'This Week' Transcript 12-8-24: Rep. Ro Khanna, Rep. Byron Donalds & Retired Gen. Frank McKenzie

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, December 8, 2024 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

ANNOUNCER: “This Week With George Stephanopoulos” starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR (voice-over): Stunning takeover.

Overnight, Syrian rebels seized control of Damascus in a lightning offensive, overthrowing decades of brutal Assad family rule.

Syrians take to the streets in jubilation as Bashar al Assad reportedly flees. James Longman reports on the breaking developments and former CENTCOM commander, retired General Frank McKenzie, joins us.

A brazen murder grips the nation.

JESSICA TISCH, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: This was a premeditated pre-planned targeted attack.

RADDATZ: UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan. The murderer on the loose, as the manhunt now spreads across the country.

JOSEPH KENNY, CHIEF OF DETECTIVES, NYPD: We are seeking information from the public to help identify the shooter.

RADDATZ: This morning, Aaron Katersky and our law enforcement experts break down the latest.

Plus, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna on the fallout.

And --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: The first thing we have to do is get the criminals out of our country.

RADDATZ: Donald Trump taps hardliners for top border enforcement jobs as his defense secretary pick faces new challenges.

PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP’S PICK FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY: As long as Donald Trump wants me in this fight, I’m going to be standing right here in this fight.

RADDATZ: We speak with Republican Congressman Byron Donald and our powerhouse roundtable weighs in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's “This Week”. Here now, Martha Raddatz.

RADDATZ (on camera): Good morning.

As we come on the air this morning, we are tracking one of the most extraordinary events in Middle East history. In Syria, overnight, rebel forces sweeping through the capital city of Damascus, putting an end to the brutal 24-year dictatorship of Bashar al Assad. The rebels seen celebrating the stunning turn of events as people poured into the streets in jubilation at Assad's fall.

This will have a profound impact on the region and beyond, with almost all the major global powers involved in Syria's ongoing war including the U.S. Syria's allies Russia, Iran and Hezbollah have been weakened and distracted by their own conflicts, leaving Assad with little protection. In a moment, I’ll speak to the former commander of U.S. forces in the region, retired General Frank McKenzie on what this means including for the 900 U.S.-based forces in Syria.

But we begin this morning with ABC's chief international correspondent James Longman with the very latest.

Good morning, James.

JAMES LONGMAN, ABC NEWS CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Good morning, Martha.

Quite simply, Assad's regime was seen to be completely hollow without the support of Iran, Hezbollah and Russia. Bashar al-Assad inherited power from his father nearly years 25 ago. He's been clinging onto power through years of civil war. But now, a new rebel movement has managed to topple him in less than two weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LONGMAN (voice-over): This morning, history in Syria, with Syrian Dictator Bashar Assad overthrown with breakneck speed by rebel fighters. In his palace and office, in his private home, discovering the wealth that the Assad regime accumulated over decades in power.

The streets in the capital filled with people celebrating. Few saw this coming. Rebels in the state TV studio announcing their triumph saying the city of Damascus has been liberated. The tyrant Bashar al Assad has been toppled.

Al Jazeera’s Zeina Khodr in Damascus this morning following the rebel takeover.

ZEINHA KHODR, AL-JAZEERA JOURNALIST: This is the Umayyad Square. This is the center of the Syrian capital. And this is -- this is the Syrian state TV and radio which is now under the control of the opposition. People are in the -- there's a lot of celebratory gunfire.

LONGMAN: Rebel military operations command now claim Assad has fled Damascus. Assad's military appeared to completely dissolve, with rebels seizing Damascus with little opposition. The group managing to overrun key cities in less than weeks.

For 24 years, Assad ruled this nation propped up by allies Iran, Russia and Hezbollah, who helped him manage 14 years of civil war and the brutal crushing of the revolution against his regime. But Assad failed to fully reestablish control in the north with Turkey quietly supporting the various Islamist rebel groups jockeying for power.

Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, an offshoot of al-Qaeda, emerged from that chaos, taking advantage of wars in Ukraine, Gaza and Lebanon which weakened and distracted Assad's allies.

On Saturday, the group stormed the city of Homs where the Syrian rebellion began in 2011, also releasing prisoners who had opposed Assad's regime and languished in Syria's infamous jails for years.

Chants of long live Syria, down with al-Assad, and a group setting fire to a poster of the now former Syrian president. And earlier this week, rebels seized the city of Hama tearing down this large statue of Assad's father Hafez. Hundreds cheering in support.

President Biden and the United States have acted with caution with no plans to step in. U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan assessed the stunning rebellion on Saturday.

JAKE SULLIVAN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Assad's backers, Iran, Russia, and Hezbollah, have all been weakened and distracted and so he has not had the support from those three actors that he expected to be able to count on and has been left basically naked.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: And James joins us now.

And James, you have covered the Syrian conflict since its very beginning. How did this happen so fast?

