Shovel-Ready, Take II: Would Obama Infrastructure Plan Create Jobs Now?

The short answer is “no”.

What’s wrong with Obama’s reported plan?

The extension of payroll cuts will inflict damage/less income to social security resulting in more calls to cut social security. New payroll cuts =same thing.

Extending unemployment? Good idea. Employers trying out workers for free? A stupid idea that you would expect from a republican. There may be a few employers who would use the policy as it is intended but most of them don’t have that many ethics. A lot of them would start getting rid of the people they currently have on the payroll and substitute the free employees for as long as they were free.

Money for roads and bridges might reach their intended goal, but what do you want to bet the money for the schools and hiring teachers will be siphoned off (probably as intended) to subsidize Obama and Duncan’s goal to privatize schools.

Throw in the cuts to social services that will result from the above spending and its a future disaster.

All thumbs down all the way.

His administration has already leaked all his “ideas.” Do we still have to watch? Same old, same old.

Oops! This guy has run out of clues.

It would appear that the only thing in Washington that is “shovel ready” is the amount of BS Mr Obama is offering in the name of job creation.

Are there a million construction workers who are unemployed? Probably.

Why is it that when Democrats call for job stimulus programs the money is almost always funneled into creating jobs for union labor while largely ignoring the millions of non union unemployed workers.

It seems like every time the Democrats propose a health care plan, big companies lay off tens of thousands of workers in order to avoid the expense. Perhaps Mr Obama should announce the cancellation of his health care plan so business can make long term plans about hiring workers to permanent jobs again without the question marks surrounding future health care costs for new workers.

To help employers, payroll tax cuts should be made permanent, not set to expire at some future point which will lead to future layoffs and cutbacks. Business needs to be confident in the longer term before they will begin hiring again. Replace the lost tax revenue by closing loopholes in the current tax code.

If stimulus money is needed, use the money to create new jobs that have other net positive effects which are long term such as increasing incentive subsidies for home owners to install solar new power equipment. The stimulus would create jobs, lessen energy demands, and increase homeowner property values lost to the recession. One condition, stimulus money would only be available to installations of equipment which is Made In America!!

While he is at it, how about a program that helps home owners who have lost every thing in recent natural disasters. How about creating a Federal Program that matches the newly homeless with existing home inventory the banks are sitting on. With such a program, disaster victims are moved out of flood zones and get relief, and banks unload properties they have been sitting on which are in non flood zones.

This would be a win-win-win. Government would be relieved from future costs associated with recurring flood zones, Banks would be able to move stagnant properties, and homeowners would be relieved of expense associated with repeated natural disasters. Another condition supporting American made goods only in these homes would help create jobs.

Carney just said on Fox and Friends that Obummer wasn’t going to give details tonight in his hot air speech. He will give the details later in another speech! What is this all about? Just keeping him on tv in everyone’s face geting free tv time. That is all it is about. Rick Perry is having a fundraiser in Richmond Va on Wednesday. It has been planned for a few weeks,. Well guess who decided to go to Richmond this Friday? Trying to steal his thunder no doubt. I thought Perry was very good last night in the debate. He held his own, considering he was the target of everyone there.

This is like a bad case of the flu..just when you think you’re over it, here it comes again. “First responders, teachers, infrastructure”..translation? more union jobs, more union dues, more money for Obama..no long term employment fixes. The government’s role is not to create short-term jobs..the government’s role is to create a climate that is favorable for companies to create long term jobs…call off the regulatory dogs! Why are we not laying down pipelines in Alaska?? Building nuclear power plants? Drilling for natural gas in Colorado?All Obama can do is lay down new MPG requirements..resulting in teeny-tiny cars, lighter metals, no spare tire.. Is he gonna squeeze his daughters into one of these little toys when they start driving?

:Let’s see. “Infrastructure” – Years in the planning. More years in the doing. Capital intensive. Knowledge intensive. Yep. You bet. That’ll put millions and millions to work by Monday! BTW – when have you ever NOT seen highway and bridge construction EVERYWHERE. Check out W. Virginia. The state is covered up with Byrd bridges and Byrd highways – and how prosperous is it? “Infrastructure”, a necessary issue – but a catch word for idiots.

Here we sit – with the old Democrat dilemma: “Who will we take the wealth from this time?” Funny that on the EXACT SAME DAY we have a “Super” deficit reduction committee meeting we also have the Prez announcing $300-400 billion in added expenditures. It is surely a perplexing paradox!

