Documents Highlight Bush-Era Incident Pre-Dating ‘Fast and Furious’
EmailNewly surfaced emails reveal problems going back to 2007 with the ATF office in Phoenix and guns ”walking” across the U.S.-Mexico border.
The emails about the Bush-era problems were given to Congress by the Justice Department as part of the congressional investigation into the ATF’s botched Obama-era firearms trafficking case, dubbed “Fast and Furious.”
The documents show that the special agent in charge of the ATF’s Phoenix office, William Newell, was involved in a 2007 incident that resulted in guns slipping into Mexico and, later, part of Fast and Furious. Newell was the special agent in charge of the Phoenix office until earlier this year.
The incident arose on Sept. 27, 2007, when ATF agents were conducting surveillance on subjects under investigation for gun trafficking and they hoped to work with the Mexican government to interdict them. The emails’ existence was first reported by The Associated Press Friday night.
Confusion over the incident came to the attention of ATF headquarters from Carson Carroll, who was then the deputy assistant director for the Office of Field Operations.
“ATF agents observed this vehicle [carrying guns] commit to the border and reach the Mexican side until it could no longer be seen,” Carroll wrote in a Sept. 28, 2007 email. “We, the ATF … did not get a response from the Mexican side until 20 minutes later, who then informed us that they did not see the vehicle cross. For the first time we are working hand in hand with the GOM [Government of Mexico] and providing them with what they want and this is what we get!”
The following day, ATF Acting Director for Field Operation William Hoover was demanding information on the strategy.
“Have we discussed the strategy with the U.S. Attorney’s Office re letting the guns walk? Do we have this approval in writing? Have we discussed and thought thru the consequences of same?” Hoover wrote to Newell and Carroll. “Are we tracking south of the border? Same re U.S. Attorney’s Office. Did we find out why they missed the hand-off of the vehicle? What are the expected outcomes?
“I do not want any firearms to go south until further notice,” Hoover wrote on Oct 5. “I expect a full briefing paper on my desk Tuesday morning from SAC Newell with every question answered.”
On Oct. 6, 2007, Newell wrote in an email, “I’m so frustrated with this whole mess I’m shutting the case down and any further attempts to do something similar. We’re done trying to pursue new and innovative initiatives – it’s not worth the hassle.”
Newell testified earlier this year about his role in Fast and Furious and acknowledged mistakes.
ATF officials did not respond Friday night to a request for comment about the new documents.
However, a spokesman for Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., a prominent Republican involved in the Fast and Furious probe, said this earlier case appeared different than the Obama-era program.
“In contrast to Operation Fast and Furious, where Mexican authorities were deliberately kept in the dark, this operation was conducted in coordination with Mexican authorities and when supervisors discovered problems that resulted in the loss of a dozen weapons they moved to shut down the effort,” Issa communications director Frederick Hill said. “The committee continues to press the Justice Department for information about this and other operations.”
ABC News’ John Parkinson contributed to this report.
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“…was involved in a 2007 incident that resulted in guns slipping into Mexico…”
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So in 2007 guns “slipped” into Mexico (meaning they did not intend for this to happen) whereas in oBama and Holder’s Fast and Furious program guns where “shipped” into Mexico. Where are the reports from ATF agents furious because the guns slipped past their tracking mechanisms……here is a hint… they don’t exist because they did not want the guns to be intercepted….they meant for them to get into Mexico all along.
Posted by: Michelle Shu Jas | October 14, 2011, 11:22 pm 11:22 pm
“The emails about the Bush-era problems were given to Congress by the Justice Department as part of the congressional investigation into the ATF’s botched Obama-era firearms trafficking case, dubbed “Fast and Furious.”
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Emails given to Congress by the Justice Department about Bush-era problems…. well who would have expected this from the stand-up “Justice” Department run by the corrupt Holder and oBama. Wonder if those emails came from a Kinko’s in Abilene…. Mary Mapes and Dan Rather advise ABC “News”… courage!
Posted by: Michelle Shu Jas | October 14, 2011, 11:41 pm 11:41 pm
No excuse. Circumstances were very different.
No blame Bush, this time…….it doesn’t wash, at all.
