Groups Suggest Elena Kagan, Clarence Thomas Should Be Recused from Health Law Challenge

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ABC News’ Ariane de Vogue reports:
Now that the Supreme Court has taken up a challenge to the health care law, advocacy groups on both sides of the ideological spectrum are hoping to get a justice –with potentially opposing views– dismissed from hearing the challenge.
The focus for now from conservative groups is Justice Elena Kagan, while left-leaning groups turn their attention to Justice Clarence Thomas.
The absence of one justice on a close case could change the ultimate outcome.
But at this point the possibility of either Thomas or Kagan stepping off the case, with the information that is publicly available, is remote. Recusal issues are largely left up to the individual Justice and if one had decided not to participate in the closed door deliberations regarding the case it would have been reflected in the order list released from the court last Monday.
“It’s pretty clear they have both decided to sit,” said Monroe Freedman, a Professor at Hofstra Law School.
Carrie Severino, a former clerk of Justice Thomas and the chief counsel of the conservative group Judicial Crisis Network called for the recusal of Kagan citing her previous job as Solicitor General of the Obama administration. Severino said Kagan’s office was “responsible for formulating the administration’s defense” of the health care law.
“To use a sports analogy, would anyone trust the outcome of a close game where the referee had been a coach for one of the teams earlier in the game?” asked Severino in a statement.
During her confirmation hearings for the Court, Kagan told Congress she had never offered any views or comment regarding the merits of a challenge to the health care law brought by lawyers for Florida and several other States who believe the law is unconstitutional. She recalled attending “at least one meeting when the existence of the health care litigation was briefly mentioned,” but she added, “none where any substantive discussion of the litigation occurred.”
Kagan also set out her policy for recusal: ” I would recuse myself from any case in which I played a substantial role” she told senators in her written testimony. “This category would include cases in which I approved or denied a recommendation for action in the lower courts and cases in which I reviewed a draft pleading or participated in formulating the government’s litigating position.”
Another advocacy group, Judicial Watch has released a series of e-mails it obtained from the Department of Justice through litigation between Kagan while she was the Solicitor General and some of her colleagues at the Department of Justice. The emails reflect that she kept up with the health care debate in general terms, and that she was aware that questions regarding her recusal from health care litigation needed to be coordinated.
In a statement the Department of Justice said the documents do nothing to contradict Kagan’s congressional testimony.
“During her tenure, former Solicitor General Elena Kagan did not play any substantive role in litigation challenging health care reform legislation, and the documents that have been released reflect that,” according to the statement.
Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch has not called for Kagan to be recused from the case but he said the emails show a “greater involvement by the Solicitor General’s office in Obama care legislation than had been understood at the time of her confirmation. ”
In one she told her then-colleague Larry Tribe on March 21, 2010– the day the House of Representatives passed the Affordable Care Act–, “I hear they have the votes Larry!! Simply amazing.”
Kagan was responding to an email from Tribe with the subject line of “fingers and toes crossed today.”
Freedman said that even if one takes the email not as a statement of fact, but an approval of legislation, “that is not enough to justify her recusal.” “She did not express any opinion on the constitutionality of the statute,” he said. “In addition she and others have denied that she participated in any way in any litigation or strategy sessions. If she did , there is no question she must recuse herself.”
The emails reflect that Kagan was aware that the issue would draw interest from the press in the early days after her nomination to the Court. Seven days after the announcement of her nomination , Tracy Schmaler a press officer at the Department of Justice, emailed Neal Katyal, who was then Kagan’s top deputy. Schmaler asked if Kagan had been involved in the preparations for health care litigation. Katyal emailed back a minute later.
“No she never has been involved in any of it. I’ve run it for the Office, and have never discussed the issues with her one bit.”
Katyal then forwarded the email to Kagan, adding, “This is what I told Tracy about health care.” Kagan responded to both Katyal and Schmaler.
“This needs to be coordinated. Tracy, you should not say anything about this before talking to me.”
