'This Week' Transcript 9-22-24: John Kirby, Rep. Mike Kelly and Rep. Jason Crow

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, September 22, 2024 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

ANNOUNCER: THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "THIS WEEK" ANCHOR: Election end game.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Vote Trump and we will bring back the American dream bigger, better and stronger than ever.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S. (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And with your help in November, we will win.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Just over six weeks to go, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump crisscross the battlegrounds as two Republican-led states push for last-minute voting changes.

And scandal engulfs North Carolina’s GOP nominee for governor.

LT. GOV. MARK ROBINSON (R), NORTH CAROLINA GUBERNATORIAL NOMINEE: And we are not getting out of this race. There are people who are counting on us to win this race.

STEPHANOPOULOS: This morning, Rachel Scott reports. Rick Klein breaks down the latest polling. Plus analysis from Chris Christie, Donna Brazile. And Jon Karl joins our powerhouse roundtable.

Major escalation. Israel and Hezbollah launch strikes on the Lebanese border after coordinated attacks targeting Hezbollah operatives, sparking fears of an all-out war.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: We don't want to do any escalation actions by any party.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Martha Raddatz is live in Tel Aviv. And White House National Security Spokesman John Kirby joins us live.

Heightened alert.

RONALD ROWE JR., U.S. SECRET SERVICE ACTING DIRECTOR: The threat environment in which the Secret Service operates is tremendous and under constant threat.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The Secret Service reels from a second Trump assassination attempt, and increasing threats to public officials. Pierre Thomas reports on the security environment. Plus, the latest from the congressman leading the Trump shooting task force.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's THIS WEEK. Here now, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning and welcome to THIS WEEK.

We are just over six weeks from the final votes in one of the closest and most unusual elections in American history. Voting has already begun in some states. Trump and Harris basically tied. And the handful of battleground states that will determine the outcome are being flooded by the campaigns with money, ads, volunteers and, of course, the candidates.

In the last three days, events in Michigan, Georgia, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and North Carolina. Rachel Scott was there Saturday, where Donald Trump rallied Republicans who were rocked late last week by the scandal engulfing their candidate for governor.

Good morning, Rachel.

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: George, good morning to you.

With just 44 days to go, Donald Trump rallied supporters in North Carolina. But it is who was not on that stage with him that could swing the battle for this swing state.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hello to North Carolina.

SCOTT (voice over): with the 2024 campaign entering its final weeks, Donald Trump headed to the critical battleground state of North Carolina, a must win for his campaign to take back the White House.

TRUMP: We're going to win this election.

SCOTT (voice over): But notably absent, the Republican he endorsed for governor, Mark Robinson. Robinson has been surrounded in controversy and scandal after CNN reported he made racist and inflammatory posts on a pornographic website years ago, from allegedly calling himself a, quote, “black nazi,” to writing, “slavery is not bad,” adding he wished it would come back.

ABC News has not independently confirmed the reporting.

LT. GOV. MARK ROBINSON (R), NORTH CAROLINA GUBERNATORIAL NOMINEE: The things that you will see in that story, those are not the words of Mark Robinson.

SCOTT (voice over): But some Republicans in this state aren't buying that, telling us they're concerned that Robinson is going to be a drag on the ticket.

SCOTT: Does it give you some pause?

JAMES SMITH, NORTH CAROLINA VOTER: Yes. Yes, it does.

SCOTT (voice over): the Harris campaign wasting no time, putting out this ad tying Trump to Robinson.

TRUMP: I've been with him a lot. I've gotten to know him, and he's outstanding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump and Mark Robinson, they're both wrong for North Carolina.

SCOTT (voice over): On Saturday, Trump didn't even mention Robinson by name. The former president keenly aware of just how important North Carolina is and just how much polls show he's losing ground to female voters.

TRUMP: Women will be happy, healthy, confident and free. You will no longer be thinking about abortion, because it is now where it always had to be, with the states and with the vote of the people.

SCOTT (voice over): Harris has seized on Trump's record, appointing three of the Supreme Court justices who overturned Roe versus Wade.

HARRIS: In more than 20 states, we have Trump abortion bans, many with no exceptions even for rape and incest. It is immoral. It is immoral.

SCOTT (voice over): Polls show Trump is leading Harris on key issues, the economy and immigration. But the vice president raised four times more than Trump in August and has a slight edge in key battleground states, all of it leaving Trump still complaining, publicly and privately according to sources, that President Biden is no longer in the race. And after Harris challenged him to a second debate, Trump once again rejected it.

TRUMP: She's done one debate. I've done two. It's too late to do another. I'd love to in many ways, but it's too late.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCOTT (on camera): Yes, that second debate looking very unlikely.

Even though early voting is already getting underway, some states are looking to change the rules. So, in Nebraska, for instance, Republicans are pushing to change their five electoral votes to winner take all. And in Georgia, the Republican-led election board voting to have all ballots counted by hand.

George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Rachel, thanks very much.

Let's bring in our Washington bureau chief, political director Rick Klein. He's here with the breakdown.

Rick, what do we know about what the latest polls say, where things stand?

RICK KLEIN, ABC NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF & POLITICAL DIRECTOR: George, it’s been almost two weeks since that ABC debate. And right now national polling has had a consistent edge for Kamala Harris. In fact, a new poll out this morning nationally has a five-point lead, 49-44.

