Obama Outlines Deficit-Reduction Plan: ‘This Is Not Class Warfare’

deficit reduction?? you’re kidding!!!! and what he says doesn’t match what’s in the bill he sent to congress. What fools/ you are ABC. He has spelled out nothing.

“Everybody, including the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations, have to pay their fair share,” – Barack Hussein Obama

First off, the rich already pay their “Fair Share” except for companies such as GE.
Second, if the President really believes the words he spewed then the Americans who pay no Federal Income Tax need to start paying something.

What Prez NoBo needs to do is adopt my 5% minimum paid idea.
It is not a Tax increase.
Everyone pays a minimum of at least 5% federal income tax regardless of bracket or deductions.
Under this plan everyone would have skin in the game and corporations such as GE would never be able to pay $0 again.
This will bring more revenue into the Federal Coffers and make everyone a participant.

After you get this in place and institute something like Connie Mack’s Penny Plan, the country would be on it’s way to cutting the deficit and balancing the budget.
Obama’s measly 2 Trillion doesn’t cut the mustard.
Let’s see, he’s saying trust me, the guy who increased the size of government in bad economic times, in 10 Years we will owe only 12.8 Trillion Dollars.
I doubt that would happen and it’s too Whimpy even if it was true.

President Obama, please put on your thinking cap and get back to us with a better plan.
Thank You in advance, The American People.

The only thinking this president does is how to screw the American people out of more money and control. As if raising taxes on rich is going to solve anything. We need to rework the tax code and begin by throwing out the current one and putting in one that is fair and as NOZ says, one where everyone has skin in the game, no matter how small.

Begin with all public sector retirement ages MUST be the same as Social Security recipients. 20 years and out with full retirement NEEDS TO GO.

“Everyone pays a minimum of at least 5% federal income tax regardless of bracket or deductions.”

Yes, because the family of four that grosses $40 grand a year can surely afford to pay $2000 of that to the government, on top of their SS and Medicare taxes, state and local taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, etc etc etc. Right? After all, that $2 grand amounts to only $167 a month. Peanuts, for a family already barely surviving. All they need to do is skip eating meals a few days a month. No problem……………

reposted from another thread:
From his White House speech today:
“Washington has to live within its means,” Obama said. “We have to cut what we can’t afford to pay for what really matters.”

The audacity! He speaks of cuts while outlining almost 2 trillion dollars in new taxes!!! He has no dignity.

Shawn…you’re joking, right? The much-reviled “wealthy” pay way more than their “fair share” in taxes. It a class warfare play by the uber-liberal Obama. Pure and simple. Take from those who have (confiscate) and give to those who have less (redistribute). This is the U.S. Please study our history and how we became great.

He wants to do away with the capitol gains tax rate, this will destroy America. No one will do anything, he forgets to tell you about all the new taxes on middle class and only harps on those mean old rich people (that make the jobs). Many Democrats are against this proposal also but as usual the news media only blames the Republicans.

searamblerone…the top 5% pay nearly 40% of ALL federal income taxes and you want us to hear you and the president lecture on what’s fair? What a joke. So how much should people be able to make in this country? Make sure you include the president, his Hollywood friends, George Soros and, of course, Warren Buffett. Taking more from those who EARNED it to fund more Obama deficits (that won’t amount to anything but paying for more union votes) is immoral/criminal.

Destroying the middle-class??? Afraid that ship has already sailed……..Where have you been for the past 3 years????

S when are you guys going to grasp saying the top whatever pay whatever percentage means NOTHING? This is about percentages and THEIRS are LOWER than probably yours. Why on earth are you inclined to help promote for people above you to pay less than you? We had a progressive system for years and during Bush they got the cash cow at that level and it ran up out debt without bringing those promised jobs. And here we sit with this HUGE debt problem you guys want to complain about, but then you cry if we ask those wealthy to help pay it down some more. These folks are not your friends.

Cut defense by at least $100 billion, then we can start talking about other options for reducing the deficit (which has to include increasing tax revenues). Unitl funding for defesne is dramatically cut, all other proposals as just tinkering around the edges.

“In total, the president’s plan will claim more than $4 trillion in deficit reduction through entitlement cuts, tax increases and war savings, ‘

Also, when will the press call out the President when he makes such ridiculous claims to be reducing the deficit by war savings? Those war savings are already factored into the totals of the next 10 years of budgets. It’s not like these reductions weren’t already known and as such, don’t offer any more reduction possibilities.

Obama’s only plan is to tax the #### out of the rich, propose cuts to entitlements in the out years so they won’t get considered when that time actually comes and then demagogue the heck out of the Republicans who call him out for it.

Everybody should pay income taxes so that they have an interest in how money is spent and not just the freebies that the government gives away. I am not affected by this tax increase, but taking all of the money rich people make in a year will not make a significant dent in the deficit. Poor people should pay something and spending should be reduced. Obama is just playing class warfare, which is no better than ra cism.

Obama in his speech today said, We must all compromise. Washington must live within its means. The Republicans aren’t compromising.
Washington Times reports: “President Obama on Monday will propose a deficit plan that calls for about three dollars in new tax increases for every dollar in additional spending cuts as he seeks to put his imprint on the ongoing talks over reducing the government’s staggering debt burden.

In a plan his advisors described as his ideological vision, rather than a compromise offer to the GOP, Mr. Obama will also threaten to veto any plan Congress sends him that tackles entitlements but doesn’t include tax increases, which he will argue is central to a “balanced” approach.”

Continues:

“His advisors said his speech Monday is not meant to stake out a bipartisan plan that can pass Congress, but rather is an ideological statement about how he would like to make a dent in the government’s debt, which is already once again flirting with hitting the legal limit.

A so-called 12-member super committee, formed by last month’s debt deal, is working to come up with at least $1.2 trillion in proposed deficit reductions. Mr. Obama’s speech is designed to give the panel some thoughts about directions to go.”

NOT meant as a plan that can pass Congress. So, his speech was a campaign speech. And an attempt to tell the super committee where they better cut. Disgusting.

The top 1% in this country have 42% of all US wealth – yet pay 28.4% of the taxes.

“The top 1% in this country have 42% of all US wealth – yet pay 28.4% of the taxes.”

Attitude, wealth also includes savings, assets and etc. that don’t get taxed every year. Or perhaps you feel they should. Who knows with you “fair share” types.

It’s still too big of a difference JR. Remember, this country got this great due to a “progressive” tax structure. Bush killed that off and their wealth is growing yet these taxes are this low.

If the presedent, congress, and official positions were in it for the love of this contry and not profit we would not have this problem. Make all positions in government office take a pay cut instead of a increase, cut their retirement and medical benefits and like everone else if you dont do 20 years of service you do not get retirement. Our government is to blame for the outragious deficit. I am a contractor in a government facility and the goevernmet workers are a lazy bunch, a total waist of money they are like spoiled nine year old children. Pay me more and let me do less………….

Bush did two stimuli. With republican blessing.

I’m ready for class warfare. I’ve got my guns well oiled and plenty of ammunition……long live the ‘French Revolution”!

@ ABC NEWS___ “Class warfare will simply divide this country more. It will attack job creators, divide people and it doesn’t grow the economy,” Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., said on FOX News Sunday. “Class warfare may make for really good politics, but it makes for rotten economics.” _______________It is unimaginable that the Republicans have not realize the class warfare they themselves have been waging—literally assaulting the middle class of America with their economic policies. Yes, Mr. Ryan, that kind of talk may be good for television and politics, but you are your kinds are hypocrites

Posted by: John | September 19, 2011, 12:07 pm 12:07 pm ……….I must be much more intelligent than you, because I never got myself in debt in the first place.

My numbers were from 2007 CBO. Yours?

