'10% Happier' with Vegan Ultra-Endurance Athlete Rich Roll

The best-selling author talks with ABC's Dan Harris about finding meditation while working on getting sober and how he turned his life around.
39:36 | 03/23/17

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Transcript for '10% Happier' with Vegan Ultra-Endurance Athlete Rich Roll
Paid Stan. Welcome to another edition of the tension happier podcasts Adam. My guess this week. As a guy met a couple years ago shortly after my book came out became an amount sinner Mimi I had no idea that such a big deal. But now I do as news rich role and he is that he may have heard him he's got a very popular podcast he's also an author. And and ultra endurance athlete in my putting it correctly that's fairly correct fit what's the absolute correctly it is it. Well the big deal part I don't know about that that node to be a deal partisan but ultra endurance athlete is is carried out that's correct and and also you do all this while being plant makes another merger of the union. So a lot of people wonder how can you exert yourself the way in ways in which you do while eating. No meat. Which will get to the don't start with the question now is start with witches argue minutes later and if so idea there and why I am commentator. I had. Interesting kind of relationship with meditation and evolving relationship but meditation. I think my first introduction to meditation was in rehab where I live for a hundred days when it's 31 years old. And alcohol. Interest paying descent into the deaths of alcoholism that took me some pretty dark places throw my twenties. Was lucky enough to hit that bottom and surrender took. Problem I was having and sought out help and went to rehab in organ or in the for a hundred days and that was my first introduction to. Many things a toolbox for how I live my life today one of them is meditation which is part of the twelve steps. And I can't say that it really stuck. They sent prayer or or or meditating right right exactly what what did they teach you don't really teach you much of anything. They disservice say this is part of it and it is Connie gets brushed over I think in my opinion now with what I know about meditation and talent packed fought has been in my life it's certainly a component of sobriety. In that construct. But I would say that it's under emphasized but I but that was the first you know introduction and then after that started. On yoga classes and was introduced to it a little bit more through that. Medium. But it never became a regular practice or a priority. For me until recent years and an inner really came through doing my podcast. And interviewing. Meditation teachers and practitioners. Friends of mind and it just became very clear to me that this was the lines. That it really needed to incorporated in my life in and since then it has incrementally grown into. Priority and something producers' league now on have found to be extremely professional can use its way practices. I keep it really simple I don't get too dogmatic about it I don't. Get too caught up in technique really just try to focus on camera in hand. And stay out. Sort of the self judgment and I think. Trips up a lot of people. As a comfort yeah it's up and down and editing like I did you know ninety seconds peace and then you know the mind inner beings once again as it always does. But rather than beat myself to check out about it we are now well that that's after years of dealing straight. And just try to continually you know releases releases releases bring it back to the breath and hopefully. Incrementally it'll open water and you know I've noticed the benefits in many ways in my life and so. Christ I buy believe and it strongly and I think. Part of my evolution was for for many years as an ultra endurance athlete like us and a lot of time in solitude training. Hours by really long runs. And there's there's certainly an active meditation components used. And I've. Gotten a lot of benefit out of and for many years I sort of said well that's my meditation I think a lot of that all quiet and my wife who's. A much more rounded and experienced meditated and myself would constantly says that's great race that like. I think you really are missing the bigger picture here they're something to a structured formalized. Meditation practice that is qualitatively different. From what you're experiencing when your training and tell her yet you know what I'm doing like you know you understand. But when I actually committed to doing a formal meditation practice I realize the difference and so I'm always quick to point to the many athletes. Speak. Yet it can I get Mellish stick on this. Can I don't think it's not for you it's for anybody is listening because. I didn't mapping out with some with some colleagues of mine from the 10% happier. App company like all the reasons that people give for not meditating. And one of them is blank is my meditation Malone running at my meditation gardening is my meditation petting my dog is my meditation I need to meditate and Marty in this thing. And my answer to that is maybe. The pens they're don't. But if you run the way I run which is that you're rehearsing all the stuff here is it your boss ignore year. Listening to a podcaster listening to music. Planning a murder whatever that is not meditation. If