Obama’s Administration was doing things they absolutely let get totally out of control……like air traffic control, like loans to solar, and like spending in general. They have had no proper oversight, of much of anything.
Posted by: Rick McDaniel | October 14, 2011, 11:48 pm 11:48 pm
Holder and the media still pointing the finger at Bush reminds me of the fourth grade kid who got caught writing on lockers or smoking in the boy’s room. The first thing they want to do is point the finger at someone else in an effort to take attention away from themselves.
Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. If George W Bush had destroyed half of the northern hemisphere it wouldn’t make Fast and Furious any better. It doesn’t matter what anyone else did, what the Obama people did was wrong.
Posted by: oonogil | October 15, 2011, 12:54 am 12:54 am
This is the second gun ‘walking’ program from the Bush era. The first was “Operation Wide Receiver” out of Tuscon. Now this out of Phoenix. It will be interesting to watch all of the facts come out about all of the programs walking guns into Mexico.
Posted by: Clark | October 15, 2011, 1:44 am 1:44 am
To say that the Bush programs were the same as “Fast and Furious is ludicrous. The Bush progams were cooperating with the Mexican government. The agents did follow the guns up to the border where the Mexicans were supposed to take over. Mexico is the one that lost the guns. In the “Fast and Furious” opeation agents were told to suspend surveilence and the guns were lost. “Fast and Furious” was not working with the Mexican government. In fact the Mexican government didn’t even know about the program. The Department of Justice turned over this information to try an divert blame from the Obama administration.
Posted by: model67a | October 15, 2011, 5:28 am 5:28 am
if I had not read about this in other “worthy” journals, I would not believe it. ABC news getting it right! Now THAT is news. How about a real investigation into WHY? Obama just wanted it to look like the US has too many guns etc. They were trying to get at the 2nd Amendment again.
Personally, I would like to see heads roll (figurtively?) Starting with AG.
Posted by: Mark Mason | October 15, 2011, 6:42 am 6:42 am
What a lousy situation. So, the ATF under Obama continues a Bush era program…. and suddenly it’s a scandal. There are records of Issa being briefed on the program long before he found it objectionable. But, hey, Fox News is pushing the scandal…. and they will never let the facts get in the way of their agenda… so Bush and Issa get a pass. And they get to call Obama Hitler and Stalin, accuse him of doing too much and not doing enough, of being pro-Wall Street and being a communist, of being too elite and being too low class… Too bad. I used to be a proud Republican….
Posted by: blip | October 15, 2011, 7:17 am 7:17 am
Sorry, ABC and company:
“Bush did it!” ain’t gonna cut it this time!
Dems have been working for decades to circumvent and eventually destroy the Second Amendment through steps large and small. The objective of ‘Gunwalker’ and ‘Fast & Furious’ is to shut down Gun Stores and Gun Shows through extra-legal means.
Ironically, the ends to this objective too closely resembles the disgustingly poor light cast upon the incompetent, Rambo wannabes of the ATF priior to and during Waco. And now!
Posted by: Jack Deth | October 15, 2011, 11:39 am 11:39 am
“On Oct. 6, 2007, Newell wrote in an email, “I’m so frustrated with this whole mess I’m shutting the case down and any further attempts to do something similar. We’re done trying to pursue new and innovative initiatives – it’s not worth the hassle.””
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Hmmmm…. so the program was such a failure in 2007 that Newell shut it down. WHO in the oBama/Holder administration had him re-start a program that was shown to have been a failure? Looks like ABC “News” does not care to find….let someone else do the digging to connect the dots.
Posted by: Michelle Shu Jas | October 15, 2011, 12:14 pm 12:14 pm
So I guess since Bush did it it’s ok then? Well Mr. Holder you no longer have any responsibility because I’m sure President Bush actually set this whole thing up. Phew, good thing you have that old scapegoat to use. That was close!!
Posted by: Todd | October 15, 2011, 12:56 pm 12:56 pm
To say that the Bush programs were the same as “Fast and Furious is ludicrous. The Bush progams were cooperating with the Mexican government. The agents did follow the guns up to the border where the Mexicans were supposed to take over.