Nothing but another Obama political speech where he will try and bash the GOP. What a joke he has become.

Jack – This guy has run out of clues — Jack, if you were paying attention you would have realized early on that he never had a clue

TINA, September 8, 2011, 8:30 AM:

“I AM ALL FOR REBUILDING ROADS AND BRIDGES AND CONSTRUCTION, BUT I AM NOT A CONSTRUCTION WORKER, I AM A WOMEN – HOW WILL THIS JOB OPPORTUNITY HELP ME?”
===================================================
Economics = the circulation of money. The construction worker gets paid. He pays the roofer, eats at a restaurant, buys clothes, pays his childrens soccer team participation, etc. …. The money doesn’t just stay with the “construction worker”.

Economics = the circulation of money. The construction worker gets paid. He pays the roofer, eats at a restaurant, buys clothes, pays his childrens soccer team participation, etc. …. The money doesn’t just stay with the “construction worker”.

Posted by: Georgie_Bushie
—–You mean we are dependent on construction workers to spend and get this economy going??? Were in trouble if thats the plan unless you own a liquer store.

I AM A WOMEN – HOW WILL THIS JOB OPPORTUNITY HELP ME?”
===================================================
Economics = the circulation of money. The construction worker gets paid. He pays the roofer, eats at a restaurant, buys clothes, pays his childrens soccer team participation, etc.————-that is EXACTLY why we are in recession. We keep giving money to people who dont spend it..the rich. CUSTOMERS create jobs. WHen there is someone going to the movies, to the restaurant, hiring hte plumber, getting their hair cut, putting their kid in soccer or taking piano lessons…. CUSTOMERS. Regular folks. We give taxcuts to the ubber rich, we give capital gain tax cuts, we pay higher usery fees for banks, credit cards, prices on everything has gone up, while businesses are FLUSH with profits….the SAME PEOPLE over and over keep getting more and more cash from every angle. And they dont increase their spending with more cash. They already get everything they need, they always did. The amount of cash they have makes no dent in their spending it. The middle class, however, NEED things, services, but aren’t doing them because they dont have the money. Give THEM the money and they will spend it, thereby becoming a CUSTOMER. We need to TAX THE RICH!!!!! The money is STUCK up the top of the economic scale and there is a huge funnel every day, sending more and more of it up there. Oil companies made over 200 BILLION in PROFIT last year. Did a penny of that funnel back down to the average joe???? no. We just paid MUCH more for gas and the rich filled their banks accounts WHILE getting their tax cuts and WHILE getting their capital gain tax cuts WHILE getting more profit. The same people are getting richer and richer and richer. The sucking sound of money in this economy keeps going up. So less customers down below. This is a self feeding cycle. The only way to stop it is to get the money BACK DOWN and RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH!

whoopstheydiditagain | September 8, 2011, 9:18 am 9:18 am —- A “stimulus” is supposed to stimulate the economy. If the economy is slowing, it didn’t stimulate anything but more debt.

How much do you want to bet that these jobs are tied to union companies??? Any takers???

Posted by: billy bob | September 8, 2011, 8:43 am 8:43 am

billy bob, I’m not going to take you up on that bet because I don’t want to lose my money!! I absolutely agree with you, and have been saying the same thing since the first stimulus passed. Just wait and see how ‘transparent’ the bids are for these construction/infastructure jobs. I hope folks are willing enough to check into the companies who get the contracts, as I’m sure you’ll find some connection to either Obama or one of his cronies in the fine print.

Posted by: Shoe | September 8, 2011, 9:25 am 9:25 am
—If its like the first stimilus it will be tied to union companies and set asides for mirnority owned companies. Still looking for takers???

–You mean we are dependent on construction workers to spend and get this economy going?—-the work also needs materials, equipment and people make that equipment, sell it, ship it. and yes, the construction workers will spend all of their pay checks. They’re pay their mortgages, they’ll eat, they’ll go to the movies, etc. Customers grow jobs. We need more customers. NOBODY will hire UNLESS they feel they have to and the only reason you HAVE to hire is because you cannot meet your customer base with the people you have. YOu need more to sell to them, or ship to them, or wait on them, or make what the customers want. Create CUSTOMERS and CEOS WILL hire because to NOT hire will lose them potential money.

I picked up my wife last night from some sort of Womens thing and could not believe all the women bashing Obama. It was so funny.