But the story in the battleground states remains as tight as it's ever been. Right now Harris with a very narrow lead in four of the seven big battlegrounds. The closest of the battlegrounds, though, North Carolina, where Rachel just reported from. Trump up by just 0.2 percentage point. That’s essentially a tie. And that’s why Republicans are so worried about what the impact of that scandal could be.

Imagine a world where that – that once reliably red North Carolina goes blue. If Harris is able to take North Carolina and maintain the edge she has now in Wisconsin and Michigan, that puts her at 266 electoral votes if everything else holds the same. She could clinch the presidency, 270 electoral votes, by winning either Nevada or Arizona. In that scenario, she doesn't have to worry about Georgia or even the biggest of the battlegrounds, Pennsylvania.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You just mentioned Nevada and Arizona. Latino votes so critical there.

KLEIN: Yes. And right now our latest polling shows a solid lead among Latino voters for Kamala Harris. Seventeen points in our latest ABC/Ipsos poll from just a couple of days ago.

But that isn’t nearly the kind of edge that she has among black voters or Asian voters. And it isn’t nearly the edge that previous Democratic candidates for president have had. A 30 plus point advantage for Joe Biden in the exit polls among Latino voters from four years ago. Hillary Clinton won Latino voters by 40 points. And, of course, she still lost the presidency. So, there’s some real ground to make up across demographics, but particularly with – with – with Latino voters. Kamala Harris has some issues that she’s got to attend to.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you’ve been working with FiveThirtyEight to look at how changes in that vote could impact the election.

KLEIN: Yes and this is really interesting, George. If you just start with the map that we saw from four years ago, this is how Biden won the presidency. This is how it might look different, though, if those margins among Latino voters maintain where they are.

Again, our partners at FiveThirtyEight looked at this. And if that 17-point edge for Harris comes through, that’s not enough for her to overcome the Trump – the Trump advantage in Nevada or Arizona. He could flip both of those states, in addition to Wisconsin and Georgia. That puts him at 262 electoral votes. And then all he's got to do is hold on to North Carolina, which we reported on earlier, to win back the presidency.

George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Rick Klein, thanks very much.

Let's bring in our political experts, Chris Christie and Donna Brazile. They're right here with me this morning.

Got to start with North Carolina. Chris, let me begin with you. The Republican candidate, Mark Robinson, says he is staying in. A lot of Republicans in that state were wishing otherwise.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, this is the Trump approach to this stuff, right, George. You know, Robinson is emulating what he believes Donald Trump would do, which is say, hell, you know, I’m not getting out, despite all of the problems that his candidacy is creating.

And here's the other thing, this was predictable.

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

CHRISTIE: This was predictable. Mark Robinson’s tenure in public life has shown erratic, sometimes highly offensive statements over and over again. And Donald Trump supported him. And endorsed him. In fact, called him better than Martin Luther King. Martin Luther King Jr. on steroids, all right.

BRAZILE: That's right.

CHRISTIE: So, this was predictable. And this is the problem for us Republicans. As long as Donald Trump is your recruiting agent for candidates in swing states, we're going to continue to get our rear ends handed to us. And Mark Robinson is not going to win this race, can't win this race.

STEPHANOPOULOS: He's about 10, 12 points behind right now.

CHRISTIE: Right. He’s – and he’s running against, by the way, a very formidable candidate in the attorney general Josh Stein.

BRAZILE: Yes, Josh. Right.

CHRISTIE: So, the fact is, this was going to be a tough race no matter what. And the problem for them now, George, is, how much will it affect the top of the ticket.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, and I want to ask Donna about that. The Harris campaign clearly sensing an opportunity here.

But reverse coattails don't usually work.

BRAZILE: That's correct. But – but I think in the case of – of Mark Robinson, I mean Governor Christie is correct, he has been a provocative candidate from the time he attended a Greensboro city council hearing when the city council was considering whether or not to have a gun show. And he walked in there, you know, pistols blazing, so to speak, literally. And that – that became his so-called ticket to success.

I think this could have an impact on the electoral count. North Carolina is a tough state, but it's getting bluer by the minute, maybe pink, not blue. But the Democrats have an opportunity to go to eastern North Carolina, to go beyond Charlotte and Raleigh, the triangle and to find those voters in the rural areas, if they can find those voters in the rural areas, also the northern suburbs of Charlotte, Mecklenburg County -- look, it's one of those states that I visited a lot in my political lifetime. It's where my grandfather was born.

If the Harris campaign is serious, they will not only tie Trump to Mark Robinson, that shouldn't be a hard, you know, mix to put together they have to really answer some questions on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And I want to put that to Chris.

Does Donald Trump have to do more to distance himself from Robinson? Yesterday, of course, he didn't mention his name, he also didn't repudiate him.

CHRISTIE: Right. Well, this -- Mark Robinson is starting to get the feel for what it's like to have been a former friend of Donald Trump's.

Donald Trump, from a political perspective, smells rotting flesh better than anybody you'll ever find and he sees this guy dying, and he's getting to making the distance. And I bet you, George, before we get to November 5th, he's going to claim tonight even really know who Mark Robinson is.

BRAZILE: Yeah.

CHRISTIE: You know that play he makes, where he goes -- we don't really know each other all that well I’ve never known him all that well and he's kind of latching on to me. I think you will see Trump distance himself more and more, because remember something -- the thing that makes I think North Carolina a little bit different is that you have Roy Cooper, the incumbent two-term governor --

STEPHANOPOULOS: Democratic.

CHRISTIE: Democrat, former attorney general. Now you have an attorney general, Democrat running for governor.

