Grandfather Bloodied, Cuffed, Charged in Black Friday Confusion

How can he be arrested for shoplifting when he had not even left the area, much less the store with the item? Does this mean that in Buckeye, you can be arrested for shoplifting everything in your shopping cart since you haven’t paid for it yet? These cops overreacted.

Looks like the cops over reacted. I’d like to know if this grandpa with his grandchild, wife in tow has any prior records for shoplifting.

Walmart deserves all of the bad press it gets.

Sam Walton should be turning over in his grave.

It’s not stealling unless you leave the store. Very bad Police training. There is no excuse for this brutallity. They wouldn’t have given him the oportunity to explain.

I get the feeling we’ll be seeing more video of this and I bet it shows he was just helping his grandson like the story says. His mistake was placing the item in his waste band to pick up his grandchild. In Az concealment is considered shoplifting. Too bad no one has any common since these days.

“Slamming” a person to the ground for shoplifting?? I would expect that from the “knuckle dragging” private security staff at a Walmart – but WTH are police doing “patrolling” a private business for shoplifters?

Why not just shoot the guy? It’s more in line with the store attitude.

SEEMS LIKE THE GUY DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE EVEN IF HE WOULD HAVE EXPLAINED,THEY JUMPED TO CONCLUSIONS,AS ALWAYS,GOTTA MAKE THERE QUOTA(COPS).HERE IN PA.YOU CAN ONLY PERSUE THEM IF THE IN THE PARKING LOT.

tjackcity, you are living in the wrong country. Try China.

Welcome to walmart.. All we want is your money… Customer service hmmmm don’t have any of that around here.. We do have over the top cops looking to kick some old man booty though..

Sad, but not surprising. Walmart has proven time and again that their massive profits are far more important than any person on earth. The fact that Walmart literally bought the police to do their dirty work is just icing on the cake.

In the article it said they had put on side of the cuffs on, the guy ran, they took his feet out from under him and he fell. It looks to me, though, if you watch the first few seconds of the video, as if they are just putting the cuffs on. I wish there was more video or if some of the witnesses had be interviewed for the article or something. Still, he hadn’t left the store yet. The police and employees were probably warned that there would be shop lifting so the might have been hypersensitive and over reacted. I wonder how this will play out.

I wish this would of happened to me. I have a lot of bills to pay. Shoplifting does not occur until you have vacated the premise with the unpaid merchandise. Simple as that. If every person would stand up to illegal enforcement, you would see this type of behavior from law enforcement disappear.

one word…lawsuit!

if he did not have a cart and needed to pick up his grandson where else do you think he would put it., and was he heading for the door or the cashier in front of the door. plus in Mich it does not matter until you get one foot out the door, it is not shoplifting., and these were private dicks not police so they had no right to handcuff them or throw him to the ground. i do not care what state you are in he did not leave the property without paying for it.

Got to “love” all the replies to this article. Claiming they wish it had happened to them so they co0uld sue. Grow up! We do not know even half the story. A few seconds of a video clip is not enough to judge what happened. I work in retail and for many businesses cops are necessary to keep all the people inline. Especially people like tjackcity and some of the other ignorant individuals on here.

The dude hadn’t even left the store.. That’s not shoplifting!! He’s got a dam good case against that police department! I hope he nails them to the wall!

I think we need more details between the time he tucked it in his wasteband and his being “thrown” to the ground. Just seems somethings missing.

What about those personal shopping bags that many people bring with them to shop. Since they would be placing store items into a non-store shopping bag would that not constitute shop-lifting?

Just one more reason NEVER to shop at Wal-Mart. They treat you like a criminal when you enter the store and when you leave (What’s in that bag, slave? Let’s see your receipt, slave.).

Wait until the greeters are replaced with TSA.
The well-conditioned slaves will still continue to shop there.

Why would you take a young child with you to the store? Makes no sense. I don’t know if he was shoplifting or not, but it’s obvious he’s not the sharpest tool in the shed.

minorkey1- you are wrong. Please see the case of the State of Arizona v. Arnulfo Flores. Please keep in mind that you yourself said

…”but what I do know is that there appears to be probable cause for a shoplifting arrest and the suspect attempted to flee. I’m sorry the man was hurt when he fell after having his legs swept out from under him, but it doesn’t appear the police used deliberate excessive force.”

As long as there is probable cause and the police don’t use deliberate excessive force one can not resist an unlawful arrest. One can sue later if the arrest was found to be unlawful, but one can not resist.