you are running and Europe have runs are out and you're feeling your foot falls your feeling when on your face. Yeah a feeling emotion of your body and then every time you get distracting you start again. Whether your medicine Bret I don't know many people actually run like that or garden like that are at their dog like that. And if and if you do then great then blank is your meditation but if you don't then a formal seated practice might be. Yet it and. And conversely if you're sitting in Lotus position and near your fingers are in the right place and you have your Mala beads in your hand. But you're cursing what you're gonna say your boss that's probably not meditation I've. Manifestly not benefit and absolutely however I think it really done that one just the only thing I'd say if they don't want people to hear that and say well I I say it and I. In whatever is that you are you concerned whenever you want just for the record you know to sit in in a load of disease in the chair but a lot of people sit and feel. Khalili distracted they do find themselves. Rehearsing arguments for their Ross are planning on to whatever. Is long as a new the knew they only ingredient that needs to be added there is the intention. To focus on your breath or whatever your object of meditation is and then every time you get luster again so don't feel guilty. Listeners and viewers whatever. If you find you suck it just getting distracted or ninth that's because that's the whole game. As you said when you eloquently described. Thank you. Thank you so. Sit so this has been a couple of years ever really sustained serious practice on Europe Garrett say about three years two and a half years at what kind of I wanna hear about the impacts in your life from them and pick one. Narrow area first which is on your. Athletics has that had an impact on your performance yeah absolutely. Absolutely I think the biggest impact that it's had. Is. The ability to. Anchor yourself in the present moment. So when an end to become the observer your thinking lines and country talk about this all the time that the thinking mind is very good at certain things. But it's probably no skill that talking about whatever it is you're attempting to do you think. Or you know the self defeating thoughts like I have a lot of insecurities and a lot of anxieties and and those inevitably crop and when year whether you're training Harrier racing and I mean these extended you know he's incredibly long races do. It's it's impossible to not how that moment word. Where everything. Everything in your mind and your body's telling you to stop this giving us reasons why this is stupid light during this used to be at home and your kids you could be eating a cheeseburger exactly well not the teaser for entity to be able to distinguish that from. Your higher consciousness. And understand that this is just the chatter of the idle mind and that you actually have the ability. The the ability to discern the difference and make a decision even if it's just that like extra little moment to understand that. So that you're not reactive and you can actually contemplate an appropriate response. An anchor yourself back into the present moment and move for bingo. How old you know if your eyes turf if you look good. So are you how well are you still how far can you run it hatred in my knees blown up from running on a treadmill. I can run pretty far I would say I haven't raced since 2011 so my training kind of was very intense from around 2007 to 2011. And then since then it's been about podcasting and talking to people like you and writing books and travel and the like but turning fifty I've now kind of refocused. Our how performance goal for this year's onto an epic race in September so. I've actually just gotten back into some pretty structured serious training in a certain program because I wanna see what I can do fifty what is and meanness it a race but cool way when you say race is like you're gonna run five K Woody's. Well the race are all all set the stage five. Providing some contacts the room the race that I specialized in the in the past in misery skull orchard man which is a double Iron Man distance trials on its a three day. 320. Miles circumnavigate some of the date uniformly that's ridiculous which is ridiculous yes it is. Yeah and I done very well memories I'm not an offer that Saddam legacy whatever the opposite of opium and the couch manager ultra man in your own world no going to be in no world in my notepad out at an eleven bigbie you know I give your prospers so and that races like. The first day you you swim. Six point two miles and then ride your bike ninety miles the second any writer by 171 miles in the third day. He celebrate this all ridiculous affair by running 52 point four miles doubled marathon. So that's pretty far I haven't done anything like down a couple of years the race I'm doing in September. Is this really bizarre to people die doing this I mean people don't die it's amazing you its. 45 almost the same in the same face the race and I'm doing in September as called hotel low and it's in Sweden and it is a it's the world championships something else swimmer on which is a big deal in Europe nobody's ever heard of it United States but. It's a very long like and nine are race over the course of the day you end up running