The law enforcement issue which is so important to these swing voters, they can sell in North Carolina that Democrats have done well from a law enforcement perspective different than in some other states. And so that combination of things I think makes North Carolina really interesting, and I think Trump's going to see he's going to have to distance himself from Robinson.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Donna, we saw that. We saw Kamala Harris yesterday say she wants that CNN debate. Trump says he's not going to do it. Do you believe that?

BRAZILE: No, I don't. I think -- yesterday, Donald Trump said no, tomorrow he might go back to being undecided about and by the end of next week, with the polls moving in Vice President Harris's direction, he may change his mind.

Look, he knows there are 67 million reasons to try to do another debate. That debate had a huge audience. The vice president did extremely well.

But again, I want to go back to what I said earlier -- she has to close this deal by talking about the economy. She has to close this deal with voters by making sure that they understand what she will do differently to help them in their everyday lives.

And if she can get this debate with Donald Trump and do an incredible job, I think it will help her win this race.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Chris, going in the first way you said Donald Trump would do it if he needed to do it, does that dynamic still hold?

CHRISTIE: Yes. Look this is -- you know, these debate decisions, George, are tactical. They're not philosophical. They're -- they're tactical, and if the -- if the polls continue to move a bit away from Trump, you know how much he focuses on that and he's going to need something to change it.

And in today's media landscape, absent a big mistake by one or the other, this is the only thing --

STEPHANOPOULOS: But his confidence has been shaken after the first debate.

CHRISTIE: Come on. His confidence shaken? No, he -- he will convince himself that if she gets in the ring with him again that he'll knock her out. That'll be his mindset.

Now, whether he'll do the work that's going to be necessary to be prepared which he clearly did not do the last time is a completely open question. But I’ll say this -- he needs it. I think she agreed to the CNN debate because she knows that will be the least agreeable venue for him.

So she may be able to get herself out of this and not debate again by saying no, CNN or nothing, and then he's going to have to make that judgment. I think he'll eventually capitulate.

BRAZILE: Look, Donald Trump was rattled in that last debate. I mean, she got him talking about Haitians eating pets. We're still talking about that 12 days later, which the governor of Ohio has rejected, the mayor who's a Republican Ohio rejected.

But Donald Trump is still talking about it because he's still trying to rally his base. He has not pivoted to the middle. He's not talking to independent voters.

He's still huddled in this small little, you know, camp, and it's a -- it's a -- it's a strong camp, no question about it. But he's on -- he's incapable of staying on message. He's incapable of driving home closing arguments to win this election.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Chris, put on your old hat. If Donald Trump called you today and said, what do I need to do to win this race, what's the answer?

CHRISTIE: Well, it is that he's got to go back to talking about two things and two things only -- affordability and the border, and tie the border to people's perception that law enforcement is a problem in this country. And so, those are the things he needs to do because those are the places where the vice president is perceived to be the weakest.

And so, instead, what he's did, and Donna said this, was to go off the deep end at the debate, you know, jumping to debate about the money he inherited from his father.

BRAZILE: Yeah.

CHRISTIE: Jumping to the debate about, you know -- the size of rally crowds and whether they stay or they go. He's got to decide, do I want to win this race or do I want to protect what I perceive myself to be?

BRAZILE: But do I want to stop the government?

I mean Donald Trump is encouraging Republicans to shut down the government, as if that’s going to help the American people, the American economy.

CHRISTIE: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What does – what does Kamala Harris need to do?

BRAZILE: Kamala Harris needs to talk to independents. She needs to make sure that her team is not comfortable on the ground, knock on more doors, and, yes, there are a small number of people in certain states that must be touched, and they're not loving in urban cities. They’re living in the – in rural areas in the suburbs. She has to go directly to them.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Thank you both very much.

CHRISTIE: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Up next, after dramatic escalation by Israel against Lebanon this week, Martha Raddatz reports from the region. And I'm going to speak with John Kirby from the White House.

We're back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it realistic to get to a ceasefire deal or have too many bad things happen to (INAUDIBLE)?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I ever said it's not realistic, we might as well leave. A lot of things don't look realistic until we get them done. We have to keep at it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: President Biden on Friday responding questions on the major escalation of attacks between Israel and Hezbollah on Lebanon.

Chief global affairs anchor Martha Raddatz has been reporting from the region. She joins us now from Tel Aviv.

Good morning, Martha.

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR”: Good morning, George.

This morning, a senior U.S. official tells me that the table is set for escalation. The U.S. seeing signs that a larger conflict with Lebanon looks like it is inevitable. And there's certainly signs here this morning that this conflict is only heating up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ (voice over): This morning, a barrage of rocket fire into northern Israel, with Hezbollah launching more than 150 rockets, most within 45 minutes, across a wide swath of territory and deeper into Israel than most prior strikes. Air raid sirens wailed with Hezbollah warning this is just a preview of what's to come. And Israeli forces saying their strikes against Hezbollah will only intensify.

For the Israelis who remain in the north, the fears are intense. At this kibbutz in Tuval, just over ten miles from the Lebanese border, residents Paul and American Susan Nirens hear the crossfire every day.

RADDATZ: It's pretty scary times?

PAUL NIRENS, KIBBUTZ TUVAL RESIDENT: Well, it is, obviously. And so I try not to worry about it. I might sound cool. I'm not quite as cool as I sound. It’s – because it is – it is worrying. I can't – I can’t deny that.