I am never setting foot into a Walmart again. For two reasons. The clientele seems like absolute dregs of the earth. And the mgmt seems intent on killing their customers for taking care of their kids. Goodbye Sam…

if this guy turns out to sue the PD, I will absolutely bankroll him. The police need to get stung back here. They can’t act completely out of control because they carry a badge.

“It’s not shoplifting unless he left the building without paying.”

100% false. The law in many states regard the act of concealment as shoplifting. Arizona is one of those states (I just googled it, so feel free to do so yourself). The instant he tucked it in his waistband, he committed a crime. The fact that he didn’t leave the building is totally irrelevant.

This isn’t police brutality, either. If someone resists arrest, they can and will use force to subdue them. If you don’t want to get messed up, cooperate with them by not running and keeping your mouth shut. It’s literally that simple, so don’t complicate matters by being stupid.

Good to see so many ignorant posters on ABC. Don’t even read the whole article before posting their stupidity. Right there in the article it says he was being handcuffed by the police after an employee saw him stuff it in his waistband, he ran after the police tried to cuff him. But ABC knows most people only read the first paragraph so they put everything to make Walmart and the police look bad in the first paragraph then come back and contradict the first half with the real account of what happened.

“if this guy turns out to sue the PD, I will absolutely bankroll him.”

That would be a waste of money. Two words: probable cause. By resisting arrest for a misdemeanor like shoplifting (which they probably wouldn’t have held him for), they have every reason to believe that he is guilty of a more serious crime, and by virtue of that: a threat to public safety. They not only had the right to take him down like that, the police were obligated to. They didn’t shoot him, so there would be no lawyer on the face of the planet who could argue that they used excessive force after he ran.

You people need to wake up and realize that the police are authority figures and running away is nowhere close to being an acceptable means of dealing with what you interpret as a false arrest. Even if you didn’t do what you were accused of, by running you’re guilty of a crime.

“Your country has become a fascist police state with immoral laws.”

Oh yes, such immoral laws. You know, like laws that prevent people from stealing. Such a shame that I don’t live in a country that refuses to protect it’s citizen’s property and allows people and businesses alike to be robbed blind like you apparently do.

“A Christian nation you are no more.”

A Christian nation we never were.

Cops always make up excuses for their brutality. They’ll say that “oh, you didn’t see what happened before he got all bloody, he did it to himself!!!! We didn’t touch him!!!! He just kept beating himself up!!!!! Yeah uuuh OK

The question isnt what happened before this…. The question is “Did the cops really feel the need to brutally bash someones face into the floor?”…. What is this world coming to…… The cops are just like, “What we are doing our job”…. Didn’t think to serve and protect meant to seriously injure a person with their grandson in their arms???

AZ law enforcement is a joke. They’re nothing but overpaid, undertrained trolls who use excess force because they’re too dumb to follow civil rules. Combined with Wallymart’s secret service, things can get out of hand quickly. If the gentleman is found innocent, I hope he sues both Wallymart and the Buckeye PD.

There is a second clearer video on youtube now showing the game wasn’t even “concealed”.

I noticed the Pro “Cult of Public Safety” people ignore the fact that these were off-duty cops and not really legally allowed to place a hand on anyone.

Also, I not the pro swatguy posters always try the same weak excuses and justifications you see law enforcement people make when they know they are under attack>

They always invariable try the “Us & them” tactic first rather than confront or debate the facts the say “Well YOU must be a felon!” Or “Got a ticket!” despite the fact that with 4.75 degrees of separation today most people know the real deal with todays police. It’s hit or miss.

Next I see another weak LEO debater saying” Oh yes so then lets just have NO LAWS at all”. See? They rarely can debate without reaching for extremes and semantics. Mo-one on theis post said anything at all about letting “all shoplifters go free”. This is the pathetic debate mentality of some of these people! They can’t accept that someone is questioning THEM so they start in with infantile noise and imaginary fantasies. Not all cops are bad but let’s face it they live like rockstar attention fiend wannabees (have you ever seen the “gearladen” recruiting ads they have that show jackboot costumed police standing with assault rifles alongside “police lamborghinis”! And people wonder who they are hiring here? Who is the target audience for recruiting like THAT?!) heroes despite USDoL stats that say they aren’t even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs and expect idolization and respect in return for pension padding and Cult of Public Safety rhetoric. Sad. I can’t wait until they release the name of these coward jokers.