OBAMA HAS NO CLUE, September 8, 2011, 9:33 AM:

“I picked up my wife last night from some sort of Womens thing and could not believe all the women bashing Obama. It was so funny.”
=================================================
LOL! …… I wouldn’t be sharing with the rest of the world that you married an idiot. Idiots do usually hang out with other idiots… LOL!

If its like the first stimilus it will be tied to union companies and set asides for mirnority owned companies—that’s completely untrue and that is where your racism comes in. We had many projects going on around here and I saw the people working them nad they were all white, not that it matters, but you’re just being racist now.

Posted by: whoopstheydiditagain | September 8, 2011, 9:32 am 9:32 am
—-You do not have a clue what you are talking about. I get the government construction report every week and I can show you exactly what stimilus jobs are set asides. Racism has nothing to do with it but reverse racism has a lot to do with it. You need to stick with topics you know somthing about.

Georgie_Bushie | September 8, 2011, 9:36 am 9:36 am —- Hey X Republican Because of Bush in Disguise, you don’t need to be so rude to people. Then again, most of us are used to it.

COMMONSENSEPARTY, September 8, 2011, 9:27 AM:

“A “stimulus” is supposed to stimulate the economy. If the economy is slowing, it didn’t stimulate anything but more debt.”
========================================================
LMAO! …………………. Sorry COMMONSENSEPARTY, we tried the only form of “stimulus” that Republiicans know, “TAX CUTS”, LOL…. TWICE, under G.W. Bush. ……. LOL… in fact, those things are still in existence today…. and guess what, they’re not working…. LOL.

George_Bushie, I see you are a name caller where doe that put you?
Posted by: Obama has no Clue | September 8, 2011, 9:38 am 9:38 am—————————————-After the ransacking your fellow Republican did to America for eight years, who in the world would have a clue to the right find solutions. But I bet you’re not aware of what happened in those eight years apparently.

LOL! …… I wouldn’t be sharing with the rest of the world that you married an idiot. Idiots do usually hang out with other idiots… LOL! Posted by: Georgie_Bushie | September 8, 2011, 9:36 am 9:36 am
———————That’s why I’ve always said about Beck and Tea bagger followers

Posted by: billy bob | September 8, 2011, 9:41 am 9:41 am

Hey, take it easy on Georgie, he’s just unstable and excitable.
He wants to be civil, he just doesn’t know how.

That’s why I’ve always said about Beck and Tea bagger followers

Posted by: garcia | September 8, 2011, 9:47 am 9:47 am
—What form of the english language is this??? LOL

Doomed to fail, before the speech is even given.

Felix G. Rohatyn, Special Advisor to the Chairman and CEO, Lazard Freres and Co. LLC:

“While America’s economic competitors and partners around the world make massive investments in public infrastructure, our nation’s roads and bridges, schools and hospitals, airports and railways, ports and dams, waterlines, and air-control systems are rapidly and dangerously deteriorating.

China, India, and European nations are spending–or have spent–the equivalent of hundreds of billions of dollars on efficient public transportation, energy, and water systems. Meanwhile, the American Society of Civil Engineers estimated in 2005 that it would take $1.6 trillion simply to make U.S. infrastructure dependable and safe. The obvious, negative impact of this situation on our global competitiveness, quality of life, and ability to create American jobs is a problem we no longer can ignore.”

Posted by: Georgie_Bushie | September 8, 2011, 9:38 am 9:38 am

Relevant quote. The global competitiveness report looks at overall quality of infrastructure and also the quality of railroad infrastructure development, port infrastructure, air transport and electric supply when ranking the world’s nations according to the Global Competitiveness Index. More problematically for the United States, competitiveness hinges mainly on well-functioning public and private institutions … but the right wing would like to abolish our public institutions rather than ensure they are well-functioning. Their brinkmanship regarding the debt ceiling and the deal Obama was prepared to agree to truly was pathetic. And then the tea party cheered the downgrade and resulting economic uncertainty.

Kimberly,the more relevant quote is from Reuters-”414,000″

No. I’ll be re-arranging my underwear drawer. *yawn*

you can get you shovel ready to start shoveling the B/S..
The jobs are going out of the country…we need to raise the duty rates to stop it.