RADDATZ (voice over): The kibbutz has close to 400 people, nearly 150 of them children.

RADDATZ: The people in this kibbutz have not had to evacuate, but at least 60,000 Israelis, just a little closer to the Lebanese border, have now had to leave.

RADDATZ (voice over): And those are the people who Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed to get back to their homes and stop the daily Hezbollah attacks, a goal that became clearer than ever this week. It began Tuesday.

An official confirming Israel detonated hundreds of hand-held pagers across Lebanon through shell companies that manufactured and eventually sold those explosive-laden pagers to Hezbollah. Then on Wednesday, Israel detonating walkie-talkies used by Hezbollah.

Our Marcus Moore was just 20 feet away when one exploded.

MARCUS MOORE, ABC NEWS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: We just heard a loud explosion, and I saw a man whose hands were gone, and then somebody pulled out a weapon, and people scattered.

RADDATZ: The leader of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah, calling the attacks an act of war, and on Friday, Israel capping a week of escalating attacks with a deadly strike right in Beirut, killing one of the militant group's top commanders, Ibrahim Aqil, wanted by the U.S. for his role in the massive bombings of the American embassy and Marine Corps barracks in Beirut in 1983, attacks which killed more than 300 Americans.

The Friday strike leveling a residential building wounding many and killing at least 45. And this morning, another signal that the war could escalate, Israeli forces raiding the office of Al Jazeera in the West Bank while a reporter was live on television, ordering the employees to leave immediately and shut down operations for the next 45 days. Al Jazeera has been reporting extensively on the war in Gaza.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ (on-camera): And, George, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu this morning appearing to set aside U.S. advice to de-escalate the situation in the north, saying, we will take whatever action is necessary to restore security and to bring our people safely back to their homes -- George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Martha Raddatz, thanks.

Let's bring in John Kirby, National Security Council spokesman from the White House.

John, thank you for joining us this morning. You just heard Martha's finish right there. Prime Minister Netanyahu saying he's going to do whatever it takes. So is escalation inevitable?

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: We believe that there are better ways to try to get those Israeli citizens back in their homes up in the north, and to keep those that are there, there safely, than a war, than an escalation, than opening up a second front there at that border with Lebanon against Hezbollah.

We still believe that there can be time and space for a diplomatic solution here, and that's what we're working on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Working on that, but how so? Because we just heard Prime Minister Netanyahu right there seems to be disregarding whatever the United States is calling for.

KIRBY: Well, look, the prime minister can speak for himself and what policy he's trying to pursue, what operations he's trying to conduct. We all, of course, recognize that the tensions are much higher now than they were even just a few days ago. We certainly have been monitoring the reports of strikes back and forth across that border.

But all that does, George, is underscore for us how important it is to try to find a diplomatic solution. Nobody is pollyannish about how hard that's going to be, certainly in light of the events over the last week or so, but that doesn't mean we're going to give up on it. We don't believe that a military conflict, and we're saying this directly to our Israeli counterparts, George. We don't believe that escalating this military conflict is in their best interest.

It's certainly not going to be in the best interest of all of those people that Prime Minister Netanyahu says he wants to be able to send back home.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So what exactly is the United States doing now to advance a diplomatic initiative?

KIRBY: We have been involved in extensive and quite assertive diplomacy. In fact, our -- one of our envoys, Amos Hochstein, who I think you know, was in the region just a few days ago. We will certainly keep up those conversations as best we can. And we're talking to both sides here.

STEPHANOPOULOS: This seems to have then -- this latest escalation seems to have been sparked by the pager detonations by Israel earlier this week. I know that you've said the United States did not get a heads up there. Is the United States concerned about what some have said as a relatively indiscriminate -- I mean indiscriminate effect of these pager detonations?

KIRBY: There's not a lot I can say about those incidents. I'm not going to get into the details of it. As I also made clear, we weren't involved in it. I will just say, though, George, that we are watching all of these escalating tensions that have been occurring over the last week or so with great concern, and we want to make sure that we can continue to do everything we can to try to prevent this from becoming an all-out war there with Hezbollah across that Lebanese border.

We don't want -- in fact, we've been working since the beginning of this conflict, October 8th and on, to try to prevent an escalation, to prevent a broadening of this conflict there in and around Israel, but also in the region.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me take a step back on that question. It was a pretty shocking attack coming from Israel I think today. She certainly achieved surprise. Did they advance a strategic goal?

KIRBY: I think you'd have to talk to the Israelis about what they're doing or what they're not doing. I really can't speak to this -- these sets of incidents one way or another. What I can say is, again, we're watching with concern the escalating tensions in the region and across that border here in the last week or so, and we don't believe, continue to not believe that kinetic action, military action, by either side, is really in either side's best interest.

Certainly not in the interest of what the prime minister says he wants to do, which is get families back to their homes.

There’s a better way forward here, and we’re going to keep trying to proffer that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But let’s take a step back from that, though. What about the broader vulnerability? If supply chains are vulnerable, aren’t we all vulnerable?

KIRBY: I mean, look, again, I -- I can’t speak about these incidents or the details of them or what may have happened or not, George. I hope you can appreciate that.

I can just tell you that what we’re focused on right now, in our foreign policy, is making sure that this conflict doesn’t broaden and doesn’t deepen. And that’s why we will have sufficient and very capable military force in the region. That’s why we continue to try to find a diplomatic solution.

And it’s why we’re working with allies and partners all across the region to try to see if we can prevent this conflict from escalating.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I understand that. I was asking a different question. Are we taking steps to protect our own supply chains given the vulnerability revealed by this?