about forty miles and swimming about seven miles. But there's 52 transition so your in. Kind of archipelago. South of Stockholm. And you your some across these waterways in the climbing up these rocks and running across his little islands and then jumping back and water and swimming. And and and and literally change you know the whole time to do the whole thing and like this modified wetsuit with you're running shoes on like you leave your running shoes on while your swimming. And you're tethered. To a teammates he do it as a duo like in pairs. Are you blindfolded during an Indian he did you all your area gather I don't let anything else you can nudity increased the degree of difficulty I don't know like that it's it's a new world for me I'm still learning about it and scares me which is why I'm excited to do it finally you know back in in September after there first person on this podcasts to use the word archipelago. So I guess that was always have that you will have a so so. Other areas of relief of your life Amin will you have. From its fifth street four Kidd for him when their ages. 222013. In line so. How has meditation impacted your fans. I would say that. It's similar to it's it's a similar it's similar to how it's improved my athletics really I think it's. It's about being able to be present in one carrier to going to be able to show and can actually be there as opposed to you know assertive. Being distracted all the time so for example you know there can be you can be a stay at home mom or dad. But if you're sort of on your phone on the whole time that your with your kids or your reading the newspaper or anxious or. You know caught up in your mind about other things that are bugging you then how president are you really. So for me it's allowed me to you flip that switch and really be. Where I'm. In whatever capacity that is at the parents as partners my wife sober. There also. To be able to not get caught up in you know the drama that inevitably occurs when you know siblings are not getting along or. Stuff your kids are doing are not happy with so you're not. Being reactive to that and you're able to sort of contemplate the appropriate parenting response. For kids is ambitious format to of one and down. He's like. Your C a movie. Jurassic world are they make a dinosaur in the lab. Who's we made him in the lab whose idea it any turns out to be complete your the dinosaur in the destroys everything that's a little bit like what's happened I. Well it's miniature it's been fun it's been tried you know mad that you older ones. Our. My wife's voice from a previous marriage. So. On their stepped out but they've lived with me since they were three in four years old men and their fathers since passed away. And the two little girls that my wife in particular. Adorable so. Can you tell me a little bit you've told me this offline but and I know used give speeches about this but. Tell us a little bit about your story of how you became. This endurance athlete because your. As you you were you reference a little bit earlier but you weren't living the healthiest lifestyles for much of your early years. Right so so I had to struggle with drugs and alcohol throughout my twenties or that's over at 31. And you know I was somebody. That as a young person a lot of promise like I'd graduate top Mike awesome high school and every college I'd like to Stanford. Was named world ranked swimmer competed on two NC two in division one championship teams. You know how the world by the tail at one point and I squandered a lot of those opportunities as a result of mine you know issues with substance. And so when I got sober I became very intent upon where colonel records that I created as a result of pine tree in using. And I serve through all of my addictive tendencies and obsessive compulsive behavior patterns into my work in in my profession and to try to you you proved to myself that I could repair this. And also to the world and to society and so I kind of chased this American dream and as a corporate lawyer. On the partnership in I was ice I was successful in that regard so by the time I was 39. You know successful attorney partnership track. You know it's nice sports car in the driveway you know I met my wife building a family wouldn't really nice tone and so. But I before look at today's intra Lucas is a plot twists coming before we give them that what. What we believe it was undergirding the debt problems with drugs and alcohol and then the kind of diversionary addiction tech did to tactic that he took in your thirties of throwing all of that into. In two your professional. Ambition what was what was going on in your mind at that mail that happen. It's kind of the 64000 dollar question you know wiry an alcoholic and trying to spend too much time trying to Parse that because I don't know. What benefit ails me. You know is it genetic is it something that happened to me when I was a kid you know I don't know the answer to that I do you know that. I was one of those kids who is insecure and kind of a loner had difficulty making friends always felt like I was separate from. And I fat you know had I just felt like everybody had the rule book for life and I didn't yell at him. I finances surprisingly is because if he too meet you now fifty like we are very cool. Yeah I was not cool kid know very nerdy