CEO of La Colombe coffee: 'I don't want this tax cut'

Todd Carmichael said he is one of the few CEOs in America willing to declare what other executives won't: that while the new tax bill may be good for his business, it's bad for the country.
36:15 | 12/12/17

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Transcript for CEO of La Colombe coffee: 'I don't want this tax cut'
Hey guys here in studio today we have with us Todd Carmichael he's the CEO of lock alarm it's coffee roasting coffee products in its cafes company we can say now thanks so much for being here can't play here. So we're not gonna talk back copy now really look ahead we my little if you work it and if it we talk about taxes. Taxes yet. That don't sound surprised by enactment but it's important to point however everywhere listening and watching. We speaking on Friday December 1 today's the day the senate is considering. They're Republicans tax reform plan and it looks likely at this point according to what Senate Leadership says that their plan will tax we have earlier packs rather. We have no idea what happens from there sort of talk about in the context of what we know to be true today so far which could change right there to say. Or so before we jump into taxes. I want to know about you we like to do this here we want to know about where he grew up coming back to family. How did you come to hold the things that are important to you. To be important to write on like uses were holes. Because I think a lot of the things that I. Adding that its army and and they you know that I operate around started when I was a kid and which was in the state of Washington. I'm a farm kid fruits and vegetables. I was able to go to university Washington. To school I was first like many people. That's the first my family to do that because a can run relief far really fast it was a distance runner. And while there I found a job and it was dragging grain sacks around in a in a warehouse. That had three cafes the time. It was called star Brooks was 1982 heard of it. I have to. What was amazing about those Sachs was they weren't great sex that I had back home the group had different names on like Rwanda and Burundi you've gone and for farm kid is never traveled. It just sparked my imagination and I. I love the idea that. But this product was connected this big big world peace began dreaming about it and tell it time came more I went and saw my porch in Africa and central and South America. To growing up on as a farm kid that was at a pretty isolated existence were you an only child like what we know how are you raced side three sisters are. And it was small community by tight knit community it wasn't an easy community I mean it was so was to. And the death of farming in that area. And early early eighties. You know that the governments have changed Ronald Reagan became president became very difficult for small farms actually survive. And so that sparked my my path in life to find something for myself. And I didn't fall very far away from the farm in the coffee is to farmed it. And so I have that that beautiful. Kind of travel the world didn't and work I think that I understand just from more than things that were important to you what do you remember your mom and dad telling you again growing up over again. While he you know it. For me it was always you know decency was really key I mean I think that's something that rural America taught me. Being a good neighbor was super important news playing fair in the sand box just basic ideas that. That can or instilled into me and my grandparents they're Scottish people came here. And they just had a very simple way of looking at life and it it was in it was the ABCs of the being. Being a successful person meant. You know doing right by the people around you. And you know I never thought it would grow up to be a snowflake like I am I'm a progressive is that how you self identify I guess analytically expression Aggies what does that mean. Well I just pick up a hill terms that are used you know I just believe that. You know giving packed the community is is a part of success. And make it true that everyone has shot at the same thing we shot this is it's just something that was. And you know injected in me but. It wasn't. Defined as any. Kind of politics until later in my life to politics is there a thing grow up for it really wasn't yet you know it's we we didn't surround debate pros and cons of tax slaughtered like that but. It was more of it how to be a decent person a little good life. And I find out if I stay on the path while right things like I did recently in pop ads in newspapers I'm just really continuing moments in past. So when you talk about that a bad because that's why a you and I connected in the first place. Republicans and the president called the tax plan and they're proposing now a middle class miracle I. Not you disagree you're not that about it and it Tyler that was what every CEO knows. But won't tell you about the proposed tax bill. Well I mean you can name a goldfish a lion but it's still goldfish. I think that this is really clever packaging. But being a behind that rap. He is a casino to tax tax cut for corporations which isn't necessarily a bad thing. On particularly if you're looking to us two per stimulus sort of pack is package. If interest rates are. You know at a certain