KIRBY: The president -- again, the -- without speaking to the details of it, I'll just say the president has made it clear that he wants the American supply chain to be as resilient and as vibrant as possible. He wants the supply chain for American goods and technology to start here in the United States. And that’s why he’s been working so hard, in a bipartisan way, to -- to make that happen.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It appears that the Gaza ceasefire talks have gone cold. Is that right?

KIRBY: I would say that we are not achieving any progress here in the last week to two weeks. We have -- not for lack of trying, but it doesn’t appear, like Mr. Sinwar is prepared at all to keep negotiating in good faith, especially after he murdered six hostages in a tunnel.

So, I mean, just an execution style. So, it doesn’t appear as if he’s willing to move this -- move this forward.

But it doesn’t mean that we’re not trying. You heard the president talk about this just a few days ago. Things can be unrealistic until all of a sudden they are realistic. And that’s why our team is still engaged with Qatar, with Egypt, with the -- with the Israelis, to see if we can’t move it forward.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, we all saw the results of this Iranian hack interference in our election this week. What more can you say about what the United States is doing right now to combat the interference that we’re seeing from Iran, from China, from Russia?

KIRBY: Yes, we’ve got a very robust interagency effort all across the government to deter and to defeat foreign maligned actors that are -- are trying to interfere in our election. You talked about Iran. We know Russia is at this as well. Certainly, China has shown some interest in involving themselves in our elections.

And so one of the things we’re doing is we’re -- we’re calling it out. The Director of National Intelligence has not issued a couple of reports identifying the countries that are involved here and what we think they’re doing. You’ve seen some indictments by the Justice Department. You’ve seen additional sanctions laid on by Treasury and by the State Department.

I -- we are very much focused on this and we’re going to continue to not only identify it when we’re seeing it, but take sufficient, tangible action to hold these actors accountable.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Are they trying to elect a specific candidate or simply sow chaos?

KIRBY: I think we know that where -- where the Russians are, in terms of some of their preferences and in most cases, though, what we’re seeing is an effort to sow discord and discontent and to try to shake the American people’s confidence in our democratic institutions, in our electoral systems, and that’s what we’re doing really -- that’s what we’re working really hard to combat. The American people ought to know that the federal government is working hand in glove with their local and state officials to ensure the safety and security of their ballots and their Election Day activities.

STEPHANOPOULOS: John Kirby, thanks, as always, for your time.

KIRBY: Yeah, you bet.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Up next, we’ll look at the tense threat environment with just six weeks to go until Election Day with the bipartisan heads of the task force looking into the assassination attempts against Donald Trump.

We’ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD ROWE JR., ACTING DIRECTOR, UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE: There was complacency on the part of others that led to a breach of security protocols.

PIERRE THOMAS, ABC NEWS CHIEF JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, there was a lack of clarity that that group should be secure, period, full stop.

ROWE JR.: There was discussion about how the roof was going to be secured and I think what it came back to is, we should have challenged what that -- how that mechanism was being implemented, meaning we should have been more direct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: There is the Acting Secret Service Director with Pierre Thomas, responding on a new report showing the agency's failure to secure the Butler rally perimeter before the assassination attempt against former President Trump in July. This week, another assassination attempt on Trump was followed by a series of threats on election officials and the justices of the Supreme Court. Pierre here is tracking it all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THOMAS (voice-over): It's been a starkly unsettling week. A man allegedly lying in wait to try to kill former President Trump as he golfed on Sunday.

ROWE JR.: The agent who was visually sweeping the area of the 6th Green saw the subject armed with what he perceived to be a rifle and immediately discharged his firearm.

THOMAS (voice-over): On Monday, authorities began to see evidence of threatening mail filled with white powder sent to election officers in at least 20 states. The powder proved harmless, but the sender threatened lethal attacks in the future, and at least two state officers were evacuated.

LISA MONACO, UNITED STATES DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: The threats against election officials who are oftentimes simply volunteers, these are people who are being threatened simply for doing their job.

THOMAS (voice-over): On Thursday, a man charged with threatening to kill six Supreme Court justices. Panos Anastasiou is accused of posting online messages that contained violent, racist and homophobic rhetoric coupled with threats of assassination via torture, hanging and firearms. And Friday, a Texas man identified by federal prosecutors as a member of an anti-Semitic hate group charged with threatening to lynch and kill Nashville's district attorney.

Throughout the year, law enforcement officials suggesting the nation is in perhaps the most dangerous threat environment since 9/11. The attorney general pointing to a stunning rise in threats of political violence just weeks before the July attempt on Trump's life.

MERRICK GARLAND, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Threats to the judiciary, threats to prosecutors, threats to law enforcement agents have all spiked significantly. We intend to aggressively investigate and prosecute threats against our public officials, including members of Congress.

THOMAS (voice-over): And even months before that, the FBI director warning that virtually every category of threat is heightened, from threats of political violence to domestic terror to the resurgence of ISIS and Al-Qaeda in the wake of the Israeli-Hamas conflict.

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: I would be hard-pressed to think of a time where so many threats to our public safety and national security were so elevated all at once.

THOMAS (voice-over): And the new acting secret service director, in response to the Butler assassination attempt against Trump and the Florida golfing incident, also warning of dangerous times as we head down the stretch to the election.