kid you know I was I was very much. You know the difference it's. And I speak. Drugs and alcohol help me you know helped they helped give me social skills and actually starts out as fun you know works in the beginning. It brought me out of my shell suddenly Iraqi go to parties to talk to girls like a cracked jokes and it was like all good for a period of time and actually do more and you do more. You know it turned dark for me it started to you know route my ambitions and it really broke my instincts and you know me be do things that I would not ordinarily do. And really. You know at the end it was it was bad I was I was day. Around the clock drinker he really pocket tonic in the shower. Sneak in during throughout the day. You know use that and and how and when I was in re one in the counselors. Yeah after it like when I went to rehab I finally told people when I was actually doing justices like MySpace secret even though everybody knew I was no call our new arms and call for a long time forests over. They city you know rich. You have. A pretty progressed case about like you we usually see this in 65 year old lifelong drinkers like this is this year's thing like. Because when I showed up in rehab I thought I was gonna do a spin dry. And you know couple weeks and just get back to my job and they're like yeah and we think you should stick around and that's why I ended up staying for such a long period of time like I got it. Good for you for getting it yet and you know it hasn't been easy and it hasn't been a Linear progression of growth year. But it did save my life and and yet to this day sobriety is my number one priority number active movement in recovery community. But you know to kind of get back to to get back to the story so. You know I still how are still on extreme I've always been an extreme personality was in my swimming career was academically and that's just how I'm wired for better or worse. So throwing myself into that kind of work a whole is on. You know worked to the extent that it progressed my career. But I never took a -- to sort of consider what confronts actually wanted to do I was so obsessed with. She's being viewed in the eyes of society as somebody who is successful and responsible. So I kind of chase this you know. Legal partnership thing without really. Taking a minute to decide whether that was actually something really want it so by the time I was 39 and meanwhile. You know stop taking care myself physically so I became a junk food addict it put on fifty pounds. And on the inside I was I was kind of depressed like a couch potato. In a search sliding into middle age on a crash course with with. Crime style moments. And so. Shortly before it turned forty. I had this moment where this kind of existential crisis those harboring. Crashed into a health scare where I was walking up flight of stairs to go to sleep late one night and applause. As we ended in harper from tightness in my chest and sway my brown. Really felt like I was on the precipice of having heart attack it was a very frightening moment. And it was very similar to Dave that I decided I was finally advocates over like a very crystallized moment in time realize like. I'm having that experience again and an opportunity to you really change my life and it's I was evil alike. I had to cognizance to understand that this is a special moment and it really grab onto it and now it's the beginning. Of trying to course correct insulin so did you quit the law firm what happened. Not overnight. You know I started playing around with diet and nutrition to try to find a way of eating that would allow my body to heal itself and feel better and now was not overnight process either I was trying everything acted she's clans that try to bunch of different diets. And really stumbled into eating plant days as a last resort after trying everything Yeltsin and not finding success. And when I went completely 100% plant days like no animal products no processed foods. In very short period of time like a week to ten days I felt unbelievably Bauer. I felt I had more energy than since I was a teenager I realized I'd. Heck kind have packed into something that perhaps could be quite profound and started educate myself about diet nutrition and with that. Team a a desire to sort of take care of myself physically can and I had an impulse and desire to get fit once again to exercise which I hadn't felt in many years. And that was a gradual process that you just you know going outside enjoying a little bit I didn't have aspirations to return to competitive athletics in my forties. Are released Wanda Lee's got around my midsection and be able to enjoy my kids that there energy level. With each kind of successive week that went by I was enjoying it more and more on the pounced on a melted away. And I was experiencing. Huge you know like this this joy that I hadn't fell. Since I was like kids you know when I love swimming and I just wanted more and more of that and it made a decision. That I was gonna follow that in polls like it was I was starting on pack like. You know what it was about me it just me me happy in a very simple primal way and I decided to. Listen to that instead repressed that hinges to kind of way. Society expected me to do. Meanwhile practicing law and I'm doing all that kind of stuff but ultimately ended