These people called Mafia boss`s is also who are running our country THE USA , Remember the Prohibitioners = Moonshinner RUTHLESS KILLERS in OGANIZED CRIME ! CRIMINALS ! Got more wealthy then our own Government ? They poisoned us with the fire water ,& DRUGS . Now the drugs are worse then ever and they distroyed our fathers , mothers & Children (OUR NEXT GENERATION) & unborn children still in there mothers whom and our futures LEADERS ! for this country . Not much has changed since the COWBOY & INDIAN DAYS ! Just the weapons used to take over a town now OUR Nation ? To bring down AMERICA ! These Mafia boss`s are now running our country called AMERICA ! Whats it gonna take for AMERICANS to become MEN ? Or WOMAN ? and say enouph is enouph of hurting innocent people . In the name of GREED ! Why must people control everything ? YOU’VE SOLD YOUR KIDS TO SATAN and HIS MEN ! Into a life of hell and slavery ! Are you tired of playing the cat & mouse game YET FOLKS ? Then get off your DUFFS and Be A MAN or Woman and really lead THIS NATION called The Land Of The Free AMERICA !

you are “shoplifting” if you try to leave the store without paying ..
BOTTOM LINE !
and IF one is shoplifting they should be charged accordingly with DUE PROCEDURE ..’
NOT knocked unconcious ..
with the grandson present ??? charming ..
vid’ is viral so EVERYONE can make up their own minds ..facism has arrived …..

One little problem with the “do not resist” thing. I don’t know about others, but I grew up in a large family and if someone who has not identified him/herself grabs me by the arm, the move to free my arm is more or less a reflex.

“As long as there is probable cause and the police don’t use deliberate excessive force one can not resist an unlawful arrest.” ~~~~~~~~~ Yo, TJackCity, first, if there is probable cause and the police don’t use excessive force, then it would be a LAWFUL arrest most likely, not an unlawful one, so any discussion of unlawful arrests wouldn’t apply at that point. Second, the case you cite specifically states and credits a citizen’s right to resist an unlawful arrest and notes in what circumstances a citizen may exercise the right (when police act in bad faith, when there isn’t probable cause, or when the police use excessive force). So, even your own case evidence upholds what I said before…that a citizen DOES have the right to resist an unlawful arrest, contrary to your claim that “even if the arrest is not lawful one can not resist.” Nice try, but you’re still wrong.

Lastly, for all those claiming that the man had to leave the store before he could be arrested for shoplifting. That’s not true. If all the elements necessary for the crime are established, a person can be arrested even if they haven’t gone out the door. However, many large chains will wait, as a matter of STORE POLICY not law, to make an arrest after the person exits the door, because it is easier to prove intent at that point.

It is not considered shoplifting officially until you are forty miles away from the store in your car, sucking on a spliff, and everyone knows that. Especially if the video game in question itself was about resisting fascism and big brother. Plus once you get old enough the rules are different – its called “grandfathering it in”. Posse Coma status takes effect AFTER unconsciousness, and not before. Come on people, everybody should be aware of these things. Shouldn’t they ? What’s become of this country ?

I WILL NEVER, EVER SHOP AT WALMART!

HOW CAN ANY AMERICANS SHOP AT A STORE THAT INSISTS ITS SUPPLIERS SEND JOBS TO CHINA<, AND BEATS ON ITS CUSTOMERS? TO SAVE A FEW CENTS?? WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICANS?

My wife puts stuff in the bottom of our stroller that is well concealed when she goes shopping. I need to tell her that police may apply a smack-down to herwhich may or may not break her face. Sounds like the cops have lost their minds. Couldn’t they go and shut down some lemonade stand somewhere?

yes, we have the right to resist an illegal arrest. does this mean we SHOULD? Personally, I cannot risk the injury. I have nerve problems in my neck and I would likely be paralyzed by the cops.

it’s kinda like the pedestrian’s right of way. yes, cars are supposed to stop for me at the crosswalk. but i’m not going to assert my rights when cars aren’t stopping. I’m not suicidal.

i do know, however, that even without resisting, cops are likely to beat on suspects. this grandfather probably did nothing to resist except mouth off a bit. so the thug cop taught him a lesson.

Maybe this is for the best. At least he’ll think twice now about taking a kid into public with the police around. That’s far too dangerous for kids, far too dangerous for anyone, for that matter. One misunderstanding and they could have both been shot by the police. What was he thinking!?