level or that cat investment cash is is this down etc. or the stock market is tumbling. B a great idea to give a tax for corporations lose none of those things exist. Know what we do need actually is that the name of the package which is somehow giving a break to people who are working class and middle class in this country. Now there are you know the slope of and the assent of let's say a company like mine is growing at 7580%. Of their other companies are really sky rocketing. I'm you compare that line to a line of the income that it's entering the homes of America which is extraordinary flat. So which one would you think should require the stimulus. The ones like mine where the the flattered. And. So one of the concerns in you're not alone in expressing his concern I should say you're one of the very few CEO is. To express this to say Aaron yet which is why I wanna dig into that a little bit as well. But what you just for anyone who hasn't caught up on the intricacies one of the consistent parts of the various plan proposals as they cut the corporate tax street. From 35% to 20% in ray who. That's huge yeah yeah that's what half a trillion dollars so wing you look at that. First of all what's your concern about what kind of effect that would happen on on the country as a. Well I mean someone has to pay for it now there's always that concerns like so four and a for a jam up you know the that the charges on the credit card you better have a plan paying for nurse at fort. Although you know there it's for me do the you know again a stimulus packages like. Like a bunker brits say you have a war might my grandparents or his title as food stock in their basement ride. They lived through the great depression and wars in Houston but they never eat that food you see I was there if kicked in case things went wrong. And a stimulus packs like this is that it's the soups and crackers analysts things there in your basement in case something goes wrong. The fact there were eating after dinner is dangerous because years we might need and it won't be there it won't be there. So why why doesn't this argument hold on paper it looks really good at right that if you cut. Tax rate for corporations he'd make a very business friendly environment people are more likely taking that money reinvest it back into their companies into their employees and eventually. There is what has been called sort of the trickle down right right alone get back to everybody else from the Angel who create the jobs and drive the economy in the first place. Yeah he by that. Because. And because it's it's false. As it ever been true at any point in America it is it because here's the story. As a CEO. Of a corporation you have an extraordinarily strong fiduciary duty to your shareholders. It's dare your life is and everything you do is there for one purpose that is to make gains for your shareholders and pass it to them this is your fiduciary duty. You can't solve things below Constance beauty there's a lot of things that you can't be your your your primary duty in life is to hook them up with whatever gains that you confide. This is a gain it is fattening the bottom line and it doesn't belong to the employees. It doesn't belong to the community doesn't want to small business suppliers than one anybody. Except the investors. And investors really aren't gonna trickle trickle down concern at the lion's share of investment at least in the stock action are people. Above. A certain salary and above the yeah that the class and working man who. Is it fair to say though because this all this is sort of an estimation it's a prediction right we are speculating to some degree a about what the final bill would be but also. About the environment in which it takes place in what the actual effects could be crane were all kind of guessing to some degree. Is it in here to say that it might when. Well no I'd say the did the most effective way to get from point a to point B is a straight line. When UP OK so if we B is to attack to get some kind of advantage to the middle class then why don't you go directly there. Then through the hocus pocus channels of Wall Street the rest of it. It just seen and with the hopes that need be something bold to ruled down from the lap rafters and land in your bank account. It just is simply hasn't worked that would in the past we've seen that the majority of all it can't economists will it will agree with me. I mean just logic agrees with the news that ultimately had to say listen if you want to give a tax return people who really deserve it which everyone agrees here the do it. T here's what we noted teacher that you wanted to incorporate some good information here is biko and again. Ilyce changing the those evolving we don't know how it's gonna and death but there's been a couple of nonpartisan. Analyses. Of the bill so far the CBO is basically said that it would hurt workers. Earning less than 30000 a year and would actually bulk of the benefits that go to the highest earners. Over the nest next decade and the joint committee on taxation which kind of looks at that how things could change dynamics scoring two taking into account future earnings says that. The Republicans promised they would pay for itself is not true than in actually. At a trillion dollars to the deficit. That's just an array of information as we know he's