ROWE JR.: We've been in this heightened and increasingly dynamic threat environment since July 13th.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

THOMAS (on camera): Like we said at the start, an unsettling week with just 44 days until the election, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Certainly is. OK, Pierre, thanks.

Let’s bring in the leaders of the task force on the attempted Trump assassination, GOP Congressman Mike Kelly, the chairman, he’s from Pennsylvania, also Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado.

Mr. Chairman, let me begin with you.

We saw those reports of the failures at Butler. Is that a sign of a deeper problem inside the Secret Service?

REP. MIKE KELLY, CHAIR, TASK FORCE ON THE ATTEMPTED TRUMP ASSASSINATION & (R) PENNSYLVANIA: You know, the more we look at it, the more you think, well, what – what caused that? This is the elite -- this is the best group we can put forward. And if we're having a failure at that – at that stage, there is something more that we have to take a look at. So, there’s a lot of different things, George, that we're looking at.

Our staff, not just the 13 members of the task force, but we have a staff that’s working very hard every day to get to the bottom of what happened on July 13th. But more importantly, I think, George, is what happened on July 12th, July 11th, July 10th, July – what was the preparation for that event and were we ready for that day or had we been too casual about it because it just seems to be commonplace that Trump is going to be somewhere, he’s going to be speaking and it’s – there’s going to be thousands of people, let's go at it.

I do know this, and I – and I – and I think that Jason will agree, the preparation for that event leaves a lot in our minds as to how in the world the most elite group, and the people we rely on to protect people, was so casual about that. And that's the way it seems right now. And hopefully, hopefully, it – it doesn't get worse. But I've got to tell you, I – it, to me, it is very troubling where we are today and what we're trying to get to and to think – the people we trust are the people that let us down the most.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman Crow, were they casual or were they stretched too thin, or both?

REP. JASON CROW, RANKING MEMBER, TASK FORCE ON THE ATTEMPTED TRUMP ASSASSINATION & (D) COLORADO: I think it's both, George. I mean, I couldn't agree more with Mike Kelly here. I mean there – there were no doubt a series of cascading failures that day, which is reflective of a cultural problem, a command and control problem. But they are no doubt stretched thin. I mean we are in a threat environment where threats are at historic highs. We’re asking the Secret Service to protect a sitting president and then two presidential candidates and then former presidents and all their families in an environment where threats are three times, four times higher.

Acting Director Rowe was very clear to our task force a week ago when he briefed us that his service, his agents are red-lined was the phrase he used. They – they‘ve been working 80, 90-hour weeks. They’re out in the field three weeks out of a month. You can't expect folks to do that in perpetuity without them reaching a breaking point.

So, there’s no doubt they need additional resources. But additional funding and resources is not going to solve the problem between now and Election Day. So, we need to have a discussion about what needs to happen in the next 45 days, actually sooner than that, to make sure this does not happen again.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, what does need to happen?

CROW: Well, my view is they need to rely on other agencies –

KELLY: All I can say is –

STEPHANOPOULOS: Go ahead, Congressman Crow, and then Congressman Kelly you respond.

KELLY: Yes. Well – well – so, who –

STEPHANOPOULOS: Go ahead, Jason Crow.

CROW: Yes, we can't mass produce Secret Service agents. We can’t create these. It takes years to create a Secret Service agent. So, we have to rely on Department of Defense agents, other federal agencies to cover down and provide some relief to these folks.

Because one of the issues that we saw in Butler, Pennsylvania, was the overreliance on local law enforcement. Now, these are fantastic folks. They do really well. But they are not trained and equipped to provide presidential level security.

So, looking at what resources the Department of Defense and other agencies that have a higher level of preparedness and resourcing can do to help Secret Service is really important.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman Kelly?

KELLY: Yes, and – and I – you know, I agree completely. But there's another way of doing this. There’s a – you can call – you can redeploy funds to where it is that you need them the most.

I will say this, our Secret Service now is trying to guard more people than they’ve ever had to guard in the past. And – and there’s such a heightened atmosphere right now. I'm listening to everything that’s taking place around the United States. We have people acting and acting out in a bad way and something spurring them on to do that. A lot of it is the rhetoric. We've got to be careful about what we say and when we say it and how it's received by somebody else.

I – look, we can redeploy money. And we need to do that. Secret Service works under Homeland Security. But getting more people on the ground, people who were trained, people who were competent, and people who have a nose for all this.

I agree with Jason, these guys are exhausted. They have been played out to the very end. Why don't we look at where we're spending money, redeploy it, try to get more people on board? And this is not an easy task. I want them – people in the United States to understand, look, this is not a Republican or Democrat issue. This is an American issue. We have to protect those who we have up for election and those that are already serving. It's a very dangerous time for us to be looking at this and thinking, this is just the way the world is.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Right.

KELLY: It's not. And we cannot accept this as Americans.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman Kelly, you mentioned the rhetoric. We saw those threats against 20 election officials this week that came on the heels of former President Trump saying – talking about prosecuting corrupt election officials, going after them. Does that rhetoric have to be toned down?

KELLY: Do you know what? I think when we talk about rhetoric, it's all -- every place I go, there's people talking. I can go in a coffee shop and people start yelling at me about what needs to be done.

There's something has happened to us our culture has been greatly affected by this. Rhetoric is rhetoric. Both sides say things at times.

You look back and say -- well, I didn't mean it that way, and I said, that's the way it was perceived and that's the way it was taken, you've got to be careful of what you say and how you say it.

At times though, sometimes, your emotions rise above your ability to sit back and say let's keep it down, tamp it down please, tamp it down, that's not necessary.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman Crow?