I saw the news interview with the cops, who were insisting he became combative. I can only imagine how my father or uncles or grandfather would have reacted if the cops had tried to arrest any of them when they had just moments earlier been trying to protect one of their children or grandchildren from a rampaging crowd – when their adrenaline and defensive instincts would no doubt be running wild. None of those men in my family have ever been arrested or broken the law, but I would bet money that they would have freaked out too. What it comes down to was that this entire encounter could have been avoided – the way it was handled was basically guaranteed to end in bloodshed.

For anybody who doesn’t know, here is how “Explaining to the police goes” In Zionist banker run America.

Suspect ” Officer will you please listen to me for a second?”
Jack Boot ” GET ON THE GROUND”
Suspect “Officer, I’m trying to tell you, please listen.”
Jack Boot ” I SAID GET ON THE BLANKING GROUND. STOP RESISTING ARREST!”
Suspect *Thrown to ground* “OWW, Officer please I’m not resisting, please listen to me.”
Jack Boot “I’m going to tell you one more time, SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND STOP RESISTING OR I AM GOING TO TAZE YOU!”
Suspect ” ok ok, I’m not resisting.”
Jack Boot ” Taze him”
Suspect” *In pain* AHHHHHHHHHHHHH, WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?”
Jack Boot “Are you ready to comply? He’s not ready yet, Taze him.
Suspect ” AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH”
Jack Boot “This makes me feel like a God HAHAHA”

Wal-Mart created the danger which led the security guards (off-duty police) to overreact (in my opinion). The police had to go through the whole process of booking to cover themselves which is wrong (in my opinion). I am very dissapointed at Wal-Mart’s statement to the press expressing no concern for the Grandfather, Grandson or family only the police. I will watch the court case with GREAT interest and hope the settlement is in the millions.

I think this man was trying to protect his little grandson and didn’t give a crap about much else except for the fact that he wanted to BUY that video game. Cops in malls really SUCK anyway and they’re wrong more than right!!! I hope this guy sues.

Fascist: Get over yourself, is this really what you are going to spend your time doing. Geez, get a life. Walmart is the problem here with the way they cattle people in and make it so dangerous. I wonder why this guy started to run though if he had a grandson with him, would you do that? Read the whole story before you get your boyscout buddies to go kill someone for nothing. Talk about overreacting!

We will fall behind China in 25 years and the cops will have played a HUGE part in making it happen. They must hate this unresolvable paradox: They want to take away personal liberty and brutalize citizens to feel patriotic and supposedly uphold the law, but those very actions area eroding the spirit of freedom that is crucial to our nearly laissez faire capitalism, the capitalism that helps us out-innovate and out-trailblaze the rest. But the cops just cant help themselves and just cant stop doing it, and so will continue to erode freedoms and force us down while letting China surpasses us. Kinda sucks wanting to bully and brutalize but still wave a flag, while knowing that very bullying and brutalizing is actually weakening the country whose flag youre waving, and at a time when we are most economically challenged and least need to have our freedoms eroded. So, enemies of America should say: “Keep eroding those freedoms, police! Keep it up! Yes! Another episode of police brutality and another 100,000 people’s psyches subtlely affected by it, subtlely feeling less able to think and act freely, a bit too menaced to openly express themselves.”

People need to learn the difference between right, wrong, and legal. The question of legality, both on the grandfather’s part AND the officer’s gets determined in Criminal Court. The questions for liability concerning right and wrong get answered, and payed for in Civil Court. The Walmart employee made an assumption about the possible shoplifing incident, told the cop, and he continued that assumption by taking action on it. The only person claiming the man resisted arrest is the police department. Muliple witnesses have stated that no resistence of any kind took place, and that the leg sweep was entirely uncalled for. The Grandfather’s story makes to much sense; that coupled with the fact that he has NO criminal record to speak of, and the family had a shopping cart with more than $200.00 worth of merchandise to be purchased, means the employee, and cop were wrong about their assumption. The criminal charges will probably be dropped, but they will first offer to drop them ONLY if the man promises not to sue. If I were the man I’d face the charges in criminal court, because like I said, his story makes to much sense. The store and the police department already know he has a hefty lawsuit against them because even if the cops actions are considered legal, they were still taken based on a wrongful assumption, therefore they will be paying, and paying for this mans injuries and pain, as well as the emotional distress inflicted on the grandchild.