Obama are obvious is that I'm again 2:30 PM eastern standard time. And a radar could change in the second the very volatile that the use of the word one trillion point one truly. And I should I should also say Senate Leadership says that that's not accurate its conservative best palca always always different route for the tartans that's progress of that number the one trillion could be low. I look at it. There's one trillion something different large number. Two what do you know based on what you scenes apartment the plan how would in fact buckled. While a you know it. Look luck along we'll get a great break on its taxes. And I turned and trying to decide right now what I meant to do with all that money look at you do it. Well typically had in any other environment will be would do is to sit I'm amazing my profits huge urine and bigger and amazing and I'm on the genius and then. The dividends to the shareholders would be bigger. But part of me feels like. I don't know staging some kind of protest and take that money do something outrageous what it. But it's greatly look at your businesses and grow and yet rates and to answer profits profits have gone up from you as you mentioned before even making good on your fiduciary responsibility to shareholders that's been going back to. Dividends buybacks. Right exactly yeah. So yeah I. I haven't really come to terms there is that it's not fair for me to really answer that question now because the thing is I don't want this task I don't want. I don't think anyone else I think that all the people who I know that run companies are CEOs are looking each other and on what's happening. We didn't ask of us we know it won't work. And there's keeping it that's true without competition really going on them ghetto with leaders with the ones with the people there on my circle. Yeah and from B from Silicon Valley to Philadelphia and what are they saying. They they don't understand it every once just a bit shocked by why is this happening. It's certainly just got picked out of a crowd so wants it spread around a trillion dollars you get part of that money would and and recognizing that this was this is to stimulate the middle this isn't gonna work we winnow it. And we we don't have a choice ultimately there are shareholders want that money. But I guess there is an element of choice to some degree right I mean there it is labeled as. Private citizens come to an agreement to basically say we don't need debts and are not going to use this in the ways that we have in the past we're gonna act differently this time it could that happen it could. Well let's look at some of the events that we've seen over the last week where they've asked you know room peaceful CEOs what they would how how many people are gonna invest. This money in like three people lot of eighty raised their hands Rihanna. On and there are I don't think that anyone has as significant plan in place yet because it is all very. Shocking. I mean it's sure it what's happening in DC shocking everybody including the CEO it's shocking because Republicans have been trying for years and years. To push through a very similar tax reform plan right why is anyone surprised well I think it's this kind of the same thing when they you know they kept trying to. To in priestess bill threw out to house about. You know getting rid of obamacare but no one thought it was gonna go through moments later thought they'd fail right. Clay is all about making smoke right. And when they had a shot at it ever won't became very fearful it almost constantly can happen. I think we're happening that's happy in general I can't distance gonna happen. We didn't really intend for it to happen. We intended to make no when I see we listened CEOs right and the people on the Republican side of the fence we we intend for this to make no case. And hoops it's actually gonna come true like we prayed enough that it actually fell on our laps and realistically we realize this is gonna damage the economy over time. And it puts us in a very difficult situation who realistically we didn't really want it who is is might just might theory because I'm stunned. And in other CEOs whom I speak to on the phone are stunned. So why don't you think more CEOs have spoken out about it as you have. Well I don't think they have de lip freedoms that I happen. You know hey it takes it in out it takes a lot can stand out and he worked and and and write something like that are to speak these things easier to stay in the boardroom. We're liar on your freedoms speaking to speak different than hairs. Well you know II set out early in my career and coffee. I put you know I put a couple things in place that I think are the real ingredients to making a successful company and one in is destruction. And I'm that's who I am I'm and built to go against ingrained disturbed to. To flip over categories using as part of your currency our culture our Michael are my thinking music I'm not here to cooperate with everyone else. I'm here to do what I can't assume but I can do to change the world the world of coffee at the environment around me until I got this built into my friend. So I didn't start the year thinking about bridal it's not bad it's really didn't I shouldn't say that I didn't think around October of last year they don't have. But wind events started you know. Unfolding the