CROW: Yeah, you know what? Mike Kelly and I are doing and what this task force is doing is really important. I mean, we first have to make sure that our candidates and the president are protected, and we have to get to the bottom of what happened for these two incidents. But we're also doing something else.

You know, Mike is a very conservative Republican. I’m a very proud Democrat, and what we are trying to show folks is we can go through an election cycle, we can have fierce and tough debates, and we can show people that we will settle our political differences and debate. But we're going to come together on an issue that Americans expect us to come together -- together on and we are going to get answers to people's questions and we're going to make sure that our candidates are being protected.

That is what Mike and I and the task force members are showing, and there's a big difference between having tough debates during the political season which is what we should do and condemning political violence and saying there is no place in our American society whether you're Republican and Democrat for anybody ever to take actions into their own hands and to resort to violence.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Thank you both for your time this morning.The roundtable is up next. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe him, that those were not his posts?

SEN. J.D. VANCE, (R-OH) VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't not believe him. I don't believe him. I just think that you have to let these things sometimes play them out in the court of public opinion. He is going to make whatever arguments he wants to make. I'm sure the news media and others are going to investigate these comments further. I just think that fundamentally, it's Mark Robinson and the people of North Carolina that get to decide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: J.D. Vance doing his best not to talk about Mark Robinson right there. Let's bring in our Roundtable joined by Chief Washington Correspondent Jonathan Karl, Associated Press Executive Editor Julie Pace, and The Washington Post Congressional Reporter Marianna Sotomayor.

Jon Karl, I don't believe him. I don't not believe him.

(LAUGH)

JONATHAN KARL, ABC CO-ANCHOR OF "THIS WEEK" AND CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. That was J.D. Vance cutting him loose because he also said that it is up to him, up to the voters of North Carolina. It is up to him; I mean, he has made his decision. If he was going to get out of this race, if Robinson was going to drop out of the race, it really had to happen by Friday, so that they --

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's when the ballots go out.

KARL: Yeah. So, look, that was as close as you got to denouncing Robinson from J.D. Vance.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It's amazing that he has decided to hang in there.

JULIE PACE, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, ASSOCIATED PRESS: It's pretty incredible considering the circumstances that he finds himself in right now. And you know, for Trump, there will be this question of whether he does that sort of very Trumpian distancing where he can claim he doesn't know him that well, where he can claim that they aren't allied here, though, of course, there's plenty on tape of Trump really praising Robinson.

But think, fundamentally, what this does is it puts North Carolina, which is a state that has shifted -- after being a swing state, has shifted more red -- it puts it really I think back in play. It is going to be incredibly difficult for Democrats to take that back, but I think it's another place now where Republicans are going to have to spend money for the president, when they'd rather be putting their attention --

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: But Jon, talk about that the difference that it makes. North Carolina is one state where you could create a path to victory for the Democrats without Pennsylvania.

KARL: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's why you saw Rick Klein at the top of the show outline it's a way that Kamala Harris can lose Pennsylvania and still win the presidency. So it's important, but let's keep in mind, you know, Roy Cooper won four years ago and Trump won. This is a tough state for Democrats but they really believe that they have a better chance of winning North Carolina actually than Georgia. I mean, they think they can take both, but North Carolina, they think they have a slight advantage, even before this happened.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And Marianna, there is some concern inside North Carolina that for Republicans, that Mark Robinson staying on could hurt other Republican candidates in this state.

MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Absolutely. And listen, the House actually has an advantage here to stay in Republican hands because of redistricting, some gerrymandering that went on over the last year. They are able to actually win three seats, but listen, I was kind of surprised that even the National Republican Committee chairman who is from North Carolina, Richard Hudson, he himself was pretty clear about saying, on Friday, that Robinson should step aside. He should step aside.

And that's something that you rarely hear from Republicans nowadays and it does kind of encapsulate that worry that Republican leaders now have about being able to make sure that even the House majority stays in Republican hands because of this aftermath.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Jon, we're looking at every single electoral vote out there. Right now Donald Trump is looking at every single electoral vote out there right now, moving to try to overturn Nebraska's -- the division of electoral votes.

KARL: I mean, this is fascinating. So Nebraska like Maine actually splits electoral votes. There is a single electoral vote you can win by winning Omaha and their surrounding areas.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And Democrats often win that.

KARL: Yes. I mean, they used to call it Obama-ha when Obama won this. So now there is this move by Republicans to make it so they no longer do this. This would close off one possible way for Kamala Harris to win 270 electoral votes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: If she wins the three battleground states in the Midwest, doesn't win anything else but takes that --

KARL: And if she can't win Omaha, if she can't win that single electoral vote, it's 269-269, it goes to the House, likely controlled by delegation -- by Republicans. But this is fascinating because it's really the Republicans want to call a special session. It's really --

STEPHANOPOULOS: It already failed once.

KARL: It already failed once but they're trying to convince a few hold-outs but it's really down to one guy who switched parties. He's a lame duck state senator that used to be a Democrat, became a Republican, not a big Trump guy, and they were really making the effort that -- the argument was not this is a way to hurt Harris or help Trump, it has nothing to do with that was the argument.

It's just a way to make, you know, the state of Nebraska stronger by having a unified voice with our electoral votes. So what does Trump do? They sent Lindsey Graham out there to make the case, send a guy from South Carolina to go out there to pressure these state reps and Trump himself makes a phone call. It seems to me that that effort is actually going to backfire. I mean unless he's offering something else.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You think it succeeds?