LONGMAN: Well, quite simply no one saw this coming. The rebel movement has been boiling in Syria for some years, but without the support of his allies, Bashar al-Assad just could not keep them at bay.

I have been speaking to Syrians that I have met over the last 13 years. They are overjoyed at what they're seeing. They're desperate to go home. Millions of Syrians have been displaced by this war. Big question now, can whatever transition happens happen peacefully -- Martha.

RADDATZ: Our thanks to James Longman.

Former CENTCOM commander retired General Frank McKenzie joins me now.

And General McKenzie, this must have been extraordinary for you to watch, the speed of this happening.

GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE (RET), U.S. MARINE CORPS: Over the last 48 hours, it has been a remarkable chain of events. You know, bad news for a lot of people, less clear who the good news is going to be for, Martha.

RADDATZ: I want to take it country by country in a moment, but let's talk first about those U.S. troops. 900 U.S. troops in Syria. What happens to them? What do you think they should do at this point?

MCKENZIE: Well, Martha, it's important to understand why those troops are there. Our troops east of the Euphrates River paired with our SDF partners are there to keep a lid on ISIS and prevent violent extremist organizations from gathering strength and being able to attack the homeland of the United States.

ISIS aspires to attack us. As we know, ISIS launched a successful attack against Russia just a few months ago. That's why those troops are there. So any decision to bring them out we'd need to weigh that going forward, and I'm certain that the new administration will take a hard look on that when they come into office.

RADDATZ: But what about the chaos that's happening right now? The change that's happening. What does that mean for those U.S. troops who are there? Is there more danger?

MCKENZIE: We'll be able to defend ourselves. I think actually there's probably less danger right now than there was before because what you see are the Iranians, Lebanese Hezbollah, and in fact, the Russians are all on their back heels now as a result of what has just happened in Syria. One of the best equipped, best trained, and most capable forces in all of Syria today is actually our Kurdish partners east of the Euphrates River. They'll be able to defend themselves. I'm confident of that, Martha.

RADDATZ: And you brought up Russia, Iran, Hezbollah. What does it mean for all of those countries and the region?

MCKENZIE: They all placed -- they all placed a bet on Bashar Assad, and that bet has turned south for them. Russia's interest is maintaining its air base and naval base in the eastern shores of the Mediterranean. So they're going to try very hard to keep that base with whatever entity comes into power in the wake of Bashar Assad's departure.

The Iranians need Syria as a land bridge so that they can move equipment into Lebanon in order to threaten Israel. So that's going to be -- they're going to be very concerned about that, and of course, Lebanese Hezbollah has also propped up the Syrian regime for many years.

For all three of these entities, this is bad news because now they had a partner, not necessarily a good and capable partner, but a partner, and he is gone. He's left the stage so they're going to have to negotiate with who comes in. So it's bad news for them.

It's less obvious, Martha, who it's good news for. I'm not sure it's ultimately going to be good news for the people of Syria. You know, we could have an Islamic State arise there which will have profound negative implications across the region. That is possible. There are other possibilities as well, and I think in the next 48, 72, 96 hours, this will begin to become clearer to us.

RADDATZ: And you talk about an Islamic State. The Islamic group leading this rebel offensive is considered a terror group. They had ties to al Qaeda. Who are they? I know they say they're trying to be different now. What do you expect?

MCKENZIE: Well, we have a $10 million bounty on the head of that group, Jolani. So he has -- he has a significant track record. Certainly he could advance new ideas coming in. It's been my experience, though, that typically they don't.

I think what you're going to see is a -- is a period of infighting. You know, they'll hold the capital. They'll try to establish themselves. They'll try to seek recognition.

Russia will try to work their way back into their good graces. Iran will do the same.

I think Israel will be concerned about the possibility of attacks across Golan. It's my understanding that the Israelis have probably moved some forces into a buffer area in southern Syria in order to protect themselves.

So we're at a -- it's a significant moment in Syrian history. I wish I could be more hopeful that it will mean good news for the Syrian people. I think that's very unclear right now, Martha.

RADDATZ: And President-elect Trump has weighed in on his social media platform saying: Syria is a mess but is not our friend, and the United States should have nothing to do with it. This is not our fight. Let it play out. Do not get involved.

So what do you think will happen when President Trump takes office?

MCKENZIE: I think President Trump will look at the -- look at the merits of the case. Our interest in Syria is probably preventing violent extremist groups from being able to plan and execute attacks against our homeland and the homeland of our friends and partners abroad.

I agree with him, it's a -- it's a mess. They're no friend of ours. They've never been a friend of ours, but we have interests, and those interests are predict -- preventing attacks on the U.S. homeland from ungoverned spaces. If -- Syria could very well become an ungoverned space.

So we'll have to approach that and look at it as he comes into office and I’m sure he'll -- he'll take a good hard look at it.

RADDATZ: Okay. Thanks very much for joining us this morning. Very interesting.