On Tuesday night Senator Jeff Sessions (R-Alabama) a senior member of the Senate Judiciary Committee sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder saying that he was “deeply disturbed” that the emails hadn’t been provided to the Senate Judiciary Committee during Kagan’s confirmation hearing.
Although Holder has recently testified that Kagan was “physically, literally ” moved out of the room “whenever a conversation came up about health care freeform legislation”, Sessions asked for more details on her role.
Stephen Gillers, a professor of law at New York University School of Law who is an expert on legal ethics, thinks the emails do not reflect that Kagan should recuse herself. But he is sympathetic to Sessions request for the documents.
“It makes the Department of Justice look bad to wait so long and to release them episodically.. It creates suspicion.” he said.
While conservative groups have suggested a conflict for Kagan, liberal groups and some Democratic congressmen see the same for Justice Clarence Thomas.
Last February 74 congressmen lead by the now-disgraced Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-NY, wrote Thomas a letter asking him to recuse himself from hearing cases on the health care reform law because of his wife’s ties to a group opposing the health care law. The liberal group People for the American Way posted a letter on its website arguing “Justice Thomas’ wife Ginni has earned hundreds of thousands of dollars working for and leading groups that have repealing health care reform as one of their chief goals. Considering challenges to the health care law are expected to reach the Supreme Court, that could present a major conflict of interest.”
Gillers –who points out that Ginni Thomas was involved in conservative causes long before she met her husband– does not believe that Thomas has any reason to recuse himself either. “I don’t think there is any basis for Thomas to recuse. My view is judge or a justice is not burdened by the political activity of a spouse., ” he said. “Ginni Thomas has a first amendment right to proclaim her views as vociferously as she wants. We have to trust Justice Thomas to come to his own conclusions.”
Freedman thinks the Thomas case is a closer call.
“Thomas should recuse himself because his wife is a lobbyist for groups that are opposed to the health care law. She has brought in a lot of money in family income opposing the health care law, ” he said. “Thomas has a financial family interest in the success of the opposition to health care. ”
Supreme Court Justices are governed by two sets of ethics rules.
A federal statute, applicable to Supreme Court , says that a judge should “disqualify” himself [or herself] in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned. Also, the Judicial Code of Conduct –a set of ethical principles adopted by the Judicial Conference – uses a similar standard.
But the Code of Conduct is only applicable to lower court judges, although Supreme Court justices often follow the guidelines. Some believe the Code should apply to the Supreme Court as well.
Justices Stephen Breyer and Anthony Kennedy spoke about the issue last April in front of the House Appropriations Subcommittee in a hearing to review the court’s budget.
Kennedy said he did not feel the code should be binding.
“There’s a legal or constitutional dissonance or problem,” he said, noting that the rules are made by district and appellate court justices. “We would find it structurally unprecedented for district or appellate court judges to make rules that the Supreme Court would follow.”
Breyer said the rules should be diffferent at the Supreme Court level because the court itself is different.
“We do follow the rules and they do apply,” but he added that, unlike in the lower courts, if a Supreme Court justice recuses himself from a case his vote cannot be replaced. “It’s a different thing … being a Supreme Court justice,” he said.
“You have a duty to sit because there is no one to replace me if I take myself out, and that could sometimes change the result.” Kennedy added that if the court deadlocks 4-4 on an issue, the lower court ruling stands. “If we have one of us recused from a case and we come out 4-4,” he said, “we’ve wasted everyone’s time.”

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It sounds like Kagan’s influence on the health care law was non-existent.
Justice Clarence Thomas has seen his family’s wealth increase by his wife fighting and getting paid handsomely to fight, the health care reform bill.
Thomas should recuse himself, but I won’t hold my breath. He failed to claim his wife’s compensation on his Supreme Court annual financial disclosure form for 5 years so maybe her income just slips his mind! In those years she earned over $650,000 from a conservative think tank group.
Posted by: Librarian53 | November 16, 2011, 1:09 pm 1:09 pm
I am more concerned that Scalia and Thomas went to a dinner held by the law firm that will argue before the Court against the bill on the same day they agreed to hear the case!!
