let's me all of you. Everybody knows that there's a second amendment in this country. There is the right to bear arms. And, of course, Arizona is a state which is very fond of their guns and how many of you, here, actually, own guns? By a show of hands? Not even half. Maybe a quarter of this room.

Let me go to David Muir because this issue is, obviously, one that is very controversial. And what we're trying to figure out is not whether guns should be allowed, but whether, in certain instances, there are real grounds for controlling them.

MUIR: And we could point out that the Congressman, herself, Congressman Giffords, was a proud gun owner and talked openly about it while campaigning and as the Congresswoman here in this district.

And I wanted to bring in Geri Hills, you're gun control advocate. And I know it's dear to your heart. You lost someone, yourself, in a very similar situation.

GERI HILLS: Yes, standing here, today, brings me back to my beginning of this journey 16 years ago when my younger brother, Officer Adam Hills, was shot and killed in similar circumstances. He was off duty. And the shooter involved had a long history of mental health. He, also, used a semi-automatic weapon with an expanded clip. And, now, we're here 16 years later, and we're still talking about expanded clips, and mental health issues, and the right to bear arms. And I just wonder how many more of these do I have to attend? You ask what our takeaway is?

My takeaway is I pray I never have to come to another meeting like this, again. I have sat over the last 15 years my own experience. I have sat with families in Columbine, and Virginia Tech, and Otis Smith, here in Arizona, who lost her beautiful daughter Shannon, who we pat Shannon's Law in memory of. And it's time for this country to have a serious conversation and forget about being a Democrat or a Republican or a gun owner or a non-gun owner. As the President called us to on Wednesday, we need to do better. We can do better. And we can find common ground to stop this from happening.


AMANPOUR: Let -- let me ask you, Ken Badger about your -- you tackled the gunman. You also own a gun, yourself.

BADGER: My wife who's sitting right over here when our son, who is now 21 was born, she made me get rid of my .38. I do have a shotgun and -- and I do support, you know, that we need to have guns.

AMANPOUR: You say we need to have guns. That's -- that's the right. But what I want to know is have you changed your opinion in terms of who should be able to have them and whether there should be more rigorous control over who's able to get them in the wake of this incident that you are so --

BADGER: Yes. I definitely have. Because I was one that said, you know, I don't understand how an individual like this who applies to get in the military and is turned down from getting into the military, he can go purchase a gun.

I mean, there's something wrong with our laws and I think that's where we need to look at the -- at the laws.

AMANPOUR: Congressman, the lady back there told David Muir that it's time to have an honest debate in this community and perhaps in the country about this. Is that possible on this issue?

REP. RAUL GRIJALVA: I think we have to have this debate. This should be possible. As painful as that debate might be to some, it is essential. We have to talk about the issue of access. And that's not undercutting the second amendment at all, but who? And then we have to talk about, I think, munitions, the magazine, the caliber. These are all fair discussions to have now. MUIR: Christiane, Trent Humphries is a Tea Party member and I'm curious, Trent, if you could stand for just a moment.

The Congresswoman supported the second amendment. She had a gun. And I'm curious when you hear this that there needs to be debate from democrats and republicans in the room where you see this heading forward?

TRENT HUMPHRIES: Well, I mean, we talk about the other things too is we talk about how come nobody could be aware this man had a medical history of -- of that. But HIPAA laws would prevent that. It's not just gun laws that are standing in the way of this happening.

There are all kinds of laws that Congress needs to look at and -- and I think there is a time for this debate. But for what we saw and felt right now, I'm not sure that applause and things going on are appropriate right now until we've had actually, maybe had the funerals finished for the people that have --that were (sic) suffered and died.

My neighbor is one of those people. And -- and I loved that man. And -- and I want to see -- I want to see some introspection maybe from the people before the national debate happens. You know, and those -- and -- and it's very well to have those things. But something's going to have to happen with -- with everybody.

And -- and I just -- I mean, it's -- it's something that where as a country, we talk about political discourse and what's appropriate and what's not. I think that -- that applies to everybody including the media who's -- who's -- you know, and not in this -- this -- this has been a very, very cathartic thing for everybody.