Last week, the Census Bureau released new figures showing that nearly one in six Americans lives in poverty — a record 46.2 million people. The poverty rate, pegged at 15.1 percent, is the highest of any major industrialized nation, and many experts believe it could get worse before it abates. So if the Conservatives believe in less government, less social safety nets and on and on and on, are the people of this nation ready to accept a poverty rate greater than any major industrialized nation as we continue to export jobs and high rollers become even higher? We are witness to a disappearing middle class and with more than 1.5 million children going to bed hungry every night I for one an sick and tired – absolutely sick and tired – of political posturing in Washington by both sides eager to advance to 2012 elections while America literally dies on the vine – the tossed vine of grapes crushed for champagne and wine at lobbyist five-star restaurant galas as thousands are poured into the coffers of those seeking election proclaiming God, power and strength. All out of the mouths of self-serving people who cannot see the suffering – real suffering in our nation. It is going to get worse – far worse and the next time these smiling self-serving mental masturbators pretend it is not class warfare or want to use than as an excuse to protect the mega wealthy and political donors, I’ve got news for you: it is class warfare and you are setting the game plan.

Bush did two “stimuli” that did not work either. So what? Why should Obama do another? No matter what he calls it.

So what? So what is you did plenty of them and now you cry they’re evil.

Searambler: If you really think so much of this president why don’t you take the time to research all his rich crony friends. He is a con artist and is in bed with all these crooks on so many schemes I don’t have time to list them all for you. You want to blame Republicans for ruining the middle class but you will stand by Obama and it is all smoke and mirrors with that guy. I just think you would really have to be a fool to believe anything he says. Either that or you just don’t care.

You know it isn’t true: LOL, it tells us that the Bush tax cuts and current tax code is failing the U.S. and doesn’t create jobs, and besides President Clinton raised taxes during a recession, oh gee and guess what? The tech boom occurred despite the increase taxes.

_____”The President seems hell-bent on destroying the United States of America. If he is not careful he’ll get exactly what he wants. He is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs!”

POSTED BY: COMMON _ SENSE | SEPTEMBER 19, 2011, 12:16 PM 12:16 PM_____________How soon will the “goose” ask for another bailout money? Your post is a joke of the day.

Fascinating that so many liberals have such a clear idea about what is fair. Everyone knows if this tax goes in, liberals will just increase spending and then demand more “fair” tax increases. So how about supporting cap and spend or is that just going to reveal bankrupt liberal ideas.

“I personally don’t want a team of 65 year old firemen. Nor cops.” – ATTITUDE

Gee, I don’t think anyone proposed a police and firemen force of just 60 – 65 year olds.
Sounds like you don’t value experience ATTITUDE.
There’s plenty of work that gets done in the police and fire departments that doesn’t require a strapping 30 year old.

The Presidents plan sounds carefully thought out and reasonable. I believe it would be supported by most Americans. The problem is that the Republicans want to discredit the President anyway they can. Even at the cost of ruining the US economy. This seems to be their strategy for the 2012 elections. However, it is blatantly obvious and I think come 2012 it will backfire on them.

No Noz, I’m realistic as to why sometimes older people should not continue at certain jobs so much.

Buffett and his rich buddies are free to send a check to the IRS anytime. Why must Warren be compelled by law to write a check for more than he legally owes?

A secretary making $60K per year pays 29 percent in taxes; A person making millions, i.e., Warren Buffet, pays only 17 percent in taxes. How is that fair? We all need to pair our fair share. No one is saying the rich should pay anymore than anyone else, but to pay less is a travesty.

“No Noz, I’m realistic as to why sometimes older people should not continue at certain jobs so much.” – ATTITUDE

Point taken.
Perhaps Obama is too old for his job?

PARALLEX VIEW: You better get your facts straight about spending, revenues generated declined, spending increased, but record spender is still Bush his last year, that shows up 2009, not 2008. Budgets run a year behind, the president worked during his first year with Bush’s budget. And yes, we were nearly in a depression the worse recession since the depression. And Clinton inherited Bush’s I recession and so? His first deficit was lower than Bush I’s deficit and his yearly deficits declined with a dem majority and republican majority, Regan and both Bush’s yearly deficits soared.

Headshots Los Angeles, I agree with you completely. It’s all about taking down the president, and I certainly hope it does backfire in 2012. The Republicans have shown that they are the party of NO COMPROMISE — You cannot run a country or anything for that matter, without compromise. Everyone has to make sacrifices. People voted these people in because they were angry and nothing else; so what have they done … approach everything with an attitude that they are not going to compromise. Anyone who believes they can have it all one way is delusional. You have to compromise to get things done.

“This is not Class Warfare” – President Obama

I guess the Sun Rises in the West?

OK American people, who are you going to believe?
The President or your lying minds?

A bt of history on that Mitch: During the 1990s, about 24 percent of filers had no income tax liability, but this number took a big jump during the George W. Bush administration as Republicans added a large child credit to the tax code. The percentage of filers with no income tax liability rose to 36.3 percent in 2008, from 25.2 percent in 2000……….. The problem is right now is a lousy time to cut this or it might bring on more foreclosures, etc.

Gee. I thought this was all about the economy and the need for jobs. Why do we keep harping on Bush, Clinton, or Reagan? We are in the here and now and the argument should be about macroeconomic theory and what works and what doesn’t work. The old Keynesian “pass out the money” stimulus idea is very appealing to politicians because it suits populist rhetoric like “hope and change”. One problem is that it doesn’t work. Never. Anywhere. Japan tried it and thus their “lost decade”. In spite of that, they talk of doing it again. Go figure. In this country, the politicians, including Bush, just can’t resist it. It never works, but they always refrain, “Things would have been worse”. Its a loser’s lament. This economy needs stability, predictability. Politicians, especially our blabbermouth President need to just sit down and shut up.

I see corporate worship in these posts. Everyone should pay taxes. If one person pays, then everyone pays; it’s only fair. How ridiculous. When corporations run a counrty it’s called fascism. And corporations run the U.S., just look at all the “little” people speaking for them. My goodness!

So ,what’s wrong with class warfare ? The rich have been doing it to the middle and lower forever.If the rich don’t want to pay taxes ,then let the SEC and FDIC shut down and the rich will eat each other alive.Last rich man standing wins.

Buffett and his rich buddies are free to send a check to the IRS anytime. Why must Warren be compelled by law to write a check for more than he legally owes?

Posted by: s | September 19, 2011, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm

If anyone in the press had any guts, they would ask Obama the same thing. Lead by example. Where is YOUR check?

“As head of a single income household, with no dependents, I don’t get the breaks that others do.” And you don’t have the expenses that people getting those deductions for dependents do. Exemptions and deductions are taken off the AGI, not the tax you owe. Deductions exist because the theory is that is is cheaper to credit you for your expenses and reduce your taxes by 20% – 30% of that amount, than have the government pay 100% of the expenses from collected taxes.

Teamster Election ballots go out in early in early October, Will Obama be Campaigning for Hoffa? And will he call for my Union Dues to be taxed. Or not let
me write it off on my personal taxes. LOOPHOLES, LOOPHOLES, LOOPHOLES!!!!

@phantomniter who wrote: “Buffett and his rich buddies are free to send a check to the IRS anytime. Why must Warren be compelled by law to write a check for more than he legally owes?” — He’s not compelled to, and he doesn’t. He’s just said that he, and others like him should – legally – owe as much (percentage wise) as you or I. I pay around 30%.

The GOP would rather defeat OBAMA then help out the soon to be extinct middle class. We all know it. The top earners not only weathered this economic storm, they got even richer. The income gap is the greatest it has ever been. I am not for gouging anyone, but only that every one pitche in. We are all on the landing boat heading for Omaha beach.