______________________________
That’s not what’s coming out about Bush’s “Operation Wide Receiver”. There have been at least two Bush era operation reported, one out of Tuscon (Wide Receiver) and one out of Phoenix.
Posted by: James | October 15, 2011, 2:50 pm 2:50 pm
have you ever seen a more incompetent bunch of media alleged smart people in your life?cant wait to send my kid to an ivy league school. their diplomas are worth toilet paper. holder appears to be lying under oath. in san fran today the liberal paper(chronicle) actually ties obama to the solyndra loan and a 500,000 contribution back to his campaign.more hope change and transparency. this is why the prez sits back over the protests. his only hope for deflection is anarchy. the paper also doesnt believe the iran story either.it smells of yellow cake from nigeria. change the focus to protest unrest and villify iran and start a war. thats how we got out of the great depression.
Posted by: catman | October 15, 2011, 2:51 pm 2:51 pm
How can people read this article and ignore this practice is not new to the ATF. Its not about pointing fingers at the Bush administration, its about showing the director of the Phoenix office has authorized programs like this in the past. Reading the emails you can deduce the ATF Acting Director of Field Operations William Hoover did not give authorization to Newell in 2007 for the operation that resulted in guns walking and learned about it from Carson Carroll after the fact. Its obvious the director of the Phoenix office William Newell has the authority to approve how operations are to be conducted. Issa’s point that the Mexican Government was not involved in this operation doesn’t show negligence on the AGs part. All it shows is Newell decided to conduct this operation without the Mexican Government.
Posted by: focusonjobs1 | October 15, 2011, 2:58 pm 2:58 pm
FOCUSONJOBS1: “How can people read this article and ignore this practice is not new to the ATF.”
We can understand an incident involving guns crossing the border failed under the Bush administration and was shut down due to this failure. Why would Obama expand that failure and the risk to human life exponentially? And, the Bush era incident never resulted in the killing of any Americans as Obama’s Fast and Furious did. Not to mention the countless deaths south of the border.
FOCUSONJOBS1: “Its obvious the director of the Phoenix office William Newell has the authority to approve how operations are to be conducted.”
Yes, authority given to him by the president, as he was in regular contact with the White House about the program.
No amount of liberal spin and lies will erase Obama’s betrayal of his duty to protect the American people. Again, politics is more important to Obama than his responsibility to the people. Obama and his administration will be held responsible for this.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2011, 5:44 pm 5:44 pm
FOCUSONJOBS1: “Its obvious the director of the Phoenix office William Newell has the authority to approve how operations are to be conducted.”
Yes, authority given to him by the president, as he was in regular contact with the White House about the program.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2011, 5:44 pm 5:44 pm
No amount of supposition (imagination) about what happened from the right wing will substitute for facts and the truth.
Posted by: Jamie | October 15, 2011, 7:38 pm 7:38 pm
JAMIE: “No amount of supposition (imagination) about what happened from the right wing will substitute for facts and the truth.”
And, no amount of left-wing lies will erase the fact that Obama expanded exponentially an already failed and canceled policy that resulted in the death of at least one American. No supposition involved, only the cold hard facts. Obama should be impeached for his irresponsible and deadly program!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2011, 8:40 pm 8:40 pm
POSTED BY: ANONYMOUS | OCTOBER 15, 2011, 8:40 PM 8:40 PM
You have no idea of the facts behind what President Obama did or didn’t do regarding this program. Quite pretending you do – you don’t.
Posted by: Jamie | October 15, 2011, 8:51 pm 8:51 pm
JAMIE: “You have no idea of the facts behind what President Obama did or didn’t do regarding this program. Quite pretending you do – you don’t.”
There is public evidence of extensive communication between the White House and the local ATF office that operated Obama’s Fast and Furious program. A similar incident occurred under Bush and was canceled due to the great risk to human life. The Obama administration then authorized and greatly expanded this risky, failed idea to create Fast and Furious. You can deny all you want, but the sad facts speak for themselves. Obama and his administration will pay for their irresponsible and deadly program that killed at least one American and countless south of the border!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2011, 9:24 pm 9:24 pm
POSTED BY: ANONYMOUS | OCTOBER 15, 2011, 9:55 PM 9:55 PM
As I said, you know nothing about what President Obama did or didn’t do regarding this program. So your previous statements to that effect are a bunch of hogwash. Plain and simple.