Immediately after the shooting to see people jump to political angles. I just don't want to see that right now and I'm a very political person. So I -- I would ask that maybe we -- we have that discussion and it's a larger discussion and that -- and that we have that just a little bit later.

AMANPOUR: Up next, a time for healing. How Tucson and the country can learn from the tragedy, as our American conversation continues.

(Commercial Break)

AMANPOUR: I would like to ask some of the political leaders who we've invited, Representative Kolbe, Congresswoman Giffords ran for your seat when you retired in 2006, and she won. You, a Republican representative. What can Tucson and this community learn from what happened?

KOLBE: One hopes that from all of this there will come a more sensible, rational discourse on the topics -- the subjects that face this country. I -- I personally don't think that was responsible for this lone act of this very deranged young man. But I hope that out of it something good can come, and that would be if we can have a more civil, reasonable discourse on some of the subjects -- topics that we face.

But Gabby Giffords was doing the -- what all of us who are -- have been in Congress or in public office have done. That's get out there and meet with our constituents. And I don't think that that's going to change. I think members of Congress are going to continue to want to do that. And it's one of the risks we face.

AMANPOUR: Mayor Walkup, you've been a long time friend of -- of Gabby Giffords. You're a Republican. She's a Democrat. Do you think that the whole public politicking can continue -- the Congress on your corners showing the kind of connection between elected representatives and their constituents?

WALKUP Well, we have to. I don't know that I -- Gabby and I ever talked about that she's a Democrat and I'm a Republican. We always talked about what is the right thing for our people. What's the right thing for this community. And that drove her. And frankly, she brought all of us into that -- that feeling. And it's -- it's a deep feeling. But it -- it makes this job a great job.

AMANPOUR: My colleague, David Muir, there in the audience. And you have also some people who want to talk about the political situation here.

MUIR: Yes. I wanted to bring in Jason Rose, long time Arizona political consultant. I'm curious where you see this headed -- the discourse, and this talk of greater civility.

ROSE: Well, it's a -- it's a challenge to talk of politics at a time like this. But my observation would be this. There was a tragic shooting elsewhere in Southern Arizona a year ago. And it created a wilder west. I think the affect of this is going to be this tragedy in Tucson, a milder west. So I think the effect is going to have a moderating effect on the cauldron that has been Arizona.

AMANPOUR: Congresswoman?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: It is absolutely critical that we lead by example. That we take this opportunity to -- going forward -- not shrink from vigorously advocating our views, but stop treating our opponents like the enemy. And try to push the reset button on a more civil discourse because that's what Gabby was a leader on. That's what -- that's what her hopes were for the future.



HERNANDEZ: I think what we've seen is this big sense of the community coming together. Not just the Tucson, Arizona. But the national community. And we need to utilize this to have a more constructive, instead of destructive, political discourse in the future.Gabby has always been a proponent of getting work done by working constructively instead of trying to attack the other side for the beliefs that they hold. So I think that's what I take away.

BADGER: I totally support what Daniel just said, -- yes. But I think when you have an event as tragic as this why something good has to come out of it. And I -- and what I've seen so far, you know, as we forget about politics, and everybody in Tucson, and the people who are closely involved in this, just want to pull together and make sure that we do whatever is necessary so this never happens again.

AMANPOUR: Thank you so much. Thank you all of you


AMANPOUR: When we come back, a final note and an unexpected ending to our town hall.

(Commercial Break)

AMANPOUR: We've heard you grieve, we've heard you offer solutions and we've even heard you laugh. And that is something very, very, very important. Because it means, I think, that the human spirit remains alive even through tragedy.

From David Muir and from me, Christiane Amanpour, and all of us in Tucson, thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. We'll see you next week.


AMANPOUR: As our town hall concluded, one of the victims of the shooting, who was in our audience because agitated and was detained by security. James Eric Fuller, who was shot twice last Saturday, took offices at what another audience member had said and mumbled what seemed to be a threat. He was charged with a misdemeanor and involuntarily committed according to the Pima County Sheriff's office.

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