Georgie_Bushie 9:43 am —– You said “we tried the only form of “stimulus” that Republiicans know, “TAX CUTS” ——- Because you always post with “stereotypes” and “generalities”… not facts….. You fail to acknowledge the TRUTH about the Bush Tax Cuts!! —- FIRST… Income tax revenue INCREASED for five straight years AFTER the Bush tax cuts!! — SECOND… Bush’s deficits DECREASED for four straight years before the Dems took over Congress! — THIRD — Beginning January 2007 the Democratic Party controlled both houses of Congress… Pelosi & Reid bypassed Bush entirely using continuing resolutions to keep government running in 2009 until Barack Obama could take office… and INCREASED spending 24%!!! —– Deficits have increased dramatically since the Dems took over!! —- Yet you are still pointing fingers… sad for you!!!

I found it ironic that Jay Carney said that economists are in agreement that a reduction in payroll tax would stimulate the economy. If that is correct then why wouldn’t the same logic apply….and that raising taxes would tend to stagnate the economy. You can’t have it both ways!

Posted by: penoftruth | September 8, 2011, 9:50 am 9:50 am

Pen of truth, the issue is customers and demand. Those who are hardest hit by the recession and often demonized by the right for allegedly not paying taxes do pay payroll tax. Herman Cain noted this in talking about his 9-9-9 plan. People with less income tend to spend their money rather than save or sit on it, because they don’t make enough to save or sit on. Hence, in theory, by increasing workers’ cash flow, the payroll tax cut would encourage additional spending in the economy – something that is needed. Customers, customers, customers. In addition, a payroll tax cut reduces the tax wedge between what it costs employers to hire a worker and the worker’s after-tax reward. Because of that, in theory, it ought to reduce unemployment but the theory doesn’t seem to be working for multiple reasons but mostly because under our current economic conditions, tax cuts are passive . the payroll tax cut only affects those with jobs; many will pocket the savings perceived as temporary; some don’t need the payroll tax cut rather the unemployed need jobs…

That said, I think the GOP is being hypocritical on the payroll tax cut extension. They don’t want any tax increases, but not extending the payroll tax cut would be a tax increase if you use the same logic that was used for extending the Bush tax cuts. The difference is who it is for… middle-income families and those in lower-income categories.

Kimberly,the more relevant quote is from Reuters-”414,000″

Posted by: Nephron | September 8, 2011, 10:24 am 10:24 am

I agree, actually. As I said above, the payroll tax cut only affects those with jobs; many will pocket the savings perceived as temporary; some don’t need the payroll tax cut rather the unemployed need jobs…

All this talk about Obama spending 800 billion, and Obamacare- Sorry a President does not rule by decree BOTH the CONGRESS and SENATE voted to pass those bills- Bush as well didnt spend a trillion on the wars, that money was voted into law by the CONGRESS and SENATE. Presidents do not rule by decree- CONGRESS spends the money- If you have a problem with the spending in this country you have no further to look then the CONGRESS, and SENATE. The founding fathers created the CONGRESS for two reasons #1-Make the Laws #2 Manage the Budget. Stop blaming Presidents start blaming the CONGRESS.

“That said, I think the GOP is being hypocritical on the payroll tax cut extension.”

Posted by: Kimberly | September 8, 2011, 10:44 am 10:44 am

No they’re not. They know the FICA tax cut hastens the insolvency of the Social Security system, which was Obama’s plan all along.

So Nephron, agreeing with you makes my posts irrelevant? That’s funny, but surely you can muster a shred of self esteem. Every once in a great while you come up with a sentence I can agree with in some respect.

Here’s Paul Ryan when a Republican was president talking about his support of a stimulative payroll tax cut:

Here’s Ryan in 2001, arguing for stimulative tax cuts on precisely the grounds he now deplores:

” I like my porridge hot. I think we ought to have this income tax cut fast, deeper, retroactive to January 1st, to make sure we get a good punch into the economy, juice the economy.”

Now, he likes it cold?

Honestly, these people are hypocrites.

I am sick of his campaign speeches. The only speech I want to hear is the one that says,” I resign”. That is a speech I will tune in to. And I think the thuderous applause will be heard world wide.

NO-SHOVEL-READY-JOBS PART DEUX is simply an attempt to control the damage that has been done by this Presidency.

Sorry but people hate to watch a re-run show. Repetition is good but in this case repetition is like a broken records and not too many people listen to a broken LPs any more.

Too little and too late.