Posted by: Jamie | October 15, 2011, 10:03 pm 10:03 pm
JAMIE: “As I said, you know nothing about what President Obama did or didn’t do regarding this program.”
So, you deny the public evidence of extensive communication between the White House and the local ATF office that operated Obama’s deadly Fast and Furious program that killed at least one American and countless south of the border?
Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2011, 10:23 pm 10:23 pm
POSTED BY: ANONYMOUS | OCTOBER 15, 2011, 10:23 PM 10:23 PM
Perhaps comprehension skills aren’t your best strength. What I said quite clearly is you know nothing about what President Obama did or didn’t do regarding this program. So your previous statements to that effect are a bunch of hogwash. Plain and simple.
Quote whatever emails you like to prove me wrong. I’m not frightened in the least. Go ahead and post the proof to the contrary. Bring them on . .. .
Posted by: Jamie | October 15, 2011, 10:35 pm 10:35 pm
JAMIE: “Quote whatever emails you like to prove me wrong.”
I didn’t mention emails. Thanks for admitting your knowledge of the extensive communication between the White House and the local ATF office that operated Obama’s deadly Fast and Furious program that killed at least one American and countless south of the border. You weren’t fooling anyone anyway. Busted!
JAMIE: “I’m not frightened in the least.”
Right, because you’ll just deny it anyway.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 15, 2011, 10:53 pm 10:53 pm
Quote whatever emails you like to prove me wrong. I’m not frightened in the least. Go ahead and post the proof to the contrary. Bring them on . .. .
POSTED BY: JAMIE | OCTOBER 15, 2011, 10:35 PM 10:35 PM
Nothing yet Anonymous?
Posted by: Jamie | October 16, 2011, 1:28 am 1:28 am
JAMIE: “Nothing yet Anonymous?”
Do a simple web search for:
“New Fast and Furious docs released by White House”
There is public evidence of extensive communication between the White House and the local ATF office that operated Obama’s Fast and Furious program. Obama and his administration will pay for their irresponsible and deadly program that killed at least one American and countless south of the border!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2011, 1:53 am 1:53 am
POSTED BY: ANONYMOUS | OCTOBER 16, 2011, 1:53 AM 1:53 AM
It’s very clear now you know nothing about what President Obama did or didn’t do regarding this program. So your previous statements to that effect are a bunch of hogwash. Plain and simple.
But seriously, Quote whatever emails you like to prove me wrong. I’m not frightened in the least. Go ahead and post the proof to the contrary. Bring them on . .. .
Sad to see you just can’t do it . .. as I suspected.
Posted by: jamie | October 16, 2011, 2:28 am 2:28 am
JAMIE: “I’m not frightened in the least.”
ANONYMOUS: “Right, because you’ll just deny it anyway.”
Just as predicted.
Do a simple web search:
“New Fast and Furious docs released by White House”
There is public evidence of extensive communication between the White House and the local ATF office that operated Obama’s Fast and Furious program. Obama and his administration will pay for their irresponsible and deadly program that killed at least one American and countless south of the border!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2011, 2:38 am 2:38 am
POSTED BY: ANONYMOUS | OCTOBER 16, 2011, 2:38 AM 2:38 AM
Again, you couldn’t provide any emails or other communications supporting your accusations against the President.
Posted by: jamie | October 16, 2011, 3:09 am 3:09 am
@JAMIE – Do the web search and you’ll find the emails. Your petty little games aren’t fooling anyone.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2011, 3:14 am 3:14 am
POSTED BY: ANONYMOUS | OCTOBER 16, 2011, 3:14 AM 3:14 AM
Still not a quote or text from any communication to support your accusations against the President? “Go google” just doesn’t cut it as any kind of evidence, not in any fair person’s mind. You apparently have nothing.
Posted by: Jame | October 16, 2011, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm
JAMIE: “‘Go google’ just doesn’t cut it as any kind of evidence . . .”