Up next, we'll have the very latest on the urgent nationwide manhunt for the suspect in that brazen shooting of a healthcare CEO on the streets of New York. We're back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: This morning, an assassin is still on the loose and a nationwide manhunt is now in its fifth day to capture a bold and determined murderer who police say escaped New York City after gunning down healthcare executive Brian Thompson early Wednesday morning. We watched him stalk his victim in darkness and then flee on a bicycle. We saw what authorities believe are images of his smiling face days before at a Manhattan hostel.

But as of this hour, the suspect has neither been found nor even named. The brazen murder, the bullet casings found with “deny”, “defend” and “depose” etched on them, words and allegations sometimes leveled that insurance companies who avoid paying claims prompting a cascade of ugly reaction online.

We'll have more on that fallout in a moment but we begin with our senior investigative correspondent Aaron Katersky who is tracking the shooting mystery minute by minute.

Good morning, Aaron.

AARON KATERSKY, ABC NEWS SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good morning to you. The search for whoever gunned down the insurance executive outside this hotel here in midtown Manhattan is now nationwide. And for a fifth day, the NYPD with the assistance of some 60,000 surveillance cameras throughout the city is tracking the suspect's movements. And that forensic timeline begins 10 days before the insurance executive was gunned down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATERSKY (voice-over): Police say the suspected shooter arrived in New York two weeks ago, November 24th, on a Greyhound bus that originated in Atlanta. Police have not determined where he boarded. Just after 10:00 PM that night, officials say he pulled into Port Authority Bus Terminal and immediately took a taxi to the Hilton. A half hour later, he took another taxi to a hostel on Manhattan's Upper West Side, where he stayed for the next 10 days.

He checked in using a fake ID, paid with cash, and kept his face covered with a mask, except once he obliged the desk clerk, pulled down his mask and smiled, a moment captured by a surveillance camera and shared by police.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS, (D) NEW YORK CITY, NY: We're asking, every New Yorkian, American to look at the picture, the photo, and to assist us.

KATERSKY (voice-over): On Wednesday, December 4th, the morning of the shooting, the suspect set off before dawn, leaving the hostel at 5:41 AM. 11 minutes later, he was seen walking near the Hilton at 54th Street in Sixth Avenue. He then stopped into a Starbucks where police saw these images. He bought a granola bar and a water bottle from which police later took a smudged fingerprint.

Then the shooter went back to the hotel to wait. At 6:44 a.m., Thompson crossed Sixth Avenue from the hotel where he was staying to the Hilton, where he was going to present to an investor conference. He walked alone without security. Brian Thompson never saw his killer. The shooter approached from behind, opened fire, and left the Chief Executive of UnitedHealthcare dying on a Manhattan sidewalk.

JOSEPH KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: It does appear that the victim was specifically targeted. But at this point, we do not know why.

KATERSKY (voice-over): At the scene, police discovered shell casings with the words deny, defend, depose written in marker, one word per bullet. They are words associated with the insurance industry and echo a 2010 book "Delay, Deny, Defend: Why Insurance Companies Don't Pay Claims and What You Can Do About It." The suspect immediately fled on foot through an alleyway.

By 6:48, he was seen entering Central Park on an e-bike. He exited the park eight minutes later and was seen here, pedaling on West 85th Street near Columbus Avenue. By 7:00 a.m., police said the suspect had ditched the bike and minutes later, hailed a taxi. At 7:30 a.m., the suspect was seen on video near the bus station by the George Washington Bridge. It's believed he boarded a bus and escaped the city.

On Friday, police found what they believe to be the suspect's backpack in Central Park, containing a jacket and Monopoly money according to police sources. They also took DNA samples from a cell phone and other items recovered near the shooting scene. The Medical Examiner's Office is trying to find a match.

On Saturday, police searched a pond in Central Park near the spot where they discovered the backpack. They've not recovered the shooter's distinctive gun. Police said they're looking into the possibility it is a veterinary weapon used on farms and ranches to put down an animal without a loud noise. The gun does not have a silencer, but rather a long barrel that enables the 9-mm to fire a quiet shot.

Right now, police are working to determine whether Brian Thompson's killer may have been a disgruntled employee or a client of UnitedHealthcare who may have lost a relative or friend because of lack of insurance coverage options.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KATERSKY (on camera): The NYPD has fielded hundreds of tips that have come in from around the country. And Martha, they've now sent detectives down to Atlanta. That's where the bus the suspect is believed to have taken into New York City originated and they want to be on the ground to follow up any lead that comes in from there.

So far, the suspect has not been identified. The FBI is now joining to follow these leads from around the country. Martha?

RADDATZ: For the latest on how law enforcement is working to track down the shooter, I'm joined now by former NYPD Chief of Detectives, Robert Boyce, and Retired FBI Special Agent and Profiler, Mary Ellen O'Toole. Welcome to both of you. Thanks for joining us.

And let me start with you, Robert. It really has been remarkable watching this investigation unfold. Give us a sense of how they're doing this. They have all those cameras. This is kind of reminiscent of going after the Boston Bomber in 2013.