AP reports:
“Hundreds of Longshoremen stormed the Port of Longview early Thursday, overpowered and held security guards, damaged railroad cars, and dumped grain that is the center of a labor dispute, said Longview Police Chief Jim Duscha.

Six guards were held hostage for a couple of hours after 500 or more Longshoremen broke down gates about 4:30 a.m. and smashed windows in the guard shack, he said.

No one was hurt, and nobody has been arrested. Most of the protesters returned to their union hall after cutting brake lines and spilling grain from car at the EGT terminal, Duscha said.

The International Longshore and Warehouse Union believes it has the right to work at the facility, but the company has hired a contractor that’s staffing a workforce of other union laborers.”

Why is no one been arrested?

unless your a union member the dems dont care about you. they are playing to the extreme left.

KIMBERLY: “. . . but the right wing would like to abolish our public institutions rather than ensure they are well-functioning.”

We would rather move their function to the private sector that does most everything better and more efficiently. Government should only be involved where the private sector cannot be.

KIMBERLY: “Their brinkmanship regarding the debt ceiling and the deal Obama was prepared to agree to truly was pathetic.”

The only party guilty of brinksmanship is the Democrat party, who for 2 years spent us to our legal limit, only to blame Republicans for putting on the brakes. Only liberals would classify our debt as a matter of politics. It’s a serious problem requiring serious action.

KIMBERLY: “And then the tea party cheered the downgrade and resulting economic uncertainty.”

I’ve not witnessed one conservative happy with the credit downgrade or the economic uncertainty that’s existed since Obama took office. Democrats had full control for 2 years to avoid a credit downgrade and increase economic certainty, and they did the opposite. Now, they pay the price.

KIMBERLY: “Here’s Paul Ryan when a Republican was president talking about his support of a stimulative payroll tax cut: . . . I think we ought to have this income tax cut fast, deeper, retroactive . . .”

Conservatives have always supported limited taxation, and nothing has changed here. We simply favor fundamental, long-term reform over temporary, surface changes that just prolong our troubles. At the end of the day, I have little worry that Republicans will stand in the way of a tax cut extension.

Rather than focus on the necessary fundamental change we need, Democrats are more interested in playing political games. That’s all they really have left going into 2012.

“If you think you’re going to get to keep enough to retire on, you are sadly mistaken, Mary.”

Posted by: whatever | September 8, 2011, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm

What makes you assume I haven’t already done it?

Posted by: Kimberly | September 8, 2011, 2:39 pm 2:39 pm

Congress makes the laws. They can legalize confiscatory schemes that would otherwise be illegal if anyone in the private sector attempted it. I already stated that Social Security is worse than a Ponzi scheme because you can’t opt out of it. Your earnings are confiscated even if you don’t want to be part of the system. Of course, it has to work that way because current contributions are paid out to retired beneficiaries. In other words, it operates exactly like Madoff’s illegal Ponzi scheme. The difference is once the Madoff scheme was discovered, all new money stopped flowing in. If you attempt to withhold FICA taxes from the federal government, it’s a crime and you could end up in prison.

A large group of Social Security recipients receive lifetime benefits that far exceed their contributions. How are these excess benefits “earned” exactly?

Um, no it didn’t. 31 months into the job, the unemployment rate under Obama is 1.3% higher now than when he started

Posted by: Chuck | September 8, 2011, 10:03 am 10:03 am

There’s that sleazy cherry picking of the Republican right again – blaming all the hundreds of thousands of job losses that spilled out of the Bush economic collapse on Obama. The unemployment rate had been sky rocketing – and it continued in the first months of Obama’s presidency.

No wonder the majority of Americans don’t approve of the Republican party – you’re a bunch of weasels.

Before Obama walked through the doors, hundreds of thousands of jobs were being lost every month, month after month. This continued through the first months of his presidency before his policies began to take effect.

Unemployment had climbed rapidly from 4.8% in Feb of 2008 to 7.8% in January of 2009. It continued to climb rapidly each month until Obama’s policies began to take effect peaking at 10.1% in October of 2010.

Picking the unemployment figure from January 2009 is a weaselly move. You’re not worthy of being trusted, nor believed.

Kimberly,who pays for SS? It was started as an employee funded plan.At inception 8-10 workers paid in for every one who received benefits. Now it is 2-3. That is not sustainable; it is also exactly how a Ponzi scam is run. They fail when income can no longer cover outlays.Dispatching the messenger doesn’t change the facts.;without a realistic discussion of how to fund it Social Security will not be around for those currently paying in.