Gracious 1:05 pm — You really don’t understand the Buffet tax comparison, do you! — Buffet earns income as “capital gains” while his secretary earns income on a W-2….. there are different rates for capital gains vs earned income!! —– So there is no “income tax” comparison!! —- If you want to look strictly at INCOME TAXES… the progressives have gotten what they wanted for the last 30 years!!! —– In 1980, the richest 1% paid 19% of all income taxes… In 1990, they paid 25%… In 2005 it was 39%… In 2010 they paid 40% of all income taxes!!! —– SO… it is SPENDING that is out of control and needs to be addressed… spending that Obama and the Dems have increased 24% in the last three years!!!

“The GOP would rather defeat OBAMA then help out the soon to be extinct middle class. We all know it. The top earners not only weathered this economic storm, they got even richer. The income gap is the greatest it has ever been. I am not for gouging anyone, but only that every one pitche in. We are all on the landing boat heading for Omaha beach.”

Omaha Beach? Stupid analogy.

SS should not even be a budget discussion now, it does not contribute to the national deficit and it should be pulled back out of the general fund and managed on it’s own as a seperate program.

People are already living in the streets and begging for food because all those jobs the wealthy do not have to pay taxes for are at a 9.2% deficit. But then congress is unconcerned about people who can’t make it without a job. Too, bad!! The Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil. The entire government with the exception of very few are as greedy as they come. The persons who are running for president spout God and religion but they show it is a lie through greed. Let us see Bachmann live on minimum wage and the cut it lower.

The top 400 richest Americans, all make over $110 million per year and make an average of $271 million per year, paid only 18 percent of their income in income taxes in 2008.

$271 million per year average earned by a rich person.

That means their ‘wage’ is $92,000 per hour, 60 hours per week, 49 weeks per year. And the right wing whines about union workers bargaining for $20 per hour and some medical coverage.

$92,000 per hour!

Tax them!

I see a lot about paying their fair share and comments about everyone pitching in to help our country. What about all the people out there who pay no taxes?? Just because you don’t make much doesn’t mean you don’t have to contribute, does it? Imagin if all those who don’t pay now pay just a few dollar in taxes each year. Every bit helps, right? But the president never says anything about those not paying taxes to begin with. Everyone wants to target the rich and make them pay more. It is not the American way.

If I make $40k per yer my tax rate may be higher than someone making $40 million but who pays more in the end? I guess Obamas plan is to make not only the middle class poorer but to loose the wealth of our nation by taking more from the rich and wasting it in the government. He’s an idiot and this is class warfare however you try to spin it!

Wow I’m shocked by the comments on this page.. never thought I’d see so many ney sayers. Class warfare is what happened to the middle class… they are extinct in this country. Truth be told we pay very little in taxes in this country compared to most of the world percentage wise.. TAke a look- go ahead google. Asking the weathy to pay a little bit more is not going to hurt them over all. Its a tea party sound bite. Really making 10 million a year versus 8 million a year??? it would be devestating for them.. huh? we are talking about everyone paying the same percentage of taxes…HOw is that class warfare?

Posted by: phantomniter | September 19, 2011, 12:30 pm Sometimes starting from scratch is the best medicine. – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – — – - – — — — – — – - – - – - — – - – - – - – — – - – Once the goose is dead and the vultures have their meal they will wish that they hadn’t killed the golden goose! Watch the movie “Idiocracy” to see what happens when “smart” people are breeded out of society!

I guess Obamas plan is to make not only the middle class poorer but to loose the wealth of our nation by taking more from the rich and wasting it in the government.

Posted by: Wells747 | September 19, 2011, 1:30 pm 1:30 pm

No, actually it’s money to pay back the huge deficits and debt rung up under the last President and the repercussions of the major economic collapse on the last president’s watch.

Why are capital gains taxed at 15%? I say tax it at 28% unless you can show that you are investing them in small business venture capital or an infrastructure bank with a return on it. That would be one way to fund infrastructure projects.

I’m appalled at our republican party for not embracing this call for a new minimum tax rate for individuals making more than $1 million a year to ensure that they pay at least the same percentage of their earnings as middle-income taxpayers. I am ashamed of our millionaires that their love of money is more important than their love of our country. I voted republican the last election hoping for a resurrection of truth and integrity in our Government. But you are all a bunch of hypocrites! You line your pockets with your dirty money! Shame on you democrats, you’re no better than the phony republicans. Special interest groups and lobbyist provide you hypocrites with the money you need to get re-elected. Your allegiance is not for the American people. Our forefathers would be ashamed of our government. I am ashamed of all of you. It’s time for the people to get a new government, one that is of the people, by the people, and for the people. Gus Piliafas

Obama also proposed other means to raise taxes, including more than $800 billion by allowing the Bush tax cuts for upper income earners to expire
===

They are his tax cuts now.
Even if he did extend them just so he had something to run on. He had the chance to change the rates and revamp the whole tax code, and he didn’t take it. The tax rates don’t belong to anybody but him and his Democratic House and Senate.

++Why are capital gains taxed at 15%? I say tax it at 28% unless you can show that you are investing them in small business venture capital or an infrastructure bank with a return on it. That would be one way to fund infrastructure projects.==

I agree completely. Psst…I’ve know of an awesome solar power company that is gonna be a big success. All it needs is about $535 million. I know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy who gave money to Obama so we are golden. Also, let me know if you are interested in purchasing a bridge…

“And you don’t have the expenses that people getting those deductions for dependents do. Exemptions and deductions are taken off the AGI, not the tax you owe.” Perhaps you have missed the point of the poster’s comment. Whether the exemptions and deductions are taken off of the AGI or off of taxes, the point is that the person with dependents pays less taxes than the person with no dependents. And the fact that someone does or does not have dependents IS A CHOICE. Whether or not that choice should be a burden of other taxpayers is questionable.

“Obama today outlined a revamped plan to reduce the nation’s debt”

And once again, we have the media LYING to the American people. This plan will not reduce one CENT off of the nation’s debt.

Amount of the federal 2011 budget: 3.8 Trillion
Amount of expected 2011 revenue: 2.1 Trillion.
Amount of reduction of DEFICIT (not DEBT!) from this new round of “cuts”: 300 Billion (3 trillion divided by 10 years)
Amount of spending above revenue, of NEW debt, THIS year (includies the earlier “cuts”, assuming they actually happen, which is far from certain): 1.25 TRILLION DOLLARS!

That’s a debt INCREASE not a reduction, of over a trillion dollars, just THIS year, never mind the other 9 years these pathetic “cuts” are spread over. This is NOT debt REDUCTION, people. This is completely out of control spending, and a government (of both parties) far to cowardly (and far too entrenched in it themselves) to do anything about. Meanwhile, they’re making everyone in the nation poorer, every day. How much longer, people?

Oh, and the laughable notion that you can tax businesses to make up for it ignores a simple fact of economics that even a first year student understands… business pay NO taxes… ever. Every cent that businesses are taxed is directly passed on to consumers, so massive taxation on business is just a way to play class politics (regardless of the president’s protestations to the contrary) and really massively tax consumers. I’m sure you’ll all enjoy that, while you’re cheering at Obama “sticking it to those evil corporations”. Fools!

Even if he did extend them just so he had something to run on. He had the chance to change the rates and revamp the whole tax code, and he didn’t take it. The tax rates don’t belong to anybody but him and his Democratic House and Senate.
— Is this how the game is played? NO company would prosper or survive if this is the way it functioned. We can’t get anything of value done unless the party is the same? Seems to me that is not how it should work, they all need to be adults and work together. No one ever gets exactly what they want, and I don’t like it being the same party anyway. Look at some of the huge deficits the Bush Admin and Republican congress created. They are all little kids… with big ego’s and their own agenda.

Posted by: Sal | September 19, 2011, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm

Pretty lame Sal. That company had lots of private money invested because the technology was exceptional and was going to produce energy cheaper than silicon-based materials. The company was hit by a major drop in world silicon prices.