ROBERT BOYCE, FORMER NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning, Martha. It really is. It's a fascinating case and it's bifurcated. So you, right now you're in Central Park trying to find that evidence that he left there. You see, we found the backpack last night. There is no surprises with that, and he leaves -- he only has 12 minutes in the park. So you got to figure where he went on that bicycle and what happened to that weapon. You really want to recover that weapon.

He goes up the west side of the park and there's a lake right there. So they were dredging the lake last night looking for a possibility to recover that. When they get that weapon, you'll be able to help identify the perpetrator at some point and also put to bed all those things what it might be. So it's important.

The second part of this investigation is the apprehension -- identification, apprehension. Now, he left the city about 45 minutes after he committed this crime. That's really quick. We have him on a bus. We think we have him on a bus out of Upper Manhattan. If he takes it to any different spot and gets on another bus, that has to be tracked as well.

But right now the NYPD is looking at Atlanta, Georgia. So they have a base of operations there. Detectives went down there last night to forward information back from people they speak with because the number of tips they're getting is larger than anywhere else, those tips coming out of Atlanta, Georgia.

RADDATZ: But how much more difficult is it now that he has left New York City, and it is a nationwide search?

BOYCE: It complicates things, there's no doubt, but the NYPD -- listen. He did this in Manhattan. We have the largest police department in the country, second largest in the world. So we have a lot of resources and a lot of partners. So it complicates it, but it doesn't make it impossible. I've sent detectives all over the world at some point, especially in the United States. You operate and you send someone down there. You create a base and you go back and forth and you work with any police department in the country. So it complicates this, but it's not over. You can quickly overcome it with the right resources.

RADDATZ: And Mary Ellen, you were an FBI profiler. When you look at this case, when you look at him, when you look at those videos and what they've found in that backpack, they found Monopoly money. What does this all tell you about this suspect?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT AND PROFILER: When I look at the suspect and I look at his behavior from beginning to what we think is when he left New York City, there's a quality to it that suggests there's a little bit of practice there, and there's almost a lack of experience, and those two things are very different.

So what I mean by that is it looks like he practiced things. He probably had been to New York before and knew what the route was. He knew where the victim was going to be. He knew what his schedule was going to be. So that would come with knowledge, but the experience means -- is he an experienced assassin? And I would disagree with that. So practice versus experience --

RADDATZ: What about that Monopoly money?

O'TOOLE: There's almost a game-like quality to this behavior. So, for example, the way that he's caught on a number of video cameras, and I know with the ballistics, there were some interesting behaviors there as well. So that may come from the idea that the way he got practice is how? Video games, TV shows.

RADDATZ: That's a very interesting point, but those shell casings, those shell casings they said deny, defend, depose, can certainly offer some clues perhaps to motive.

O'TOOLE: They could, and the motive would be very specific then because then it would go to issues relative to the health and that system and being denied that sort of thing. However, when you have a game player who's your offender, you have to be open that that is a ruse to cause law enforcement to look in a different direction, and I'm sure they're aware of that. They are great investigators up there.

So they're looking at the possibility. It has to do with the medical field, but they're also considering the possibility maybe this offender wants us to look in a different direction.

RADDATZ: And Robert, I want to ask you, do you think the FBI at this point knows more than they are telling us? And are you surprised that there is no name yet? Given those pretty clear pictures of his face.

BOYCE: No, I'm not surprised but -- and we don't know that, to be honest with you, Martha. That he's not identified. I would -- in my time, it's 35 years in the police department, we don't give out the name once we get it until we make an apprehension effort. Once that fails, then you give out the name. So right now we really don't know. And it would be surprising.

But that image is pretty good. We have another one that came in from the cab where you have a partial. So things are mounting up right now so that's putting it out there, engaging the public through media, through social media, and through law enforcement partners, that's how this gets done. There's going to be a lot of phone calls on him.

RADDATZ: OK. We're so hopeful that they will catch him and catch him soon. Thanks to both of you.

O'TOOLE: Thank you.

RADDATZ: The murder has sparked shock, but also a cascade of vitriolic comments online towards insurers about the high cost of health care. Many with a blatant lack of sympathy towards the murder victim.

Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna joins me now, and this is obviously just a horrendous crime, but has this online vitriol surprised you?

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, first of all, let me just say it was horrific. I mean, this is a father we're talking about of two children, and my sympathies to the entire family. There is no justification for violence. But the outpouring afterwards has not surprised me.

Look, I, as a congressperson had UnitedHealthcare deny a prescription for a nasal -- a $100 pump spray, and I couldn't get them to reverse this. So imagine what ordinary people are dealing with.

The biggest denial comes when it's cancer treatment. I mean, people are getting denied on cancer treatment.

And my view is very simple why can't we have a rule that if a doctor prescribes something and if Medicare -- traditional Medicare is going to cover it, then private insurance companies should be forced to cover it? I mean, it's absurd in this country what's going on.