KIMBERLY: “Anonymous, anyone can see via video footage tea partiers . . .”

Actually, they can’t, Kimberly, as no one in the clip, found almost exclusively on extreme leftist websites, is cheering. They seemed agitated as the host announced how liberals are blaming the Tea Party for the downgrade. Any real conservative would be.

There is audio of, like, two people cheering in the background, but it’s really hard to say where that came from. Were the cheers from liberal plants often found at conservative gatherings? Were the cheers artificially inserted into the audio after the fact? It really means nothing.

Another day, another liberal scam exposed . . .

KIMBERLY: “. . . you think, when he says we ought to get rid of the FAA, 9/11 was the result of too much gov’t intervention, and all regulation should be handed over to the private sector?”

Yes, I believe the FAA, with their antiquated systems and sleeping air traffic control operators, could be handled better in the private sector.

9/11 was the result of Clinton’s negligence of our national security through the 90s.

While the private sector can self-regulate in many areas, I think the government is still required to create and enforce laws to make the market safe, fair, and free.

“Social Security is much like many other public and private pension systems that operate throughout the country, and the world.”

Posted by: Kimberly | September 8, 2011, 3:40 pm 3:40 pm

Social Security is NOTHING like any public or private pension system. There are very strict federal regulations and guidelines governing public and private pension systems and the investments they offer. If the trustees of those pension systems attempted to borrow pension funds for other company operations and promised retirees IOUs in return, they’d be prosecuted and imprisoned. When politicians do this with Social Security, it’s business as usual.

Tami K,is that the same Richard Clarke who just claimed that significant intelligence data was denied to the Bush White House?It seems that his tune has recently changed.

Obama’s chief of staff has announced that some of the cost of his ‘jobs bill’ will be paid by imposing higher taxes on wealthier Americans, while the remainder is covered by Congress finding additional billions in future cuts from the budget. – I.E.: SPEND NOW, PAY LATER. Same old Obama, same old failed policies. The money is borrowed now and added to our deficit, while the task of paying it back left to Congress, where the Democrats will ask for higher taxes instead of spending cuts. If new taxes aren’t passed, the Democrats won’t agree to any cuts, adding the entire cost of the bill to the deficit. If the tax increase does pass, it completely negates what little stimulus the legislation provides. The construction jobs can’t start until the projects break ground, at least TWO years from now, and all the jobs are temporary – once the money runs out, the workers will be laid off – just like last time. And the death spiral continues…

Good Grief. Trumpka is SITTING IN OBAMA’S private box during the speech.

“Picking the unemployment figure from January 2009 is a weaselly move.”

Posted by: Jeff | September 8, 2011, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm

Lighten up, Francis. You conveniently ignored the fact that the national labor force is also smaller now than it was in January 2009 even though our population grew by several million people. You also conveniently ignored the fact that our economy is currently stalling in Obama’s THIRD year.

“Picking the unemployment figure from January 2009 is a weaselly move.”

Posted by: Jeff | September 8, 2011, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm

Lighten up, Francis.

Posted by: Chuck | September 8, 2011, 4:50 pm 4:50 pm

There is no moral call to ‘lighten up’ on weaselly liars.

These rules were, shortly after their creation, expanded to regulate such communications in future counter-terrorism investigations. It set a procedure where various intelligence operations could not share information with each other.

Posted by: Don | September 8, 2011, 5:02 pm 5:02 pm

Sure thing Don. Prove it. You believe this stuff you’re cutting and pasting – show the proof.

Posted by: Dave | September 8, 2011, 5:20 pm 5:20 pm

Gorelick’s memo was declassified and posted online by the DOJ. Google “Instructions on Separation of Certain Foreign Counterintelligence and Criminal Investigations” and read it for yourself.

Posted by: skip | September 8, 2011, 5:33 pm 5:33 pm

It was discussed during the 9/11 Commission Hearings. Gorelick’s memo was declassified and posted online by the DOJ. Google “Instructions on Separation of Certain Foreign Counterintelligence and Criminal Investigations” and read it for yourself.

Well it will certainly take the dedicated exertions of generations of right-wing historical revisionists to try and whitewash all the failings of the Bush administration. Clinton on the other hand left office with the highest approval rating of any US president since WWII.