Posted by: pksk531 | November 16, 2011, 2:31 pm 2:31 pm
Obama thinks it’ll prevail because only 26 out of 57 states are challenging it.
Posted by: newcountryman | November 16, 2011, 3:28 pm 3:28 pm
Clarence Thomas is one of the MAIN reasons why I no longer have any faith in the SC!! Too bad because that was the ONLY place that I THOUGH would NEVER sell itself out and now it HAS!!! Any big corporations out there want to buy the American Government???? How much ya got?
Posted by: demNme5 | November 16, 2011, 3:46 pm 3:46 pm
When Obama slams some of them at his congressional speach what would you expect in return. Obama sets NO LAWs on the land and Obama does not create new LAWs on the land. Only dictators do that.
Posted by: Jim Rod | November 16, 2011, 4:14 pm 4:14 pm
Obama was correct and the SC is WRONG for that decision. They have thrown away their integrity!!!
Posted by: demNme5 | November 16, 2011, 4:32 pm 4:32 pm
If Kagen doesn’t recuse the whole court needs to go, that would render them useless.
Posted by: ray | November 16, 2011, 4:45 pm 4:45 pm
Ray, they ARE useless! They got that way about 1.5 years ago.
Posted by: demNme5 | November 16, 2011, 4:59 pm 4:59 pm
I believe Scalia and Thomas should both be removed….too many meetings with those who want to kill this bill. Also Mr. Thomas gets income from his wife’s job and she is a lobbyist for a corporation that has been working for the last few years to kill it….this makes him a partner as long as he take the money from her salary A point he conveniently forgot to mention ….her salary. She has been on t.v. and has given speeches all over the country for Americans for Prosperity…a well known tea party group which has worked against this bill from day one.. The supreme court has made some terrible decisions which has already affected the voting in this country. Money can come from anywhere in any amounts and it seems to me that those with the most money have the most influence. It was better when it was controlled and we knew from whence it came and how much. Now, through the Chamber of Commerce…much money comes in and from other countries and this should never be. It has been mentioned that Mr. Donohue..head of the Chamber has told foreign countries not to worry about your jobs…when the republicans get back in…your jobs will be safe. He has made no statement about the jobs here in America. When money controls who wins elections….something is wrong here and the little guy once again gets hurt. President Obama was right in criticizing this decision by the supreme court. In Wisconsin..the Koch Brothers practically bought the election for Scott Walker and has poured much money into helping him keep his job. You see, the people don’t want him and in a fair election…this would never happen. In Ohio…the people again stood up and defeated Mr. Casic’s bill which killed arbitration. People were told before the election that the republicans would create jobs…they have been in for almost two years and no jobs have been created as yet but much has been taken away from people and many jobs have been lost …the opposite of what they promised….that is why there is this great outcry from the public and about time.
Posted by: Talmag | November 16, 2011, 6:00 pm 6:00 pm
librarian, actually, a good trial lawyer could make quite a bit out of her “simply amazing” response to the “fingers and toes crossed” in hopes of the bill’s passage. and there’s no question that the $$ is a problem for thomas. but the left’s argument that thomas’ wife had “ties” to a group opposed to obamacare and that she earned hundreds of thousands from it. kagan was a lawyer for the administration that lobbied for and signed the bill into law. and considering the solicitor general probably makes about a quarter million a year, it’s a bit ridiculous to act as if she received no remuneration while having “ties” to a group that supported obamacare. in reality, it’s either that both should recuse themselves, or neither should recuse themselves. so, in essence, it makes no difference whatsoever. it would either be a 5-4 split or 4-3 split. the idea that either side is trying to stack the court one way or the other is pitiful, and it essentially makes any decision illegitimate in the public mind if there is a 1 vote split on what may be one of the single most important cases in the history of the court. this case is as big as marbury, gibbons, scott, brown, roe, or any of them. this may be the seminal case in defining the limits of republican government. it’s monumental…and trying to stack the deck and create a built-in excuse to call the decision a fraud is horrendous. let the 9 decide and live with it.