RADDATZ: I want to -- you retweeted a post by Bernie Sanders that said, yes, we waste hundreds of billions a year on healthcare administrative expenses that make insurance CEOs and wealthy stockholders incredibly rich while 85 million Americans go uninsured or underinsured. Healthcare is a human right. We need Medicare for All.

That's not really going to happen. So what would you say to those Americans who are frustrated right now?

KHANNA: Well, first of all, Bernie Sanders is absolutely right. I believe we can make Medicare for All happen.

He was retweeting Elon Musk who was pointing out that the United States spends the most on administrative waste. For -- if you care about efficiency in government, Medicare is 2 percent administrative fees. The private insurance, 18 percent that they're wasting.

But as we fight for Medicare for All, what we can do is require private insurance to cover anything that Medicare would cover. We can require a cap on out-of-pocket cost. We have to understand people with cancer, with heart disease, with diabetes, with insurance aren't getting the care that they need. They're getting stuck with huge medical bills.

And Bernie Sanders and I also have a bill to end medical bankruptcy.

But, finally, after years, Sanders is winning this debate and we should be moving towards Medicare for all.

RADDATZ: You -- you mentioned Bernie Sanders responding to Elon Musk. What he actually said, shouldn't the American people be getting their money's worth?

He and Vivek Ramaswamy have been asked by President Trump to lead the Department of Government Efficiency, DOGE.

What -- what do you think they could do in terms of health care realistically?

KHANNA: Well, they should look at the extraordinary waste and they will find that CBO has said Medicare is the most efficient, and they should be looking at where the private healthcare costs are.

But there are other areas that Bernie Sanders and I have said we could work together on the defense cost, defense contractors.

Look, Lockheed Martin has with the F-35s has gone about $200 billion over. There is waste when it comes to breast pumps being purchased at $1,400 instead of $200. Soap dispensers, $150,000 we paid Boeing for soap dispensers. That's the waste they should go after.

Now, there are places I disagree, Martha, just -- they should not touch a penny of Social Security. They should not touch the CFPB. They should not touch Medicare in terms of this funding.

RADDATZ: You -- you have been talking to Elon Musk. Tell us a little bit about those conversations. He has welcomed your input.

What -- what has that back and forth been like with Elon Musk? And what do you think about what a huge role he's playing so far?

KHANNA: Well, there's one area Elon Musk was brilliant in that he worked with President Obama and Ash Carter to have SpaceX, and that disrupted Boeing and Lockheed. We were getting ripped off, the American people, in putting satellites up to space.

And President Obama, under his leadership, Ash Carter's leadership, they said Elon with SpaceX, you can bid on launching these rockets. He had reusable lockets that --

RADDATZ: Okay, now go to your conversation with him. What -- what have you --

(CROSSTALK)

KHANNA: Well, we've talked about that. We've talked about that, and I made the case to him that Tesla and SpaceX have been funded by the Obama government and let's have a role for government. But let's look at what you did with SpaceX, why can't we do that with other parts of the five crimes (ph) to reduce costs?

I think when there comes to defense getting better defense for value and cutting costs, there can be huge bipartisan cooperation.

RADDATZ: And I want to talk to you just quickly as we finish up here. I spoke to you in March, right after the House passed a bill to effectively ban TikTok unless they got -- unless they divest it from their Chinese owner. You were against that and said you didn't think the bill would pass, First Amendment scrutiny.

Federal Appeals Court on Friday unanimously rejected TikTok's First Amendment argument.

So do you think that will be banned?

KHANNA: I don't think so. I mean, since I’ve been -- was on, I had a minority position. Now, every politician is celebrating their TikTok following. But let's see, look, let's see where it goes with the Supreme Court.

RADDATZ: Okay. Thanks so much for joining us this morning.

KHANNA: Thank you.

RADDATZ: We appreciate it.

Up next, we're just weeks to inauguration day when Donald Trump promises to launch his deportation program on day one. So what will that look like? We'll ask Trump ally, Congressman Byron Donalds, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: When you look at immigration today and the border and what's happened, and you see so many people coming across, what do you think?

JAVIER BARAJAS, RESTAURANT OWNER & NEVADA VOTER: I don't believe anymore on the Democratic Party because they promise and promise and they never do anything. So, I'm voting for Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: That was one of the many voters I spoke to this election cycle who said they were voting for former President Trump because of immigration. This week, the president-elect announced several new nominees and appointments to lead his aggressive immigration agenda, including Rodney Scott as Commissioner of Customs and Border Protection.

He led Border Patrol in the final years of Trump's last administration and the start of Biden's. Back in 2019, we toured 14 miles of the southern border with him near San Diego.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODNEY SCOTT, COMMISSIONER OF CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION NOMINEE: We cannot effectively control the border without barriers to slow down illegal entries.

RADDATZ: Is there any part of you still, or you look at that family and think, got to help.

SCOTT: On many, many levels, I feel compassion for those people, but I also feel compassion for the several thousand people that have been in line at the San Ysidro Port of Entry for several weeks, waiting to do it right, and those people literally just cut in line in front of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: Our thanks to Rodney Scott.