up quitting the big law firm started. Little practice with a couple France and started a little bit more agency over my time. And in a very short period of time. I felt like I had. I was starting to morph into this different person like a completely different person who was more comfortable in my own skin leaving more kind of authentic to who was. And it was so profound that it kind of led me to this question. Human possibility and potential. Because of that period of like maybe six months I went from like this fifty pound overweight couch potato guy. It to a somebody who was really excited about being outdoors and going out on the trail would don't mind. And feeling slam in my body again and I wanted to fix it it it start it what it did was. It may be realized that I have all these blind spots about what I'm actually capable. And I wanted to explore the other rumors of and when I found out about this world of ultra endurance sports that just fascinated me and it seem like. A perfect template to kind of explore that for myself. I think it mean. There's a way in which. Your story as amazing as it is could be whittled down to a bit of a cliche of if you know follow your dream and I suspect that some people listening this or well. Like I don't have the luxury to do with this dude did I can't you know. Quit my job min and start running all over the world the world would he say to people who have the listen your story and say art will that's for some other people. I'm me. Yes a great question. And I actually. You know went through kind of a financial dismantling as we can underwent this transformation and actually as a family really so it wasn't easy. I would say to anybody who who has that reactions that. It's not about quitting your job and following you know it's not about like making these radical overnight changes I think that we all have. Untapped reservoirs of potential and I think we have blind spots when it comes to things that make us happy. And I would encourage anybody who's listening to kind of conjure up or try to ram an answer remember. Things that gave them joy as a child. And to the extent that those are things that one does not do anymore for whatever reason. That there's always a way to. To express those in your life and it doesn't have to mean quitting your job like if you liked playing the banjo when you were twelve for. He liked writing jokes then maybe there's a way it's go into an open Mike night or. To take it guitar lesson or do you that thing find a way in your free time to explore that part of you that is under expressed. But ultimately. You know fundamental component of of who you are and what brings you happiness. So how serious did you get about. The does. Athletics. How far did you go at it. And in ultra during general I got pretty serious about it he I got producers about it I hired a coach I got it I learn about this race ultra man and I became obsessed like I've got to find ways to use race like a switch was flipped. And it's illogical in polls kind of took hold of me. And I just knew I had find a way to toe the line that race. For whatever reason it made no logical sense whatsoever what your wife Saba and she was always really supportive she's like go for it that's fantastic and she knew that I was struggling and suffering. And she saw that this was a way for me to. Was like a journey to wholeness like it really was as if it really was. A spiritual adventure for me of trying to reconnect with. With myself in a profound way. So she always had my back and I could have never done any of the things done without her support. Yeah I cannot really in Tanzania and its most intense I was training upwards of 25 yards of weeks almost became job. And I was juggling practicing hunt the time. And so I can remember being out on a long train long training right to my phone with rang and a pull over the side of the road and I would negotiate some deal with clothes pins and other lawyers and I'd be like. If they could see where what I'm actually doing right now they wouldn't a wouldn't believe it so it was a bit of a tight rope back for a little while. Until I kind of came out of a closet with what I was actually doing. But yeah I took it very seriously. And because I wanted to be able to do it and say I gave it everything I got to see what I was actually capable of doing and so what is your. Professional portfolio consists of now now. I stop practicing law in 2012 when my first book came out foreign Alter I just cut the cord completely. His I'd been weaning myself off of that for some time. But it was always like this lifeline you know the phone would ring and I could do a deal represents some clients and and and I knew that if I didn't completely cut back corps that I would always go back to it and I wanted to be able it is completely jump into the abyss so. Today. My life consists of doing my podcast and traveling for public speaking writing books got a few products on my side I've got some online courses and the like. And just basically being an advocate of march for healthy. Your job is to be rich world it's kind I think its eggs it's a good show up for an eightieth they have nobody else that's right nobody can take it away from effect. So the let's talk about being ism or you prefer plant based diet. That's another one that people here and think. I can't