PACE: Look, I think it's hard to separate it from the broader picture of what's happening right now. I think that's what makes this particularly complicated for this man in Nebraska and I do think Jon is right that I think any time there's this kind of outside pressure, this feeling like it's other people from outside states that are coming this to tell us what to do, it tends to make officials backtrack a little bit. But this is how close this race is, that that one electoral vote in Nebraska --

KARL: This one --

PACE: -- could really change the course of the presidency.

KARL: And one lame duck state senator in the state of Nebraska could determine who is the president.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Marianna, you cover Congress every day, Donald Trump inserting himself in the government shutdown negotiations as well.

SOTOMAYOR: Yes. I think the government is not going to shut down this time around because we have heard so much from congressional Republican leaders saying it's just not an option. So at least at this point, there's going to be just a clean extension until December.

I think Trump getting involved and saying, you know, we must pass this more immigration-related bill to fund the government, that's going to affect Johnson more. It's going to affect Johnson later on when he tries to run for either speaker or minority leader depending on how the House goes. I think that is --

STEPHANOPOULOS: But he has no option right now but to kick the can down the road for a few months.

SOTOMAYOR: Correct, because Republicans don't want to lose the majority. They don't want to remind voters that they have not been able to govern. They have constantly found themselves at different points where their own party, members within their own party within the House, do not help them to achieve these basic things that the government should be doing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about the debate over debates.

Julie Pace, we've seen -- we saw Kamala Harris come out yesterday and we've seen Donald Trump say, it's too late to debate, but he's going to be watching the polls.

PACE: Absolutely. I mean, that's what this really comes down to. And to be clear, that debate that's now being proposed is one day later than the debate that he was in the last time around so there's plenty of precedent for having debates at that stage even though voters will already be voting in many states early.

Harris is really trying to, I think, push Trump to get into this. I think she would be willing under the right circumstances to do a debate and really this comes down to Trump who by all accounts came out of that debate in a weaker position in terms of the public perception there but it's going to come down to the network, it's going to come down to the moderators, it's going to come down to the polls.

KARL: I mean, look, I think there's a rational decision by Trump not to do another debate. He's known by everybody. Kamala Harris is still trying to convince voters. She obviously won the last debate. But I also don't believe that he's not going to do it. I mean, first of all, he didn't say no. He said it's too late. He didn't say no. But even if he does say no, I'm old enough to -- old enough to remember.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Remember.

KARL: When he said he wasn't going to do our debate, and then of course he did our debate. So I think, look --

STEPHANOPOULOS: But that gets to the question of, and I know he said he believes he won the ABC debate. He talked about the audience cheering even though there was no audience in the debate room.

KARL: Yes. Yes. He did get a round of applause from his staff when he stepped off the stage.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But do you think he really believes and look at everything going on and say that he really did do well on that debate and that he helped himself?

KARL: No, he clearly doesn't think he won the debate. And that's why he -- you know, he attacked moderators on and on and on. But he loves the audience and I think that he thinks that he can beat her, so that is just 70 million -- the possibility of 70 million viewers to walk away from that in the last week of the campaign. I think he comes back.

(CROSSTALK)

PACE: And to that point that was made earlier, I mean at that point in the race, there are so few things that can change the trajectory. So, I think if we get into late October and we are still in this very toss-up position, he feels like this is something that can move the needle, yeah, I think you could definitely see him.

KARL: But there's also -- there's also debate -- there's also arguing here back and forth over who does the debate. So, this is a CNN invitation. He wants the debate to go on Fox. What was the --

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you compromise at NBC?

(LAUGH)

KARL: Yeah, exactly. There you go. Yeah.

PACE: Come back to ABC.

(LAUGH)

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're on Capitol Hill every day. What are you hearing (inaudible) from your sources in the Republican and Democratic side about where things stand for control of the House and the Senate?

SOTOMAYOR: I mean, after Biden stepped aside, there was just such a rejuvenation among House Democrats that they really could win this. But at the end of the day, Republicans are very worried about the fact that Democrats just completely keep outracing them. It is something we're seeing at the presidential level as well. That is worrying them because it could completely write off of districts if Democrats are able to outspend a number of Republican candidates.

But it is going to be really close, we hear all the time from Republicans and Democrats, but Democrats are still not yet preparing their agendas for next year while Republicans are. Republicans are feeling a little bit overconfident while Democrats are still trying to see a number of the districts in play before they really start talking I think more seriously with the Kamala Harris campaign about what a House Democratic majority and a Harris Presidency --

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: One possible flip is you see Republicans take control of the Senate, maybe Democrats take control of the House.

KARL: Yeah, absolutely. And if you follow the money, so Democrats have a huge money advantage right now, certainly in fundraising. They are spending more and more cash on hand in the presidential and in the Senate races. In the House races, it's much more even. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. They've got a huge advantage with the House, but in Senate races where Republicans have a really good chance of taking back the Senate, that's where the one place where Republicans don't have a disadvantage in terms --

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's become their firewall.

KARL: Yeah.

PACE: Absolutely. And if you look at some of these Democratic incumbents in places like Montana and in places like Ohio, I mean, you can see that path for Republicans pretty clearly to the Senate, which if you're the Harris campaign thinking about beating the White House with a Republican Senate, that's obviously very limiting in terms of your agenda.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's all we have time today. Thank you all very much. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight" and I'll see you tomorrow on "GMA."