I am now joined by Republican Congressman Byon Donalds. Thanks for joining us this morning.

We know there were record-breaking border crossings during the Biden administration. But since June, migrant encounters between ports of entry have decreased by 55 percent. In every month since July, those encounters have been below 60,000. The last time those numbers were that low was when President-elect Trump was in office.

But you think more needs to be done.

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): Well, first of all, Martha, it's great to be with you. Second of all, the reason those numbers were decreasing since June is because Joe Biden was trying to win re-election. Obviously, he didn't make it to the election. Kamala Harris then tried to win the office, she couldn't get it done.

But the entire time, we knew that this border crisis was manmade and politically made by Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. So they were the ones that tried to tweak those dials, which you can do.

They were defeated. And so now what President Trump is going to do, he's going to secure our border, he's going to shut down illegal immigration and the American people are going to see those numbers go down even more. Secondly, a lot of what the Biden administration has been done is using the CBP One app for illegal immigrants to basically get an appointment time for when they can cross our southern border.

The American people have soundly rejected that. And so the appointees that have been made by President Trump to secure our nation on day one are going to get this under control and members of Congress working with Donald Trump are going to make sure that we secure our country's borders both southern and northern once and for all.

RADDATZ: Well, let's talk about how he's going to do it. He says he's going to declare a national emergency and use military assets to execute his mass deportation plan. What does that look like?

DONALDS: Well, first and foremost, we've been very clear throughout the entire campaign that the first order of business is going to be removing, repatriating these criminal illegal aliens almost to the tune of a million of them back to their home countries. That is step one. Step two, we already talked about making sure that our borders whether it's at --

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ: But how do you do that? I want some detail there.

DONALDS: Or in -- or in the illegal points that they're not allowed to come through. Say that again? I'm sorry.

RADDATZ: Give me some detail there. How are they going to do this? What's the military going to do?

DONALDS: Well, first of all, when you're talking about military assets being used, that's only in a -- in an extreme last resort. There are more than 6,000 officers who have been -- who have dedicated their lives to having to remove illegal aliens from our country, people who already have a legal deportation order but they haven't -- it hasn't been effectuated by Joe Biden.

What Donald Trump is going to do, we're going to repatriate those people using those personnel at ICE and other parts of the -- of the Department of Homeland Security to remove them. I think if you're going to use military assets, that's in the last resorts but that's only for logistical purposes, Martha.

So I think that what we have to be very careful of is not to try to throw out this idea that you're going to have troops in the United States going door to door. That is not going to happen.

RADDATZ: A recent analysis found it would cost about $315 billion and take at least 10 years to deport everyone in the U.S. without legal status. You often talk about the need to cut government spending. So how is this mass deportation going to be paid for?

DONALDS: Well, but, Martha, I will tell you what we already know is, is that the cost of massive illegal immigration to the federal government, to state governments and to local governments is more than $150 billion per year. So if you're going to say that it cost us $300 billion over a decade to repatriate illegal aliens to their home country versus the American taxpayer having to pay more than a trillion dollars over the same decade to keep those illegal aliens in the United States, that is a savings to the American people.

And so it is important that, yes, we are going to have to use resources to repatriate these people back to their countries where they belong but it pales in comparison to the costs of massive illegal immigration in the United States, not just with trying to subsidize people living here, but it's also the crime that has occurred.

You could bring up Rachel Nungaray with the tragedy that happened to her. Laken Riley, the tragedy that's happened to her. Not to mention the displacement of the American people in their own cities when it comes to resources by rampant illegal immigration.

RADDATZ: Congressman --

(CROSSTALK)

DONALDS: As far as I'm concerned, this is a savings for the American people.

RADDATZ: Congressman, quickly if you will, how many undocumented immigrants do you expect President Trump to deport during his four years? There are 11 million, 13 million, how many?

DONALDS: Listen, as far as I'm concerned, stopping the flow is number one. And then at a minimum, I would say just speaking with you anecdotally, it's at a minimum going to be two million, but it's going to be more because the amount of people who already have a deportation order, people who are in our country who have committed crimes, people who have already been convicted of murder, they need to go and go immediately.

And then when you have an active deportation process, we do know that there are aliens who are going to want to go back to their home country. They're not going to want to be caught up in the process of dealing with ICE because if you're deported through that process, then you will actually be barred from returning to the United States for a period of 10 years. So I think what you're going to see --

RADDATZ: OK, I'm going to have to have you stop you there.

(CROSSTALK)

DONALDS: -- is that one when you turn off -- Martha, this is -- hold on, Martha, real quick. When you turn off the spigots of opening our borders, when you turn off the spigots of all this aid going to illegal aliens in the United States, and then you have a president of the United States and a government who is serious about repatriating people back to their home country, you will see that the enticement of coming to America is not going to be what it was under Joe Biden.

RADDATZ: Okay, thanks for joining us this morning. We appreciate it, Congressman.