Your inability to do a simple web search is your failure, not mine. It actually explains a lot.
Do a web search:
“New Fast and Furious docs released by White House”
There is public evidence of extensive communication between the White House and the local ATF office that operated Obama’s Fast and Furious program. Obama and his administration will pay for their irresponsible and deadly program that killed at least one American and countless south of the border!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2011, 2:35 pm 2:35 pm
POSTED BY: ANONYMOUS | OCTOBER 16, 2011, 2:35 PM 2:35 PM
Sorry anonymous, ‘go google’ doesn’t cut it as any kind of evidence for your accusations against the President.
You have no idea of the facts behind what President Obama did or didn’t do regarding this program. Quite pretending you do – you don’t.
Your type of nonsense is typical of the Republican right – hurl insults, name calling and false accusations at the Democrats and the President – and then in the end have absolutely nothing to back it up.
If you have some quotes from emails or any communications backing up your accusations against the President, post them. Otherwise, I think we know who is playing the ‘petty games’. You discredit Republicans.
Posted by: Jamie | October 16, 2011, 2:56 pm 2:56 pm
JAIME: “‘go google’ doesn’t cut it as any kind of evidence . . .”
Your inability to do a simple web search is your failure, not mine. It actually explains a lot. The only people you are fooling are those who are too lazy to do the web search, which isn’t anyone important, as they won’t be motivated to vote either. Your efforts are hollow and fruitless.
For those interested in the truth, search for the following to find the information I’ve referenced:
“New Fast and Furious docs released by White House”
There is public evidence of extensive communication between the White House and the local ATF office that operated Obama’s Fast and Furious program. Obama and his administration will pay for their irresponsible and deadly program that killed at least one American and countless south of the border!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2011, 3:14 pm 3:14 pm
POSTED BY: ANONYMOUS | OCTOBER 16, 2011, 3:14 PM 3:14 PM
Sorry anonymous, you fail again to provide any proof of your accusations against the President.
If you have some quotes from emails or any communications backing up your accusations against the President, post them. Otherwise, I think we know who is playing the ‘petty games’.
Posted by: Jamie | October 16, 2011, 3:49 pm 3:49 pm
JAMIE: “Sorry anonymous, you fail again to provide any proof of your accusations against the President.”
Your failure to do the required web search is yours and yours alone.
For those interested in the truth, search for the following to find the information I’ve referenced:
“New Fast and Furious docs released by White House”
There is public evidence of extensive communication between the White House and the local ATF office that operated Obama’s Fast and Furious program. Obama and his administration will pay for their irresponsible and deadly program that killed at least one American and countless south of the border!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2011, 4:15 pm 4:15 pm
POSTED BY: ANONYMOUS | OCTOBER 16, 2011, 4:15 PM 4:15 PM
Gee whiz. Not a single quote from an email or a communication to back up your accusations against the President?
It’ your argument pal, and if you can’t find a single quote to champion your cause and back up your accusations against the President, you’ve lost out.
Sorry, ‘go google’ is not evidence of anything, nor is it any kind of fact. Until you come up with real quotes from any communications that supports your accusations against the President, you have nothing going at all.
Posted by: Jamie | October 16, 2011, 4:26 pm 4:26 pm
JAMIE: “Sorry, ‘go google’ is not evidence of anything, nor is it any kind of fact.”
Right, it’s what you find after the web search that you are running scared from.
For those interested in the truth, search for the following to find the information I’ve referenced:
“New Fast and Furious docs released by White House”
There is public evidence of extensive communication between the White House and the local ATF office that operated Obama’s Fast and Furious program. Obama and his administration will pay for their irresponsible and deadly program that killed at least one American and countless south of the border!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 16, 2011, 4:34 pm 4:34 pm
Let’s see, there were documents showing that the Bush administration stupidly allowed some guns to “walk” into Mexico and so the NoBo administration takes over and double downs on Stupid.
Sounds right.
Posted by: Noz | October 17, 2011, 9:40 am 9:40 am
must check and get big save suprisely
Posted by: Snoffchasidy | December 25, 2011, 3:07 pm 3:07 pm