The Gorelick wall prevented anti-terror investigators from accessing Zacarias Moussaoui’s computer

Posted by: Don | September 8, 2011, 6:12 pm 6:12 pm

That is completely unsubstantiated. Provide even a speck of documentation that “these rules were, shortly after their creation, expanded to regulate such communications in future counter-terrorism investigations”. And just don’t refer in general to a document, provide the sections of that document that back your fraudulent claim.

Please, please stop our companies from sending our jobs out of the country.

Posted by: Pat | September 8, 2011, 6:51 pm 6:51 pm

Some American corporations are without a doubt going to start branches (and jobs) in China and India. Those two countries have the largest markets on the entire planet. Huge amounts of money to be made in each of those countries.

When politicians do this with Social Security, it’s business as usual.

Posted by: Mary | September 8, 2011, 4:11 pm 4:11 pm

Specific examples????

Social Security is much more like many other public and private pension systems that operate throughout the country, and the world than a Ponzi scheme— and my opinion on that is much more in keeping with mainstream thought.

It works like this: People pay a percentage of their earnings into the fund throughout their lifetime, with the promise of getting a consistent payment back when they retire. Millions of Americans rely on Social Security payments for expenses in retirement

Posted by: Kimberly | September 8, 2011, 7:48 pm 7:48 pm

Part of my job involves working with private pension assets and periodically reviewing ERISA rules and regs. It’s best you discuss topics you know something about before you embarrass yourself further.

Posted by: Don | September 8, 2011, 9:26 pm 9:26 pm

Big fail Don. You’re unable to cite the passage that proves “these rules were, shortly after their creation, expanded to regulate such communications in future counter-terrorism investigations”.

Would you like to try again, or just admit you can’t do it?

KIMBERLY: “Like, for example, youtube is an extreme leftist website???????”

The video may be hosted on Youtube, but it was posted and linked by extreme leftist websites like I said.

You’re just sore that I exposed your liberal smear on the Tea Party. Liberal plants and doctored videos are all apart of a normal Democrat campaign.

Anonymous, no worries, I’m not “sore” at all. I actually wish you had proved me incorrect as I find it very disturbing— just as I did when Michele Bachmann was pushing for default. I also wish your posts invalidated the negative view that most Americans have of the tea party and its empty rhetoric and scorched earth tactics. Unfortunately, to do so they would need some facts, data, research, logic and substance… more than regurgitated talking bird ideology, buzzwords and arguments that amount to ” I don’t like yyyyyooooouuuu libruls. ”

Wisconsin is dealing with a very heavyhanded, crony capitalist, union-busting, unpopular GOP governor. His opposition are normal, salt of the Earth Midwesterners experiencing severe buyer’s remorse. Just this week the Milwaukee Sentinel reports that an employee was fired for an email mocking the the state’s decision that DMV employees aren’t supposed to tell citizens about the availability of free photo identification to satisfy the state’s new Voter-ID law. I mean, honestly, voter suppression is alive and well in the Midwest, which I’ve always thought of our country’s heart.

One thing you may be correct about is the Republicans and the payroll tax cut extension: ““Republicans are not for allowing tax increases for anyone, we don’t believe in that,” Cantor said, adding that Obama’s payroll tax provision “will be part of the discussions going forward.”

We’ll see… I’m not sure they’ll be able to arise above their knee jerk opposition, hypocrisy and game playing, but I hope so.

You know what they say about wishing and hoping, of course.

Thank you President Obama! There are a lot of people who back you 100%. Stay strong! We all see what the republicans (the ‘no’ group) are doing to try to destroy this country just to make you look bad!!!!
They dont care how many familys go hungry, they dont care how many people are distroyed or die with no help from the republicans they voted into office. All the republicans and the teababbers want is to distroy this country.They cant even see that if this country is distroyed they will go down with it!!!
Why not do everything you can do to uphold,uplift and, fix our country, make us strong again – then go back to talking politics???
Why cant they see this???
President Obama made an historical speech last night; one of the best speeches ever made
by any president. Our President wants to help the country…all he has ever done under these horrible conditions is try to help the country with no help from the republicans( the ‘no’ group).
Now the no group thinks they have achieved their goal but they got another think comming!!

Because on election day, all the smart people who have watched them say ‘no’ to helping the country get back on its feet will say ‘NO’ back to the republicans and the teababbers.
Lets all get ready to sock it to the republicans and teababbers!!! I just cant wait!!!

In a word, NO.