get there big personally now because I eight. And I talked about this on the on the show before a lake me. I would like to do it on many levels Dayton's what's holding you back mostly just to say it mostly because an animal cruelty. Mean that some knees is the biggest motivate your I don't know that it would have some sort of I've eaten. And very close to be in on in if not full woeful on begin on lengthy meditation retreats and I didn't notice any sort of major. Physical change. Could I eat reasonably healthy as it is but. And what's holding me back. I would have it would have to I really would have to in my life support me and I think she feels very strongly to an animal cruelty and we just haven't been able to do it and we have and I think the real issues we have made it a priority frankly we've talked about it we both agree on. Ethical grounds that the case is really sure on. We just haven't. Made it rare mountain do you cook at how. Do you do not as much as I should I make at homes Moody's including movies from your cookbook and also a smoothie that you just. One day when you're my office to only action have just spinach kale. Banana blueberry. And I add avocado and it's delicious even know it sounded discussing me at the time. Elsa mate just you know peanut biter. Allman milk. Greek you know you wouldn't like your part and bananas. For my kid he loves it says and I you know I cook. He had two little bit looking at right notably pilots tell you ever cooked pork. Yea you sent today all right Erica it all right so so what's holding you back sounds like it's its priorities nation yet. Laziness and ownership right right right its interest thing also let my wife Wu I couldn't do it without I I don't think I could just thirty I understand and yeah I understand. You know I think it's. It's a leap of faith for people. Wants U kind of make that commitment and step over the line living in York city it's easy to. You know so he's not an easy it wouldn't be easy. I think he'd be surprise every dinner I have with friends would be. Discussion I'm sure when you look at each with friends so well you're an LA and you move in wellness circles that early fine well yeah like now I'm like everybody knows it's the guys that's not a big deal net person terrorism massive pain and you know what it. It can be there's a lot of mental projection about that though that ends up being. Not as challenging as you might imagine you know trial all over the world I've in restaurants all the time I've never had an issue making it work. Where there's a well as a way and there's a you know there's there's certain social graces that you've learned that navigated. Because the last thing I wanna be in a restaurant is the pain in the ass guy who's like you know make and stain can drawing attention to himself and you know sometimes on just excused myself from the dinner table and go find the waiter and say can easily make muted Vegas you've ever seen urges you know two through you know throw together a bunch. Vegetables on some rice and and and that way go back to the table and you know he he you realize like people. You think everyone's judging you and looking at you people are self obsessed generally care they're thinking about themselves S I mean. A friend this is just. So somewhat of a tangent that are. I think that's such a great point and a former boss of mine who had endured a few. It's a tough public trials. Nowhere you know yet that means there were scandals reconstruct word that and he had he would do endorse some stuff where. Things were written about him that he didn't like and he said. Going through that is like being seasick. To you it feels like the world is ending everybody else it's like mildly amusing and it's true we're all in the stars from movie when you know we don't worldly clickserve mildly interested in other people's them to your right I guess. Years there's a mental projection going out on my hand on the social aspect of these. But here's the thing when you when you break it down and you really look at it it's it's kind of an amazing lifestyle because right now or in the midst of this in seen. Health care crisis you know. Something like 70% of Americans are overweight or obese one out of every three people are gonna die of heart disease. They're projecting that by 203050%. Of Americans or need diabetic pre diabetic. Said he 5% of all health care costs are attributable to these chronic lifestyle illnesses. And the truth is if you go plant based you can basically opt out of becoming one of those statistics and and it's an amazing way. To not succumb to these diseases that are killing millions and millions of people. Meanwhile. You know animal agriculture is worse is is basically worse his is like the number one culprit when it comes to almost. Every single man made environmental ill on the planet more greenhouse gas emissions than all transportation combined. You know it's it's wreaking Havoc on our planet so there's the environmental concern there's that ethical. Considerations that are important to you and there's a health considerations and I don't know of any other lifestyle acting like check all of those boxes. It's really profound it's it's it's really profound it's beautiful. Way to live more sustainably. On this planet and from kind of a meditation perspective. It's. You know there's