Alternatives to the atrocious, horrific, economically bad OBOZO class-warfare proposal:

1. How about an “Immelt NO-TAX” instead of a “Buffett TAX”?
…immelt is an OBOZO CRONY CAPITALIST whose company, GE, paid NO FEDERAL TAXES on over $5 BILLION in PROFITS last year. GE is doing very well and creating jobs (in China, of course – what do you expect of an OBOZO crony?) but responsible companies would create jobs in America if their tax burden were reduced; buffett’s company owes the federal government $1 BILLION in back taxes.
2. How about LOWERING buffett’s secretary’s tax rates, instead of RAISING buffett’s (and everybody else who makes over $200K) tax rates?
…now that’s not only “fair” but also sound economic and fiscal policy that will benefit all Americans (PROVIDED FEDERAL SPENDING IS REDUCED CORRESPONDINGLY DOLLAR-FOR-DOLLAR.)

“I’m sure you’ll all enjoy that, while you’re cheering at Obama “sticking it to those evil corporations”. Fools!”

Lots of liberals bought a bridge in 2008. Now they don’t like the “infrastructure investment.” Not smart shoppers, but I love them, I do. I’m rolling in $ because of them. Business is good.

The sad part is all this president is trying to do is to find a way to pay for the huge deficits and debt left by the last president and the repercussions of the massive economic collapse on the last president`s shift.

“Pretty lame Sal. That company had lots of private money invested because the technology was exceptional and was going to produce energy cheaper than silicon-based materials. The company was hit by a major drop in world silicon prices.”

Gotta blame silicon prices. What can you do? I’m sure GK is crying himself to sleep…

Sal— good for you. You are rolling in money and surely paying your fair share of taxes. right?

Pretty lame Sal. That company had lots of private money invested because the technology was exceptional and was going to produce energy cheaper than silicon-based materials. The company was hit by a major drop in world silicon prices.

Posted by: Rene

Best joke I’ve heard all day today!

That is to funny. Fix it so we all pay the same percentage on your dollar earned after 20,000
Posted by: overandover

Now you’re talking! I don’t have a problem with this and I doubt you’ll find many fiscal conservatives would as well. Make it a low percentage, get rid of the IRS and institute a national sales tax and then we’re talking fair policy.

I’m sure GK is crying himself to sleep…

Posted by: Sal | September 19, 2011, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm

So are the Walton brothers, major Republican supporters and major investors in Solydra.

“90% of Americans pay non-refundable payroll tax. The right wing attempt to pretend 46% of Americans don`t pay tax is a scam. Now that phony propaganda is class warfare!”

My comment was about saving $. Kind of like the name I posted under: Save $. Try it you’ll like it. And nothing is better than fresh eggs. No joke. Heck, neighbors love ‘em too. And the harvest this year has been reallly, really good. Pickling and canning went quite well. And hunting season is coming up. Fresh meat. The vegan girlfriend is a vegan no more when I brought that venison off the stove last year. Used a cacciatore recipe. Top notch…

John, not nonsense as you say. Sure you will pay for commodity taxes,but so do the rich. Lower middle class and ones not working at all most likely will get a refund or a check for kids. Some of them make a living off it.

Lower middle class and ones not working at all most likely will get a refund or a check for kids. Some of them make a living off it.

Posted by: specmach | September 19, 2011, 2:10 pm 2:10 pm

There are refunds on income tax, NO REFUNDS ON PAYROLL TAX. 90% of Americans pay payroll taxes. The attempt to pretend 46% of Americans pay no tax is propaganda class warfare from the right wing. Sleazy, phony propaganda.

The last thing you want to do is raise taxes in a recession.

Posted by: Barry | September 19, 2011, 2:17 pm 2:17 pm

If the super rich invest their money in American jobs, give them tax breaks. If they hoard it, tax them.

“The last thing you want to do is raise taxes in a recession.”—————-Ummm a class in economics is in order I guess. 1) In a recession , prices for goods and services go down . 2) During inflationary economics times however , prices for goods and services go up . Now Einstein , which situation sounds more like today , prices going up , or prices going down ? Conservative have a real problem with the facts , mainly that the facts make them look like the nattering Know-Nothing naybobs that they in fact are .

“Raise taxes on the rich now Mr. President , it’s the right and correct thing to do , every honest intelligent person in the USA is behind you ”

Yeah, it’s the American way…USA, USA, USA, USA!!!!!!

“they are as happy as a pig in you-know-what when they can be stingy and greedy and conniving., and that is the kind of world the conservatives long for , a greedy, conniving self-centered petty world with little regulation so they can steal and loot and generally abuse the US labor force , or anyone else they can profiteer from for that matter , to their greedy heart’s content. Conservatives are mostly pure scum who need to be kicked to the curb of US sociopolitical discussion and never allowed to return , and their petulant inflexibility regarding these latest proposed absolutely prudent tax increases says volumes about their overall political honesty and credibility , i.e. less than zero. Pure scum.”

Wow, Michael Moore has nothing on you!

Conservative John – I don’t suppose you could point me to a website that displays all of Bush’s “plans?” Oh, that’s right. This is stupid rhetoric that means nothing on this one.

“The last thing you want to do is raise taxes in a recession,.”…Conservative have a real problem with the facts , mainly that the facts make them look like the nattering Know-Nothing naybobs that they in fact are .

Posted by: Daveymw | September 19, 2011, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm

You do realize who stated that first right? That quote is something Obama said last year genius.

Attatude, What are you talking about?

“There are refunds on income tax, NO REFUNDS ON PAYROLL TAX. 90% of Americans pay payroll taxes. The attempt to pretend 46% of Americans pay no tax is propaganda class warfare from the right wing. Sleazy, phony propaganda.”——————————-US conservatives are petty pandering disingenuous sophist manipulators of the lowest order . Scum like Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan need to be tarred and feathered in public for all the overt blatant lies and misinformation they’ve spread , and trash lie-spreading rags like FOX need to be put on the cartoon channel where they belong . Pure ideological demagogues who only care about themselves . They’ll work to scuttle / sink this good ship if they can’t be Capt. , what a bunch of scumbag traitors .

Seems to be a resounding “No” from the responses. Try again Obumbler….No Compromise GOP or you will be fired!

“US conservatives are petty pandering disingenuous sophist manipulators of the lowest order . Scum like Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan need to be tarred and feathered in public for all the overt blatant lies and misinformation they’ve spread , and trash lie-spreading rags like FOX need to be put on the cartoon channel where they belong . Pure ideological demagogues who only care about themselves . They’ll work to scuttle / sink this good ship if they can’t be Capt. , what a bunch of scumbag traitors .”

Yup, the worst bunch there is. Send ‘em to Gitmo!

“you do realize who stated that first right? That quote is something Obama said last year genius”.——————-Well what I was pointing out is that THE US IS NOT IN A RECESSION AT ALL AS SOME STUPID PEOPLE EVIDENTLY THINK . Now try hard to follow along here , I know this is past most conservative’s intellectual comfort zone , but try anyway please … 1)Since we in the USA are clearly NOT in a recession cycle ( because prices for good are going up , not down ) , then …2) the argument that ” raising taxes during a recession is a bad idea , etc. ” is moot / wrong / insignificant , because … 3) WE ARE NOT IN A RECESSION. Duh ! It’s so sad that I’d have to take the time to point out something so painfully obvious to the non-morons , but evidently it was necessary .

“The last thing you want to do is raise taxes in a recession,.”…Conservative have a real problem with the facts , mainly that the facts make them look like the nattering Know-Nothing naybobs that they in fact are .

Posted by: Daveymw | September 19, 2011, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm

You do realize who stated that first right? That quote is something Obama said last year genius.