Keynes is dead, and it’s high time we drive a stake through the heart of his failed economic theories, too. Fiscal stimulus, short-term incentives and temporary tax breaks, give-aways to friends and cronies – none of this is going to provide for economic growth that will actually create any jobs. Bashing (and taxing) job creators and significantly raising the uncertainties and costs of doing business, on the other hand, does KILL JOBS.

Mr. Obama – this is YOUR economy, including all that your regulation, Dodd Frank, Obamacare and anti-success class warfare talk hath wrought. You own it, sir. Good bye.

GALIA: “Actually you said it was found ‘almost exclusively’ on leftist websites. youtube is very mainstream.”

You are splitting hairs. When you do a Google search for ‘tea party cheers credit downgrade,’ the clip can be ‘found almost exclusively on extreme leftist websites.’ What video hosting site actually hosts the video content is irrelevant. Do you think Youtube endorses all of the videos on their site? Your argument is ridiculous.

Regardless, there is no evidence found on the video that anyone at the Tea Party event cheered anything. There’s audio of someone belting out the most over-zealous cheer one could likely muster and a clap or two, which could have easily been added to the video after the fact. No one visible on the video cheered, but several were visibly agitated — one man can even be seen shaking his head. These are the ingredients for a fraudulent smear video, not Tea Party treachery. You liberals are really reaching.

As I have said before and as was actually communicated in your smear video, conservatives are disgusted that Democrats spent us to our legal limit for 2 years — which led to our downgrade — only to blame the Tea Party and other conservative representatives elected last year for Democrat irresponsibility.

Another day, another liberal scam exposed. The reek of liberal desperation is delightful.

KIMBERLY: “Ponzi schemes involve fraud.”

The government doesn’t make their Ponzi scheme any more sustainable by admitting that it works just like any other Ponzi scheme and is just as unsustainable. Not to mention, Social Security is actually worse than a Ponzi scheme because we are all forced to contribute to it.

KIMBERLY: “It also hasn’t been a failure.”

If you consider less-and-less present-day workers paying for more-and-more present-day retirees and a system schedule to collapse without fundamental reform a success, you are living in denial. We need to move to proven-sustainable market-based retirement plans — that provide much better returns for the American people’s money — rather than the government’s unsustainable Ponzi schemes that bleed the people of yet more of their precious money.

KIMBERLY: “. . . social security and Ponzi schemes have nothing little, if anything in common.”

Do they have ‘little’ or ‘nothing’ in common? Just admit it — the comparisons are fair — they are basically the same thing.

Call it what you want. It’s unsustainable either way.

KIMBERLY: “There is nothing sinister or fraudelent about social security, and many millions of Americans have relied on their earned benefits during retirement.”

And, there’s nothing legitimate about a social program that cannot exist without continuously more taxes for continuously less benefit. Liberals acting like an inherently broken system can be fixed permanently with some ‘minor tweaks’ is where the fraud comes in. That’s just par for the course for liberals, though.

KIMBERLY: “Social Security is currently estimated to keep roughly 40 percent of all Americans age 65 or older out of poverty.”

Call our Social Security system what you want, Kimberly. It’s unsustainable either way.

Without endless ‘tweaking’ at higher-and-higher cost for less-and-less benefit, it won’t be helping anybody. On the other hand, people have been successfully relying on sustainable market-based solutions for the past 30 years — without the disadvantages that plague Social Security. The return on investment for a private retirement account is at least 3-6 times the return on investment for Social Security.

Again, the question is, why do liberals continue to insist we invest in our retirement at a loss? Sadly, I believe the answer lies in the giant government slush fund Social Security has become.

LETS HAVE A YARD SALE AT THE WHITE HOUSE I BET THAT 400 DOLLOR COFFEE POT WOULD FETCH SOMETHING AND ALL THOSE THROW AWAYS IN THE BASEMENT AT THE WHITE HOUSE I LOVE THAT SONG PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN BUT I WISH I WOULD HAVE NEVER GIVEN UP MY CITIZENSHIP IN GERMANY I’M SORRY I EVER WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO BECOME AN AMERICAN CITIZEN

It is too bad so many people are being led by the nose by Obama’s campaign people….Obama knows Americans are furious at his lies about using money to create jobs for Americans so he enjoys the spotlight on protesters in Chicago…NATO never once promised Americans jobs…who did…Barack Obama. But these protesters must not use their computers for research otherwise they would be surrounding Barack Obama not NATO…he is the source of the problem not NATO.