way they did I realized that you know for at least for median for my sanity and for my children and my wife. That I'm gonna have to come on board room and I have to use my voice. Javier shareholders as your boardroom signed off on that are they cool with you a set breaking tradition in the find out. And let's have spoken and there's not. Now after I'm a go until some excess. I see that playing out a just curious. I think it. That there are times in the and in the development of a nation and that you are just solely a row from you know clearly. On the side of history. And this is now. And I will take on the opinions of anyone else but this is wrong. There are a lot of things wrong. And I will stand up against everything that I think is wrong and if that if that means that someone doesn't want to buy cappuccino from Maine immoral and it's just be that way. What is this one thing matter so much as pointy. Well I mean he you know this not just this one thing and it's an accumulation to mosaics making the picture that I find this disgusting. And so this is one piece of it but keep in mind you know listen I have four children from Africa. And I mean and this is. And we have. They they have their people who has been spray paint things on bathrooms about my daughter who's beautiful and words that you say I've seen this unraveling of a country. That I didn't think I lived and and I didn't think that this country just favored the rich. And his favored the you know the fluent or favored the white or favored the street or favor I didn't want to I don't want to live in a country that. So it's up up to me that you mover changes. An item of so I'm into and a contingent. You mentioned your children are sixteen to five years old age of my antagonize range and it's good rains. What aren't deep do you talk to them. About gap all of this about what you're doing now about your responsibility to speak up that you feel it's fine is not new to I didn't speak to my Cheryl is but I spoke to my children that's pressure. And almost on a daily basis. We try to help them interpret the world than a lot of times it's my even very easy for needed to digest it right. The and and I know it's very easy particularly if your if you're lucky enough you know you're lucky like I am you know I'd that. You get a company that katic pass that billion dollar market you just life is great and I should just take the man and run. But you know there's an arc to that and there are a lot of people who assistant a lot of people from a lot of different countries you know obviously pleased that. Don't look like we have to for religion's that I do have different and that you know it's left me with this kind of huge responsibility and burden to say amen non operation. You know and I'm gonna take time to explain in the world two dollar and see sometimes people. But it's times like this that good people open their mouth. I tip my kids that marched in Washington in March I know I'm I'm I'm raising some snowflakes it was for the 150 the progress of kids. But it they're also a source of energy now. He really far and so yeah you look at. What's going on in me who really this is how you grow great company right you you embrace science innovation. I like America did for all those years it we increased its. And then you embrace the little guy. And the data the everyday person if you braces like the GI bill and I don't know that the new deal if you put those two things that you make something great. I stole. And I did it my company. And adults and two great. And I turn around to realize that peep or dismantling science now. She's sciences relative to its opinion and I mean there are flat Pete people bleed from the flat earth now. And then we're not to new Bristol and organizes do it in words but not deeds. We're gonna promised the middle class that Warren it gives them a tax break. And then give someone else. And they call it that. It's just silly talk. Let me ask you about this because you are you're a successful businessman. Right you've built a successful company from the ground up you western how many cities now Yucatan or so here I even an Allstate will day in Afghanistan. You've got these draft lattes cancer and to it and their Internet anyway. Doesn't win when you look at. That's just isn't business as someone who you you talked other CEO as you talk to the people who are trying to you steer their businesses grow their businesses. If not for the incentive of tax cuts. How do you be talking about putting money back to employees ranging backing the people who built the business helping build the business. If not for something like tax cuts are similar in senate how do you get people to make those and I mean act are you asking me how I get other businesses to do the right thing or. Yes that's how I can't get Heidi didn't businesses to build their businesses the same way the east that you. How to. How about what you we with the first thing I do is I tried to inspire them by showing like move creating farms in Haiti or whether where you are we do is you he lead by shopping. Now the I don't believe that you should ever play human being less than fifteen dollars and are. Less than that is predatory and if you're not paying them insurance bureau also preying on rate so first thing I do isn't just won't do it I pay a living wage. I know that's difficult for