Posted by: J.R. | September 19, 2011, 2:33 pm 2:33 pm

It’s a two-pronged approach – 1) lower payroll taxes on every working American to get more consumer dollars circulating to increase purchasing and increase jobs, and 2) tax the super rich to help reduce the debt.

For more than forty years, and every two years, I have seen elections, one after the other. All are like circuses, the same show, the same plot, the same goals, and the same act, and of course as you might expect, the same results. The only difference is some new names and new faces. It has become almost like watching the same movie over and over, or it has become like the well-known movie, “Groundhog day,” where it seems like the time has stopped at that day, and the characters were frozen in that act.

In every election be it midterm or presidential, we see the very same thing from the candidates and same coverage from the media, sometimes word for word from pundits on TV. Nothing seems to be new, and nothing seems to be moving from a standstill position.

For the last forty years or even longer, the issues are the same. The problems are the same. The solutions offered are the same. The snake-oil salesmen never stop trying to sell their medicine, a cure for- all medicine; each candidate has the magic recipe that will solve all our problems.

When are we, the voters, will learn that this game is old, it has been played so many timed before with the very same results, but we still think that the next time the results will be different, it is like someone who keeps turning the light switch on and off, hoping the next time the lights will come on, even though he suspects that there is no electricity.

The issues for the past half a century has not changed, let’s see now, balance budget, fiscal responsibility, social justice, unemployment, jobs, health care, social security, education , environment, business, labor, taxes, have I missed anything.

And in every election we have those who promise to fix many of these issues from one party, and the rest of it from another party, while the voters are sitting watching the same farce over and over and over, so when are we, the voters, will get off our comfortable seats and demand to be treated with respect, respect to our intelligence and be adequately compensated for our valuable votes.

If one, just one politician could achieve 60 % of his or her promises; this country of ours will be changed forever. The average candidate promises to take care of many issues not just one. Some will fix the deficits and budget, fix the unemployment and taxes, just to name a few, listen to them, from the president down. They will fix everything and they and only they, have the right solution to any problem, if we just give them our votes and put them in charge.

So if one candidate fulfills his or her promises, not all of them, but 60% of them, imagine, just someone fixing the unemployment and taxes, so these issues never come back again in the following election, how long you think it will take to fix all our problems, it may take another three, four or five elections, and this county will be trying very hard to find a problem to fix.

We need to hold them accountable for what they say; we should not be watching the same show over and over again. We should not have the same problems hanging on our heads and be waiting for those clowns to lie to us over and over, taking us for fools.

Let us be smart for once, let us get at least one candidate to fulfill his campaign promises, or just half of them, and see this country get rid of those problems in a few campaigns, just one politician in every election.

“So you’re implying that Mr. Obama isn’t competent because he can’t close the Pandora’s box that the conservatives stupidly and moronically threw open quickly enough to suit you ? Yep , you are a disingenuous conservative toad like all the rest , nothing to see here…”

An individual with another spelling of that poster’s name works in the WH under Obama. So nothing to see there either…

$3 in tax hikes for every $1 in spending cuts…

OBAMA_____VS______AMERICA

So Davey, are we in a recession or on the verge of a depression? Obama said a few weeks ago we need to raise taxes to get out of this RECESSION he said last year ended over a year ago. So he admitted we are still in a recession. Therefore he either lied then or he is lying now. Now he wants to spend more than a half a trillion again on another program that looks like the last failed trillion blown on the stimulus. Unemployment has not budged, no new jobs, commodities at all time highs, and spending with no results. Sure prices are going up. Because of all the printed money that was and still is being borrowed with nothing to back it with.

Davemw,
What are you talking about. Obama said he would close Getmo down. It’s been three years. Shouldn’t he have said he couldn’t shut Getmo down instead?

Oh yes. A dummy, Poo Poo, Pee Pee , Wee Wee to you too. How old are you Liberals?

CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Why Obama should withdraw from 2012 race…

Excellent Article.. Reagan: “its Morning in America”
Obama: its midnite in a coalmine

OBAMA___________VS___________AMERICA

LIBS VOW PRIMARY CHALLENGE AGAINST OBAMA

Run Maxine Run

We Tired Y’all…Maxine Waters

How old are you Liberals?

Posted by: Conservative John | September 19, 2011, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm

Which conservative’s john are you?

heh.

If this President were serious, he would propose REAL TAX REFORM for the entire tax code.

But, as always, he continues to Campaign for his Re-election.

I am so very tired of this man.

Crony,
What are you talking about? Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t get the potty humor right away. And a dummy, poo poo, pee pee, wee wee to you too.

Again, how old are you liberals?

Barb, and Obama has his new wars that are useless. How many billions have we spent in Libya for nothing? We do not even know the bunch they are trying to get to take over. Freedom Fighters, yea right. Obama has been in office for what, 36 months now? What has he done for anything that has been worthwhile much less the middle class. He talks it but nothing ever gets done. I can see why the GOP fights his policies, they all are failures. Why keep beating a dead horse.

He’s counting in troop withdrawl? Again? didn’t he already use that money to raise the deficit a few weeks ago? A trillion and a half in NEW taxes, on top of what is already being paid? Why doesn’t he just send in his resignation letter and save us standing in record long lines of people bristling to vote him out?

pat 3:33 pm —— There are problems with your simple assessment!! — First… Obama doesn’t want to give the GOP an simple and fair option, because the only chance he has in 2012 is to paint them as protecting the rich, heartless, and obstructionists!! — In truth, they are being very “fiscally sound” while Obama just wants to spend more money!!! —— Second… The “majority” of Americans think certain “ideas” sound good because they are not told the truth!!! —– Obama and the Dems say anything they want and the major media won’t hold them accountable!! — Example 1) We could raise taxes on “millionaires” all you want and it wouldn’t be enough money to solve the deficit… the MATH is bogus… the problem is runaway SPENDING!— Example 2) The progressives have gotten their way for the last 30 years and it HASN’T WORKED…. The “rich” are paying more…. In 1980, the richest 1% paid 19% of all income taxes… In 1990, they paid 25%… In 2005 it was 39%… In 2010 they paid 40% of all income taxes!!!

Can you explane the “war on the Middle class”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sure….This is the way Republicans do it: they give the highest earners big tax breaks, encourage a big financial bubble while taxes at the top are low so they can rake in the dough, and start a war and give out huge no-bid[free market??] military contracts for it to all their corporate buddies and put it all on a Chinese credit card, and when it all collapses claim we’re broke and have to cut all the services for working class Americans and put the burden of paying off all the resultant debt on them. It’s a gigantic redistributive scam. The ridiculous Ryan Budget proposal all the Republicans endorsed is just the continuation It redistributes large amounts of wealth by big tax giveaways to all the usual suspects while going on to pay for it all later by trying to substitute a ridiculously inadequate voucher program in place of Medicare, which benefits working class Americans. It’s a scam of epic proportions, and the voting public will be wise to soundly reject it…

@Sue… you did not answer John’s questions.. same old talking points.

Conservative John….LOl…so you are a CPA …huh? LOL….I ‘can’t understand’ why you don’t WANT to see the ‘loopholes closed’ and the tax code made simpler. LOL…. SO THAT THE WEALTHIEST DO INDEED PAY their fair share of taxes. I guess it would hurt business for you and all the renegade lawyers and accountants…wouldn’t it? LOL…LOL… Only ‘blind ideologues’ (with dollar incentives attached) refuse to see that the middle class is fast disappearing from our social landscape.

Typical libs, that mean ole big business is why we are in this shape. Doesnt have anything to do with 50% of americans not paying income tax, or Americans have gotten lazy and a lot refuse to work. We have become a medicore society so guess what, you can expect a medicore standard of living.

Posted by: s | September 19, 2011, 4:13 pm 4:13 pm

Not sure you caught what was said . . .

… the problem is runaway SPENDING!

Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition | September 19, 2011, 3:58 pm 3:58 pm

Mainly the problem is the Bush economic collapse which threw somewhere around 9 million Americans out of work and stripped trillions out of the economy and billions out of tax revenues. That’s on top of the deficits and the debt put in place under Bush because of the Bush tax cuts during expensive wars.

If it’s not class warfare then why raise taxes on only ONE class of people Mr. President?

Posted by: 57vw | September 19, 2011, 4:17 pm 4:17 pm

Uhm . . . because they have most of the money and have been gathering and hoarding more and more over the past couple of decades?

The top 1% of wealthy Americans own more of the country’s wealth than all of the wealth of the lowest 90% COMBINED.

Sue even assuming that Bush is responsible for every aspect of our current economic situation (a silly premise,but what the heck),after 2,5 years of abject failure trying to correct that situation it should be evident even to the most sycophantic Obama supporter that the man is not capable of fixing the problem. Period.Unfortunately for Obama a large percentage of the Democrat leadership recognizes that; the chicago Tribune editorial is the first leak of what a lot of Democrats are saying behind closed doors.He is a Lame Duck,beyond salvage.

TheLoyalOpposition 3:58 pm – I agree but unless the Republicans offer their ideas for increases in tax revenue, they will continue to be criticized as catering to the rich. Cuts must be the focus but so far the media’s idea of cuts are only to portray Granny not getting her SS checks and Johnny not getting the education he needs. How about these cuts: Change SS do you can only collect on your own earnings. Require annual recertification for most SS disability recipients and eliminate benefits for “disabilities” such as ADD and ADHD. Require gov’t workers to contribute the same percentage of wages towards medical benefits as the private sector. Require gov’t workers to contribute likewise towards their pension (and move towards a 401k plan) and set retirement age at 65. Allow the military to reject equipment they don’t need and bases that should be closed but aren’t today because they are in some politician’s home district. Eliminate ALL medical and retirement benefits for Congress after they leave office. Eliminate departments that are better handled and redundant at the state or local level (e.g. education). I’m sure there are many more meaningful cuts that can and should be made – and not the political ruse of “let’s reduce the planned increases and call it a reduction”.

What we are absolutely certain of is the Republicans cannot fix the problem, in fact they’re attempting to make it worse by proposing spending cuts and austerity…policies which were embraced by the Europeans. And it’s proving to be a huge failure over there as many economists warned, dragging economic growth and investment to a crawl. We have to stop the Republicans from foisting the same disaster on the US.

Sue 4:04 pm — The “Bush collapse” is a sound-bite misrepresentation!! —- Prove to me which policies of ONLY the Bush administration led to the “collapse”… and were those where Dems in congress were walking in lockstep — Before you say “war spending”, “large deficit”…. look at the true figures………. If you blame “Bush tax cuts”…. pleas understand that income tax revenue INCREASED for FIVE straight years AFTER the Bush tax cuts!! ——— If you blame “Bush deficits”…… pleas understand that the Bush’s deficits DECREASED for FOUR straight years before the Democrats took over Congress in 2007!!!! —- The “collapse” happened because the banks leveraged assets into bunndled housing paper….. we can look at several reasons for the housing and fannie-freddie collapse… none about Bush!!!

Sue, so if liberals are not that stupid, how do they defend the last 36 months of wasted 18 months on Obamacare that will be thrown out because it does nothing, unemployment not budging, cash for clunker fiscal, creditcard reform that just increased rates, and the failed trillion plus counting stimulus that failed. It would be hard for Obama to win a debate with his record as it is right now. He has nothing to go on.

What you have proposed is not a “deficit” plan, it’s called “tax and spend.” Been there done that, don’t work. You need need serious professional help, you just don’t get it.

2004: Under President Bush, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development announces that it will require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, also known as the Government‐Sponsored Enterprises (GSEs) “to increase their purchase of mortgages for low‐ and moderate‐income families and underserved communities.” In a Bloomberg News article, Congressman Frank criticizes the new rules, saying the White House “could do some harm if you don’t refine the goals.”

In order to meet these new requirements, the GSEs begin purchasing mortgage‐backed securities made up of subprime loans.

Einstien, do you have any idea who deregulated.? Little hint, the guy before Bush and the reason we have lost our jobs. Look and see who’s name is on that great deal.

Obamanation wants “Buffet Tax”, Buffet wants Buffet Tax, Buffet has been fighting the IRS NOT to pay $1,000,000,000. his company OWES in taxes for years now. So just how stupid do you have to be to be in the Obamanation fan club? So lets see hands on; how many want to hire more people, start new businesses, expand current businesses while not knowing what your future taxes, future employee costs will be? Lets see your detailed financial business plans you want to borrow $10,000,000. on and I will tell you some great jokes!!!

I need an example of this surfdom economics.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++==

OK from Robert Reich;

“Look back over the last hundred years and you’ll see the pattern. During periods when the very rich took home a much smaller proportion of total income — as in the Great Prosperity between 1947 and 1977 — the nation as a whole grew faster and median wages surged. We created a virtuous cycle in which an ever growing middle class had the ability to consume more goods and services, which created more and better jobs, thereby stoking demand. The rising tide did in fact lift all boats.”

“During periods when the very rich took home a larger proportion — as between 1918 and 1933, and in the Great Regression from 1981 to the present day — growth slowed, median wages stagnated and we suffered giant downturns. It’s no mere coincidence that over the last century the top earners’ share of the nation’s total income peaked in 1928 and 2007 — the two years just preceding the biggest downturns.”

Funneling most of the wealth to the top is not helping the economy despite the typical sales pitch that it does, but protecting tax breaks is the Tea Party’s top priority.

Oops, I meant equally unpopular tea party. And conservative john.

Skip, never heard of Robert. Is he as brilliant as Turbo Timmy, Bernie, or ole foot in the mouth Biden?If so, forget him. We have seen their results along with their so called boss for 36 months . Trillions blown and no results. Now we need another half a trillion for the same band-aid.

It’s pretty funny how right-wingers want us to believe that while the Republicans held majorities in Washington is was really Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who were setting policy and running the country. If so why bother electing Republicans?

It is math. Actually it is the Cayman Islands Investment Plan. I’m sure Mac Bush is happy with this proposal.

Kimberly, exactly, and now Obama wants to blow more money on the same plan that he wasted the first trillion on,most of it most likely political paybacks, lets fire his sorry —.Money spent, no results. Maybe another solar plant or a windmill.That worked out real well, another failure or a scandal?

“surfdom economics.”

What does the economics of surfing have to do with anything?

And serfs are so dark ages, yeah?

No……..it is funding more squanderous spending, on Obama’s part. He wants to spend all he possibly can, and do his utmost to bankrupt this country.

Lets see, the Demoncrats controlled congress for the last two Bush yrs., the Demoncrats controlled congress and the Presidency for the last two yrs, and now they control the Senate and Presidency only; oh yea, it is clear to me now that letting them control every branch of government results in economic prosperity for all!!!!

Politifact rates the claim that the stimulus created zero jobs as “Pants on Fire -False”
and included in their analysis this statement:

“Separately, the council’s report cited four independent analyses by the Congressional Budget Office and three private economic analysis companies. Here’s what the groups found:

CBO: Between 1.3 million and 3.6 million jobs saved or created.

IHS/Global Insight: 2.45 million jobs saved or created.

Macroeconomic Advisers: 2.3 million jobs saved or created.

Moody’s Economy.com: 2.5 million jobs saved or created.”

Good to see we are out of the recession. Where is ABC asking Obama this because just 6 months ago he said it would be foolish to raise taxes during a recession. Where is JFK and Regan when we need them to lead this country. No true leader would ever engage in class warfare like Obama because a divided nation is no longer a nation.