Posted by: grumpopolis | November 16, 2011, 7:33 pm 7:33 pm
POSTED BY: TALMAG | NOVEMBER 16, 2011, 6:00 PM +++++I guess you missed the fact that Obamacare got stomped by the voting public in Ohio….The unions dumped a pile of money in Ohio to get the results they wanted on the collective bargaining issue…So your whole point about “the people” is full of crap…
Posted by: allen | November 16, 2011, 8:25 pm 8:25 pm
grumpopolis, can you really compare Thomas’ wife bringing home lots of money for railing against the healthcare law with Kagan working for a firm that among all its clients, was lobbying for the bill. Kagan was not working on it, her time wasn’t billed to that job, so she didn’t benefit from it. Thomas, on the other hand, directly benefited from his wife’s income.
Thomas should do the right thing and recuse, as he materially benefited.
Posted by: Librarian53 | November 16, 2011, 10:13 pm 10:13 pm
librarian, yes. and conflict of interest is not limited to monetary or material benefit. where you get that from i have no idea. the general rule per the rules of professional responsibility is that the conflict runs to every lawyer in the firm, regardless of their involvement in a case. as i said before, the entire issue on the left and the right is woefully pitiful. each side is trying to stack the deck on the front end and build in an excuse for loss on the back end. and they’re basically setting the groundwork to render the court a farce in the public’s mind. our political system has degenerated into a complete sham and the shamwow politicians are attempting to throw the judiciary into the circus ring. moreover, does anyone think thomas’ position regarding this issue would have been any different had his wife not lobbied against the law. like thomas was some kind of moderate to begin with? like he was going to vote in favor of the law until the checks rolled in? it’s absurd. how about saying roberts should recuse himself because we know he’s a rock ribbed conservative who will never vote for the law. and ginsburg should recuse herself because she’s a liberal who would never vote against it. the whole issue is a red herring, smacks of desparation, and makes those trumpeting this stuff look like fools. let the 9 decide.
Posted by: grumpopolis | November 16, 2011, 10:45 pm 10:45 pm
A couple of conservatives on this court seem to no longer concern themselves with if they look like they’re bought off.
Posted by: lexingtonlady | November 16, 2011, 11:52 pm 11:52 pm
Then there’s the fact Thomas deliberately broke the disclosure law and my country doesn’t do a thing about it.
Posted by: lexingtonlady | November 16, 2011, 11:55 pm 11:55 pm
Unlike a lot of people, apparently, I honestly believe that Justice Kagan is a person of character and principle, and will have no choice but to recuse herself from this case.
I like and admire Justice Kagan very much, but it really bothered me to see her nominated to the Supreme Court for this very reason. She helped write this law, and discussed potential legal attacks and defenses for it…and there’s simply no way around that. After all, that was her job. And without her, the best possible outcome is probably a 4-4 split…and that would enable the 11th Circuit decision (against the mandate) to stand.
I wish that President Obama had thought this through, and had either nominated another justice to the Supreme Court, or else had used Justice Kagan in another position in the White House.
No matter how much pressure we may exert on her, I don’t think we’ll be able to push Justice Kagan into NOT doing something that her own professional integrity and honesty demands.
Posted by: Lakeisha Jackson | November 17, 2011, 12:55 am 12:55 am
Its all over but the crying! It will be 5 to 4 to toss out the mandate and then voters will toss out Obama! There will be dancing in the streets when he’s gone!!!
Posted by: RadioMan77 | November 17, 2011, 2:00 am 2:00 am
LOL!… I’m actually hoping that the Supreme Court overturns the health insurance reform law. I sort of like how our nation’s health insurance law was working before… rising at 4 times the rate of inflation and 5 times faster than wage growth…and republicans doing absolutely NOTHING about the issue. Yep, those were the days…LOL!… my insurance business was doing awesome!