other businesses to do. But how I end up doing is not because the government's gonna get means tax break is because I embrace ingenuity in pre science and enforcement people. If you put people to core of your business may east what happens. There are companies that do this already look at wegmans one degree grocery is one in the most competitive environments on the planet earth rate. Look at the two grocers are killing it. Right number one for me is wegmans they same policy you can look at Costco intend to be doing pretty while the crushing it. Fifteen dollars and I'm Bob if you look at. Quick stop rates you'd think convenience stores me now I can be in stores they have stupid people seven right. The don't stock options health insurance because if you put people at the center. It seems scarier right after relying on other people that are below you right but few put him at the center to crush it. I mean there are enough books out there this is entire department Harvard that's dedicated to looking at this and they're throwing it out to sit and listen. He don't have to treat your people like some kind of in public. That's like copper tin and electricity. Treat them with the eight human element you'll find the returns massive. Sleet we built and it's her country. Let me ask you that there the other complaint that we hear from a lot of business leaders is that foreign competition with but the man is significant disadvantage and so how do you is there a fair way. T even now playing field for them that then allows them to be. You know more fair and equitable towards their employees. Heidi fixed fat because that's a larger problem that goes beyond just cracked cuts are what this government can. Well when I first question I would ask anyone that was talking to me about that is I would say OK let's draw a line somewhere a bomb like management about. Right so project managers people on marketing to the department thread. Those people with NBA's there always are they have to pay these giant competitive wages. He divested chairs and the re Healy really dedicated to take care of those people with a really saying it is. Foreign investments made it hard for me to take care of the little guy. That's the only problem that doesn't seem to be a problem it's taking care of executive stuff. Which is risen at a rate that's just outrageous you're saying they're choosing where to put their choosing and on their excuses do feel their dissent Paulino if you actually made it a little bit more equitable. Right he would do it with people and of doing is they say we really got a ticker this deal that our culture and our people and but there are only really including people of a certain. Skill set that off. The federal corporation is a tape I don't move these jobs for example overseas my business will no longer survive I need to protect the business. If that if this goes under its you know thousand jobs as opposed to moving 200 jobs aren't deceived her past. We pay them. I know I'd have to I'd have to use it mean it would have to be case by case you know my ice I don't I still don't believe. That preying on citizens of this country. As has underpaid employees who will never ever be a bullet afford even the smallest thing for their family is the answer a really don't think that's the answer. I think how but tweak your model on the Dow one can you know tweak the model. Is there innovate if that scenario under which she would support. A tax cut let corporate tax cut and a 20% like strings attached story Ferris. Judy some kind what what would that be O he I fear. I would support that sort of thing when you need to really. Like goose the economy. When you're not right now he am I mean look. Does this look like an economy that needs goose in. I think a lot of people out there who would say he had economy nothing good for me right we are talking about is the deed every day person ain't right then give them a tax break your right. Re saying the same thing missing it seems to beef strange delay if you really wanna help would see someone. It passed potatoes right they're hungry so you take the ball potatoes drive down the block he sent by mail over its like why just passed and details. It's that simple but it middle class needs is tax break give them it's a one liner. So let me ask is that you get this unexpected capped rate gap this additional and a profit this poison president your brain. What what do you do with it is this is this the time that business leaders could band together to somehow create some planned to say okay it's on us now. We're gonna be responsible for investing back in our employees were gonna do things differently Tina. Bring about the kind of change that we know it's important. Right you know there may be a movement. I mean that it's it's a social don't eat it. But I would if I were asked that's for sure as a man who wrote the op Ed this idiot but he's also band together and it's the in it's it's just so hard to digest I feel like a minute dream or nightmare you know that it's. I'm having a difficult time finding bearings because dis dis is so illogical and it's so wrong that I didn't think it would really happen. But now it is happening and and idols would play again move the time is now 24810 cents on Friday December the first it looks as if it still happened things again contains. But this didn't sort of an