there's less sort of permits whole you know and and and it and it just feels to lift. It's not about being on a a poll Clinton and judging anyone else for their lifestyle decisions it's a personal choice. But I can tell you that you know I got into it for personal health reasons I just in wanna be fat and relatively easy. And now he environmental concerns and ethical concerns have taken the forefront and you know our our. Are of primary interest in the. Into the war and quote I remember when we had you can't in my office to interview me for your podcast many years ago and an ounce on taking credit for you launching a podcast I guess you shed actually looked really argue and that these fancy little mites announcement well this looks like fun and now look at this yes our outerwear and Heidi streaming as believable is that I work for disease that we have a few resources. And but will ammerman we turn to myself I ask you budget question of the innocent this is just something that I it's really been in the back my head for a long time. And one of the questions I asked was how do you mean if you or are you getting enough protein to be able to perform at the level you need in. Accused could you repeat what you set to me. Yeah they're so. So many misconceptions about protein and a lot of it is driven by. Marketing forces because when you go to the grocery store looks like every packaged food product. In bold capital letters will tell you how much protein. His in the product and it's almost impossible from a consumer perspective to not. Kind of intuitively take away from that net. Well we must need tons of protein like if I don't trigger protein shake within moments of waking up in the morning how my gonna possibly free to air in and out of my longs. The truth of the matter is that we actually don't. Need that much protein about 10% of calories when you're talking about protein you're really talking about amino acids the building blocks of protein I wished the word protein didn't even exist and we were talking about amino acids. And what we really near the nine essential amino acids which are the ones that our bodies cannot synthesize on our own we need to keep them from foods that turns out there. In copious amounts and all kinds of plant foods if you randomly graze on plants all day long you'll be hard pressed to not meet he or. Daily recommended. Allowance of protein. And I've been doing this for ten years on 150 like a second so gotten Killen with the best of them I've never had any problems building lean muscle mass are recovering in between work out. So I think the whole thing is a big red Herring and and it's just not something that we need to really be concerned about or focused on the truth is is that no doctors are treating patients for protein deficiency although we all think we're not getting enough for a team. Or really should be talking about its fiber most people are not getting enough fiber in their diet. And you know. A chest think that we need to. Really take a look at this obsession that we have with protein and understand that it is misplaced. There are play any of amazing. Accomplish plant based athletes out there are more and more every day. And you know it's easy for me to say skinny long distance runner guy but they're MMA fighters and boxers body builders and power lifter is and yeah athletes where speed and agility. And force and strength are of Paramount importance and they're all tell you the same thing the recovery is better. Dave their less prone to get injured. And as an athlete recovery is like the holy Grail faster you can recover in between workouts. The harder you can train and when you pro track that out over a course of the season are a number of years you see tremendous performance gains. Plus we have these gigantic large Irma for animals. You know like a brine now and the you know the guerrilla these are. These are verbal force and they're able to build tremendous strength eating just plants and I think they're something to be learned from. It with people. Learn more about you who. How can they do so would. What does. Place where we're sure we go what you we read dictator it's ever wanna know more about ritual. My website ritual look calm as the best place my podcast is the ritual podcast confront and on iTunes or wherever you listen to this podcast. And I'm just rich role on Twitter and instrument pretty easy to foreign and a unit and the books. Comic book is called finding ultra it's my memoir and then. The cook book is called the plants are way plan. Harrowing rape and strengthen our kitchen. Such a pleasure to have you on man. Thanks for having a really appreciate it was really fun howling any TV and when we need to do I think every conversation like this outside that your card on recently. Also got in my head about this so it's. It's it's in there percolate dates it's percolating in a very powerful way so it this has been very useful cool thanks to urges. And thinks everybody's listening or watching live streaming this and and if you want to rate us or review us or. Subscribe we always appreciate that. Yet master's degree in rate us and much to learn how to meditate take up 10% happier app. We'll see you next time. Thank you.

This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.

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