Specmach and those of like mind with Specmach,

Skip debunks part of your usual talking points @ 5:55 pm and Josh Harkinson looks at some of the others at “6 Dumb Arguments Against Taxing the Rich, Explained”. The six dumb arguments include the class warfare canard, the tax on small business canard, the concern trolling about incentives to work, create jobs and invest, etc. All six of the dumb arguments are used in this thread, I think. Time for those arguments to hit Davey Jones locker. Take a peek as well at “Obama deficit cuts popular in polls”— yo ho ho.
By Scott Clement

Vote these callous neo-John Birchers back to the last century where they belong.———————-Hear hear ! I second the motion ! Conservatives used to call themselves Democrats ( more specifically “Dixie-crats” ) back when no Republican ( aka Yankee) could get elected anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon line . Mostly a bunch o KKK ers , they were so out of step with the Bobby Kennedy / LBJ racial equality movement if the early 60s that they all left the Democratic party ca. 1962-68 , except for Robert Byrd , who apologized for the rest of his life , in contrast to the other Dixie-crats , who just got kicked to the curb of American politics , and rightly so. Conservatives today can trace their ugly roots directly right back to Selma and Woolworths , no doubt.

No true leader would ever engage in class warfare like Obama because a divided nation is no longer a nation.

Posted by: John H | September 19, 2011, 7:23 pm 7:23 pm

Hahahah! There are 400 people in this country earned an average of $271 million per years.

Your ‘nation divided’ has 400 people on one side of the the fence and the rest of us (312,251,894) on the other side of the fence. It’s not a ‘nation divided’, it’s a very few people hoarding most of the money in their special coffers – and the rest of us.

Why does the President have to do Congess’s job too? This the worst Congress ever….

Class warfare??? Two unpaid wars and the soldiers giving their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq are not from the upper class. That is where the class warfare originated…soldiers from poorer families fighting the oil wars while Haliburtan and the oil companies make record profits and pay the CEOs record bonuses. The right wing wants to shrink government by strangling it. Also the right wing wants to sacrifice the well being of our economy in order to make Obama a one term president.

Take the situation of a middle class or lower middle class family. If the expenses get too high, the dad or mom goes out and gets a second job, likely at WalMart. Telling families that cannot afford to put food on the table to cut back is wrong. How may of you bought your own groceries lately?

Tax breaks for corporate jets…gee, can I get a tax break because I have to drive my 12 year old car 70 miles a day to my job?

Class warfare has been going on long before now.

This is just meat for the left wing mush-heads. Offered with full knowledge that it doesn’t have a prayer of passing. Of course he could have offered this job killing plan when his party had a filibuster-proof senate and a majority in the house. But then there was a risk that it would actually become law, and really sink the economy. No, this is simple pandering…..appealing to simple class envy.

Posted by: free_2_choose | September 20, 2011, 12:16 am 12:16 am

Are you kidding? The bulk of the wealth in the country resides with the richest of us. The top 1% has more of the wealth of the country than the wealth of the entire bottom 90% combined.

Tax them!

THE INCOME TAX DEBATE IS A SHAM. WHAT WE NEED IS:

A replacement tax: A US corporation that directly or indirectly hires someone in a foreign country must pay US income tax that an equivalent US-based employee would pay.

A layoff tax equal: If a US corporation lays off US workers, they must pay every layoff victim two years’ wages in a lump sum at the time of layoff. Double the tax if the job is sent overseas.

Do the math Obama! Friggin IDIOT!!!!!!

““surfdom economics.”
What does the economics of surfing have to do with anything?
And serfs are so dark ages, yeah?” – Kimberly

Aren’t we headed to the Dark Ages with NoBo leading the way?
Serf’s Up!

This is not redistribution of wealth. The rich are not taxed on assets, holdings, property, and neither is the middle or lower class. We are talking Income Tax…you know, the 1040? This is tax on NET or AGI income, not on wealth. And there are direct federal taxes on gasoline, telephone service, that are paid whenever we fill up our car’s gas tank or check our telephone bills.

Last I knew it, capital gains was when a person sold an asset, it was the increase in the worth of the asset from time of purchase to the time of sale. It was not the asset itself, unless it was bought for nearly nothing and sold when very valuable. Dividents are not capital gains. Dividents are income paid to the investor. Let’s get these terms separate. For instance, if I had a few million in stocks, but the dividents paid only ten thousand a year (I know, bad investment)…the income tax would be on that ten thousand, not on the value of the asset.

What the right wing is doing is confusing the idea of wealth…exactly what is wealth? Business income? Are we talking total revenue or after the wages, benefits, overhead, and other expenses are paid to the owner and employees? The so-called profit is after all the bills are paid, not before.If the income after taxes is taxed at a lower rate than the rest of us schmucks, there incentive is to sit on the cash and hoard it. If the net income were taxed at a rate comparable to the rest of us, the incentive would be to reduce that tax liability by reinvesting the cash and using it to further the business, create jobs. We all hate taxes, but something is wrong when the wealthiest do not pay their share and have cuts and loopholes available to them that amount to millions and millions.

ANYONE supporting huge federal spending cuts to social programs during bad economic times and high unemployment is stupid. Especially if they support these cuts without doing anything to increase federal revenue. Until the economy stabilizes and unemployment goes down, cutting the legs out from under millions of Americans who are at risk due to poverty is unconscionable. As well as bad economic policy. The poor and the Middle Class put every dollar they get right back into the economy. Every unemployment dollar, every Medicare dollar, every single dollar they can get their hands on goes right back into the economy……….

From the Associated Press…..

“President Barack Obama makes it sound as if there are millionaires all over America paying taxes at lower rates than their secretaries. “Middle-class families shouldn’t pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires,” Obama said Monday. “That’s pretty straightforward. It’s hard to argue against that.”

Actual data tells a different story. On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data. They pay at a higher rate, and as a group, they contribute a much larger share of the overall taxes collected by the federal government. There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. That, however, was less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.”

It sounds to me like we need to review loopholes.

It is, at the very least, a plan to bankrupt the US.

My FIRST post of the day, and I get:

You are posting comments too quickly. Slow down.

When you tell people that they DO NOT DESERVED ALL THAT THEY WORKED SO HARD TO ACHIEVE and you tell THOSE THAT HAVE NOT WORKED AT ALL, that they deserve all of what others have EARNED, that’s class warfare.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a community organizer…..that’s our Prez.

There is one underlying assumption that seems to be less spoken than the name “Lord Voldemort.”

That assumption is that the “rich” don’t get any of the services of the federal government.

I mean, the trade off is always the “rich” get taxed while everybody else loses some services from the federal government, which the “rich” have to pay for.
Funny how that is never explicitly said.

MICHAEL GAYER: “Where was this great Jobs plan in 2009, 2010, July 2011. No where ”

That was called the Obama Stimulus and it failed. To your point, if this was something different or better, it should have been presented a long time ago. Instead, it’s just more of the same government waste and failure when the people need their money the most.

Obama says we must all tighten our belts. Obviously, that doesn’t mean government. Bloomberg reports:
“The inspector general reviewed a sample of 10 Justice Department conferences held between October 2007 and September 2009 at a cost of $4.4 million. The Justice Department spent $73.3 million on conferences in fiscal 2009, compared with $47.8 million a year earlier, according to the report.”

The Justice Department spent 35% MORE in 2009 than in 2008 on CONFERENCES. 25.5 MILLION DOLLARS MORE.

This is absurd government spending. Try teleconference!

Green energy development is outstripping all other industrial growth by 2:1. The failure of one energy company does not signal the end of this trend.

Green energy development is outstripping all other industrial growth by 2:1. The failure of one energy company does not signal the end of this trend.
Posted by: SKIP | September 20, 2011, 12:03 pm 12:03 pm

FIVE green companies that received stimulus money have since gone bankrupt. We don’t know how many have filed that didn’t receive funds.