Up next, the roundtable breaks down the latest on the Trump transition and President Biden's pardon of his son Hunter. We're back in a moment.

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RADDATZ: The roundtable is all here ready to take on another busy week in Washington and around the world.

We'll be right back.

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RADDATZ: Let's bring in our Powerhouse Roundtable, Former DNC Chair, Donna Brazile; Former RNC Chair and Trump White House Chief of Staff, Reince Priebus; ABC News Contributing Politico Correspondent, Rachael Bade, who was just named as Politico's New Capital Bureau Chief and Senior Washington Columnist; and New Yorker Staff Writer, the great Susan Glasser.

I'm going to start with you, Rachael, with all your new titles there.

(LAUGH)

RADDATZ: Donald Trump just said on NBC, speaking of immigration, that he is willing to work with Democrats for a plan to keep -- protect Dreamers, the people who came into this country as children.

RACHAEL BADE, POLITICO CAPITOL BUREAU CHIEF & SENIOR WASHINGTON COLUMNIST & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTING POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, first of all, someone should step check on Stephen Miller and his blood pressure right now, because I'm sure this is not something that his top immigration advisor is going to want to hear. But look, I guess I take -- I see this in two ways.

Number one is if he wants to pass a big immigration bill through Congress, he's probably going to have to give to some moderate Republicans or Democrats. But, to me, this more seems like him trying to sort of give a little sugar to make the medicine go down. I mean, Donald Trump, he has made clear he's going to deport migrants. He's going to crack down at the border on day one.

I mean, he was just talking about trying to end birthright citizenship. That's obviously not going to happen --

RADDATZ: He said that before, yep.

BADE: -- because it's in the Constitution. But look, maybe he's trying to sort of soften things right now. But, he ran on immigration and he's going to be tough on immigration. And so, people should expect that. And this kind of seems a little bit of an odd tone to me.

RADDATZ: And same kind of doubling down in this interview as well about Pete Hegseth, who he seemed to be wavering there for a while, his pick as defense secretary, but really doubling down now.

SUSAN GLASSER, THE NEW YORKER STAFF WRITER: Yeah, I mean, look, of course, we all know about former and future President Trump that he likes to fight. He has chosen a certain number of extremely confrontational nominees. But remember, the math is the math in the U.S. Senate. Pete Hegseth is in trouble as a defense secretary nominee because --

RADDATZ: With all these new allegations.

GLASSER: It -- there are array of allegations both about his personal conduct, about his alleged mismanagement of two small veterans' groups that he was in charge of running. This is the world's largest, most complex bureaucracy. Some of his views as well have caused great concerns for key Senators. For example, his questioning of women in combat roles.

You can -- he can only afford to lose three Republican senators. And the math suggests that his nomination remains in trouble as a result of that.

RADDATZ: And Donna, perhaps the most important player in all of this is Joni Ernst who has met with him. She's the first female veteran to serve in the Senate. She met with Hegseth this week. Let's put up what she said after that meeting.

"I appreciate Pete Hegseth's service to our country, something we both shared today as part of the confirmation process. We had a frank and thorough discussion, not exactly a rousing endorsement. But late Friday, she tweeted that they plan to meet again. But she is key.

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: No question. First of all, she's a champion of women in the military. She's a veteran herself. She speaks for not just Republicans, I think Republican women, but she speaks for women in general when she is concerned about these allegations against the nominee for the Defense Department. She has every right to ensure that he is properly vetted and given a hearing, but I think what her main message is, is that women in the military will be respected.

BADE: It's amazing to me that, just real quickly on Joni Ernst, the Trump campaign clearly is trying to make an example of her right now. I mean, look. There's a pressure campaign going on behind the scenes. I mean, people are talking about her divorce records, talking -- threatening about primarying her, calling her a RINO, Republican in name only.

This sort of pressure isn't going to help Pete Hegseth get to, you know, his confirmation, but what it does is send a message to other Republicans you stand against Donald Trump's nominees, we're coming after you, too.

RADDATZ: So, Reince, I want to ask you because you've seen the stories. You've seen the allegations. Hegseth says now he is a changed man. Do you think, from what you've read, that he had a problem with alcohol?

REINCE PRIEBUS, FORMER RNC CHAIR: Well, I don't know whether he did or didn't. I think he is a changed man. I think I've seen that myself just in talking to him over the years. But these are all --

RADDATZ: And what do you mean by that? I mean --

PRIEBUS: Well, because I have had personal conversations with him, talking about faith. When I worked in the White House, I met with Pete. I talked to him a few times during this process. I get the sense of a pretty -- a good spirit in Pete, but one thing I just want to keep in mind, the number one, these are -- the keyword here are allegations, and the Senate is going to have an opportunity to take Donald Trump's nominee and examine the nominee and make a decision.

I'm not so sure that pressure isn't going to work. I think pressure has worked pretty well for Donald Trump over the years, and he's won about everything that he's -- that he's set himself out to win. The last thing --

BADE: Not on Obamacare repeal when you were chief of staff.