Posted by: Republicans Remind Me of Forrest Gump | November 17, 2011, 6:36 am 6:36 am
POSTED BY: REPUBLICANS REMIND ME OF FORREST GUMP | NOVEMBER 17, 2011, 6:36 AM —-And he is back with the blah, blah, blah, same old crap……
Posted by: yankee | November 17, 2011, 8:54 am 8:54 am
Republicans are working (NOT) but will IF they win in 2012. Then we can count on them to finalize their work on destroying the USA! The VERY RICH and the VERY POOR, just like all the other third world countries they seem to envy. However, if President Obama WINS, then these same DO-NOTHING Republicans will absolutely have no choice but to actually do what is expected of them in Congress because they can’t possibly stand around and do nothing as they have this past 3 years. I think the “People” of the USA ought to stand up and DEMAND that they get off their butts and do their jobs. Notice I didn’t say EARN their money because they have NEVER done that!
Posted by: demNme5 | November 17, 2011, 10:37 am 10:37 am
Yankee, why can’t you factually address what ‘Republican Remind Me of Forrest Gump’ said instead of insulting? Surely, you must have a good reasons, hopefully facts that make you disagree.
So many Republican leaders ignored the cruelties of the insurance industry, ignored that they were pricing millions more each year out of the market. That their premiums were taking too big a bite out of individuals and businesses bottom lines, to the detriment of our economy. And further harm was revealed by a Harvard study that showed that 45,000 Americans died each year because they couldn’t afford insurance. Each year that is 15 times the folks we lost on 9/11, dead and gone. And the Republicans just whistled and walked on by.
Posted by: Librarian53 | November 17, 2011, 11:44 am 11:44 am
if both have trouble kagan and Thomas should be exclude BOTH but now the left the liberals want exclude Thomas but not Elena again and again they doing the same thing always do cheating all the time what a shame with this policy definitely this country going down and the sad part when the people open they eyes will be too LATE LATE
Posted by: betty | November 17, 2011, 11:49 am 11:49 am
Exclude them BOTH and we’ll just balance out two oppossing votes. It will make NO difference at all. This branch of the USA Government was ONCE so highly regarded and trusted but is now just as ‘dirty’ as all the rest so why should be even have them making decisions any longer. It began when they “PICKED” the man THEY wanted as President and gave us YEARS of misery and then they sold out our whole political system by allowing the WEALTHY to buy said government. They have fallen so far off that pedestal they ONCE belonged on that I doubt that we will EVER have an “HONEST” judiciary ever again!
Posted by: demNme5 | November 17, 2011, 12:27 pm 12:27 pm
@Lakeisha Jackson
Lakeisha, I am not the fan of Justice Kagan that you are, but I do believe that she is a person of character and integrity. I think you are wrong in your assumption, however, that she will recuse herself.
Your point is certainly correct that, as Solicitor General, advising the White House on potential legislation was her job…and no one really believes that she didn’t advise on the healthcare legislation. But look at the spin that is being pushed now…claiming that she only had a small role, and wasn’t really central to it. (Despite the fact that it’s EXACTLY what she was being paid to do.)
I believe that Justice Kagan is going to convince herself that this legislation is too important to take a solid liberal vote away from it, professional integrity be damned. I expect her to hear the case, and we all know (of course) which way she will rule.
Posted by: Brian Washington | November 17, 2011, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm
Brian Washington: Responding to your 12:31 post, I would NOT want Justice Kagan to recuse herself unles and UNTIL Clarence Thomas does the same – because if he does NOT, then the outcome would SURELY be right leaning but if BOTH were to recuse themselves – back to an even playing field.
Posted by: demNme5 | November 17, 2011, 2:01 pm 2:01 pm
Re: Scalia and Thomas attending meetings with groups that want to repeal ObamaCare… Does anyone believe that Ginsburg, Sotamayor and Kagan have not attended functions with groups which approve of Obama Care?
Re: Thomas’s wife… yes she has worked for conservative groups, long before she was married to Thomas. She works for a group, which one of their many stated goals, is to repeal this flawed bill. I would imagine nearly every conservative organization in the country is against this bill…
Posted by: Martin | December 21, 2011, 11:59 am 11:59 am
his wife v. her defense…close call? i think not…well played!
Posted by: glascoe | March 30, 2012, 12:41 pm 12:41 pm