IF it were as great as you claim, they wouldn’t need government funding. Corporations would be standing in line to invest.

I have no shame whatsoever in proudly declaring that right-wing ideological baloney is not freedom.

SKIP: “The failure of one energy company does not signal the end of this trend. . . . Don’t listen to right-wing ideological baloney . . .”

Solyndra was to be the poster-child for government green ‘investment,’ but it has become the poster-child for the failure of government spending, central planning, and waste. Conservatives warn of this ‘baloney’ all the time and will continue to do so until Election Day 2012! You liberals will answer for your failure.

Under the laws of unintended consequences, Obama’s overall tax plan should finish off the remaining U.S. general aviation and luxury boatbuilding companies and their highly-paid employees, raise borrowing costs to state and local governments (zeroing out his one-time spending bonus to retain teacher positions), and result in reduced employment in sectors exposed to increased corporate and income taxation, which comes with the additional penalty of lost wages and tax revenues from the laid-off workers. Increased taxes on the rich invariably hurt the poor and the middle-class more than they hurt the rich. The rich do not passively accept large increases in taxation, but change their behavior instead – taking reduced salaries, abandoning formerly tax-advantaged capital gains assets (thus depressing the markets), reclassifying assets as corporate assets, and/or placing their assets in tax-free or tax-deferred instruments such as trusts or partnerships. Those that cannot totally avoid the increase in taxes respond by cutting down on spending and purchasing fewer luxury goods and services, severely affecting that sector of the market. It is the middle class and the poor who bear the brunt, as businesses retrench or go out of business entirely, and the workers are laid off. It should be noted that Obama’s millionaire’s tax isn’t indexed for inflation, and like the AMT which was originally intended to affect only high-income earners, will eventually affect taxpayers who aren’t wealthy, becoming a tax on the middle class (a process hastened by the continual printing of money by the Fed).

Does government spending create jobs? Ask the workers at General Dynamics, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, etc, etc who depend on defense spending. Whats the difference between spending money building ships, airplanes , tanks et al and spending money fixing roads ,bridges and building a high speed rail system.

You republicans need to be less selective in your rhetoric.

TFERRETTI: “Whats the difference between spending money building ships, airplanes , tanks et al and spending money . . .”

First, National security trumps wasteful entitlements and government Keynesian spending. Second, much of the road and bridge repair should be paid for by the local people who use them most, not everyone else. I think there’s a place for the federal government as related to interstate highways and other multi-state projects, but no where near to the extent they are involved now.

TFERRETTI: “Do you honestly think this countries infra-structure has nothing to do with national security . . .”

I never said that. I simply said much of the so-called infrastructure spending should be paid for by the localities that use them, not the rest of the country.

TFERRETTI: “How are the states going to pay for it . . .”

By living within their means like they should have to begin with.

TFERRETTI: “. . . their firing police, firemen| and teachers?”

Then, they should focus less on other wasteful government ventures so they can properly fund things more important to the people. It’s this out-of-control government spending that got us here, not a lack there of.

TFERRETTI: “The plain fact is, it “will” create jobs just as the WPA, CCA and TVA created jobs in the 1930s.”

Even if you overlook the fact that government spends the people’s money at a loss, creating jobs much less efficiently, the shovels aren’t always ready, as we found with the first Obama Stimulus. Why do you think a second Obama Stimulus would be any different?

ANONYMOUS

Shovel ready? Nothing is shovel ready, It took months and months of planning for the Manhatten Project , even though we were fighting for our survival.

The first stimulus stopped us from losing 1/2 million jobs per month and avoided a depression. The presidents bill is a good start,.

Our infra-structure is falling apart , people need jobs, its not rocket sciece to figure out what to do.

TFERRETTI: “The first stimulus stopped us from losing 1/2 million jobs per month and avoided a depression.”

You mean wasteful state government jobs you spoke of earlier? Good riddance. Again, the people’s money will always do better when they spend it themselves.

TFERRETTI: “Our infra-structure is falling apart , people need jobs, its not rocket sciece to figure out what to do.”

Yeah, stop wasting the people’s money in government on things they don’t need or want. And, you liberals just want more . . . it’s not rocket science, indeed.

SKIP: “Government is not always less efficient.”

Yes, they are. The reason is when the people create a job, it is less the government bureaucracy and overhead. Further efficiency is lost by diverting funds from those jobs that the market naturally favors to those government gives their artificial political priority to. When the market makes up for it, we all pay.

SKIP: “For instance the costs of operating Medicare is only a fraction of what private firms charge.”

Since private firms don’t run Medicare, there’s no way to know what they would charge, but you can be sure it would be less than government.

but you can be sure it would be less than government

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If so it would be easy to propose a plan which expands coverage for less money….but alas the Republicans have never been able to do it.

On can always turn to Krugman for elucidation:

“For Medicare, with all its flaws, works better than private insurance. It has less bureaucracy and, hence, lower administrative costs than private insurers. It has been more successful in controlling costs. While Medicare expenses per beneficiary have soared over the past 40 years, they’ve risen significantly less than private insurance premiums. And since Medicare-type systems in other advanced countries have much lower costs than the uniquely privatized U.S. system, there’s good reason to believe that Medicare reform can do a lot to control costs in the future.”

Trying to pass off some half-baked voucher program as an adequate substitute for Medicare like the Ryan Budget does should be rejected by voters.

“Government is not always less efficient. For instance the costs of operating Medicare is only a fraction of what private firms charge.” – Skip

Only if you disregard the Massive Fraud Payments they make monthly.

come on, guys. What’s all the fuss is about ? The dude did not speak for himself. He READ the lines from the tele-prompter. Axelrod probably wrote every single word of the speech.

It’s dated to play a race card, so the new card is ” Class Welfare” game.

TFERRETTI: “Sorry, those 1/2 million jobs were not, or even close to being all government jobs. There is no such thing as a wasteful job if it pays the morgage and puts food on the table.”

If you think of it this way: for every overpaid government worker and wasted dollar in government many more private sector jobs could be created. More mortgages could be paid and more food on the table in more households if we reduce government to doing only what it needs to do.

TFERRETTI: “Are you saying a good infra-structure is not needed or wanted by Americans?”

Let me repeat what I said earlier for you:

Much of the road and bridge repair should be paid for by the local people who use them most, not everyone else. I think there’s a place for the federal government as related to interstate highways and other multi-state projects, but no where near to the extent they are involved now.

TFERRETTI: “The next time you drive down I-40 and your car falls into a pothole or a bridge is closed because its unsafe, ask youself whether its worth it or not.”

No. All the government inefficiency and waste is not worth it. That’s why government should only do what it must. Because what it must do it rarely does well.

TFERRETTI: “Where do you get that all government agencies are ineffcient and wasteful.”

1. Government doesn’t create anything — it simply redistributes money from one group to another. In the process of doing this, money is wasted on administrative overhead and delays involved with government serving as an unnecessary middle-man.

2. Money is almost always better spent by the people who actually earn it. People tend to spend their own money more wisely than spending other people’s money.

3. Government spending based on artificial political priorities rather than market-based priorities temporarily distorts the market, causing inefficiency and less long-term stability.

TFERRETTI: “Do you actually think the majority of government employess are over paid.”

They are paid about 33% more than the average private sector employee, according to the latest report. Since government is heavily unionized, and most unions base increases on seniority rather than merit, this, in combination with endless stories about government waste and corruption goes a long way to supporting this claim.

TFERRETTI: “If you want to see inefficiency go to a bank, brokerage firm or department store and see how efficient they are.”

Keeping up with all the government regulations has that effect. In any case, private businesses can run their business how they please. Government belongs to all of us, and it must be run efficiently.

TFERRETTI: “The whole point is, tax breaks to the big corporations and de=regulation won’t create jobs, it never did and it never will.”

So government created every job since 1776? Try again.