PRIEBUS: That's true, but those people paid a price, too, and they're no longer around. The other piece is I think this election was about, you know, what has these traditional picks done for us in this country? I mean, we've got debt out of control. We've got low morale in the military. So yes. You know what? Pete's not a traditional pick, but part of this election was the American people saying, I think we're kind of going against traditional right now for a while. We're going to see how we do.

RADDATZ: Well, Donald Trump sort of did that the first time around, too. Donna?

BRAZILE: Absolutely. Well, look --

PRIEBUS: And here he's back -- he's back in action in France.

BRAZILE: Well, he's back in action. But look, the pressure campaign I think is going to work up to a point, and because many of these Republicans are institutionalists and they respect not only their constitutional responsibility, but they also understand that the norms and rules should not all be broken simply because Donald Trump or his allies will threaten you with, you know, a primary.

(CROSSTALK)

GLASSER: And I would just point out that there's one thing which is the question of Pete Hegseth's extreme views which fall outside the mainstream, and which may be an example of what Reince is talking about in terms of Trump's, you know, desire to sort of blow up the system right now, but then there's many of these allegations that go to his personal conduct, to his behavior towards women, to his use or abuse of alcoholism.

That has nothing to do with his faith. Remember that in NBC's report about the nominee, they were quoting 10 current and former FOX employees expressing concerns up to recent weeks about his behaviors.

RADDATZ: Which he denies, but at the same time --

GLASSER: Right, exactly.

RADDATZ: -- he says he's a changed man. So that's -- I want to talk about, if he makes it, Susan, and you know the Pentagon well, he is someone who said he doesn't think women should be in combat. He doesn't like diversity training. So how do you think that would go over in the Pentagon?

GLASSER: Yes. I mean, I'm really struck by -- it's a very different view of national security that you hear from Hegseth, that you hear from another of the incoming president's controversial nominees, Kash Patel. It's essentially repivoting the idea of America First to be about national security threats from within. They've talked about the enemy within. Hegseth's writings and speaking in recent years have focused on internal, you know, essentially loyalty tests or the idea that, quote-unquote, "woke generals" are undermining our national security.

It's going to be a focus on the institution itself rather than external enemies and that's in line with what Trump has been saying.

RADDATZ: Not only the enemies within, but we -- which leads me to what Joe Biden said this week. He's already pardoned his son, but he said he may give pre-emptive pardons to people like Mark Milley, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, people who were in Kash Patel's book, for instance, a Liz Cheney or a -- go ahead, Reince.

PRIEBUS: He has an opportunity to do that as president of the United States. He'll make the decision. He has that power. The other piece of this, the two quick things that are missing here. Number one, we're -- Pete Hegseth's two bronze stars, three tours, Princeton, Harvard. He is no dummy, and he knows the military, number one.

Number two, there's going to be a -- there's going to be a deputy secretary. They're talking about potentially Stephen Feinberg from Cerberus. He is a big brain guy who runs massive, detailed finance company in Wall Street. So, it's not just Pete Hegseth running the department.

The second thing is Donald Trump is getting stronger. He's in France; Biden is in Angola. Trump's talking about hell to pay. Biden is talking about don't do that. It's between strength and weakness. And Donald Trump is actually getting stronger as we move forward through this year.

PRIEBUS: Reince, I want to stick to these pardons for a moment, which we have reported that he is considering. Didn't actually say that out loud, but Donna, what do you think about that idea of the pre-emptive pardons?

BRAZILE: I think every --

RADDATZ: And what if they don't want one? Adam Schiff has already said, I don't want one.

BRAZILE: Well, that's fine. I mean, there's some precedent for that versus a blanket pardon system. But look, the bottom line is the president has the power to do it. We know why he did it, his son has been harassed, his son has been prosecuted for crimes that often when you pay your taxes and the penalties, no one is threatening you with jail time. They happen to get the money and let's say -- let's get the next person.

The president has every right to wrestle with these decisions, and I hope he comes out with something that is standard and something that everyone can apply for.

RADDATZ: And Rachel, I want to end with you. We only have about 20 seconds, but I want to go to Syria.

BADE: Yeah.

RADDATZ: And what has happened there overnight, really stunning. And comments Tulsi Gabbard, who is his nominee for Intelligence Chief.

BADE: Yeah. You know, she has benefited from the fact that we're all talking about Hegseth and a few weeks ago, Matt Gaetz. But look, she visited Assad in 2017 when he was killing his own people. She has been pro-Russia in the past. I mean, Democrats have said that she's a Russian asset. This is going to bring her nomination back into the spotlight in a way that is not beneficial to her or Donald Trump.

RADDATZ: OK. Thanks to all of you. We have so much more to talk about as the year rolls on. We'll be right back.

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RADDATZ: That's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. And we leave you on a happy note with images of Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral re-opening this weekend, five years after that devastating fire. Have a great day.

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