inevitability to. We're an. You're in it. I know I went out and now I gotta think about it. You know what I would we know would be create is to do something radical like so it's trillion bucks what's there what's our. A student loans around you know national student loans about trying to he has a degree instead of doing the corporate interest forgive those. Great thing to do. Just imagine because all those now the students instead of paying those loans back the can buy cars and homes and more food more more coffee to wish to scoff. And the consumer what did and it ends I you know has gone with. The but they did giving student loans at I feel like a collective cheers went up across the young America but that was it when that you know would someone else you know said. Mention that now what could be that something new do we we all call back I crazy. Read but instead of giving the trillion dollars the students did this to look we're gonna give its corporate America. And you know it eventually will become dividends in the coming public reinvested in other stocks in the rebel. So whiny. Why come out in this way nappy mentioned you know kind of wanting to stand up at this particular point in American history. You could go about you do a lot of philanthropy at rice already built into your business as part of your business model on the side personally. You could continue to impact that seamer kind of change on the local level on the international level as you have why not him like a public way now we'll. I think there's multiple reasons for me are always has to be kind of hodgepodge reasons it one of in my remember is that. If he you know I look at some these leaders that think like I do. Along the East Coast and they have this exposure where the other team. Accuse them of not understanding business. And there they are like defenseless. Whereas other side they have everybody in the stands and goes yeah house you know I'm a businessman in that guise of businessmen were all doesn't. And you get accused of not understanding this now but save other analysts are senator Bob Casey for example right great senator out of Pennsylvania. It has never been in business. Great leader and he op. That this is just simply silly pants this what we're doubtless this tack right. And he gets this because attacked from all these different angles saint what are you know you don't moaning about business you've never been a CEO who. So I realize that these guys need a friend. Who's in business and so I stood up for them and said. Well I I'm a CEO. And let me just tell you what it is. You wouldn't believe how mean emails I received from other CEO saying here here. Right on brother. Real old yeah. Because everyone does know it they do. It's like the king has no clothes but I was gonna say that probable to slow farm boys in of a point that out finally do you think any of those other CEOs would speak out publicly. I guess that everyone has their own thing you know would you courage and even speak. I've been trying you have and what's the response been ultimately a year because it was shareholders might saying I think a lot of their public. A personality is owned by the company. And days they really need to make sure that they don't compromise for the company but there are certain leaders and you'll see in the west us like Silicon Valley they're more like me. And what's extra rather tweeted immediately writes like everybody they just don't have the same kind. I think I'm maybe that's what it is on the West Coast guy and I've come to the East Coast I just won't receive as much as. People expect. Two confessed. Thank possibility that this in Philly and deliberately that warriors fear and it dragon and actually. Get a summons but the cinematic and yet knowing you bend your knees Eagles game rant and now I have. Got to fight so why he. I guess you're talking to people private the you're doing what you can by speaking out and trying to spread the word is and you believe it to be true. Do you have hope that you're gonna change anything you know the lawmakers and the lawmakers want to DO yeah and the people who actually have the power to change things and people money and that's you got a bottleneck again and again to do you have hope that you can change. But I do for a couple different reasons one is because I think that. Where and whenever that's in the you know that's the air right now it's creating people who loosening it will will dissipate people's sober up eventually. Particularly if you get art. Right so you you think this is great reading it this is the means in three years that under this. Existing plan to three years people in peace. Or other going to be pain. And when you feel that pain number two is that everything and have ever been able to accomplish that it's worthwhile my life took time. So in I was the first man in history to walk from the edge of Antarctica the South Pole right. So now isn't it horrifying yet it was. But here's the point is that it didn't happen in the day man didn't happen two days is fourteen hours a day all alone pulling 275 pounds up. 141000 feet across just trudging and trudging and falling in the blown over it's harder blows there up and just keep going to go and eventually. Think it's simple and you set a world record tips that are older or have we added whether it's from this idea that a well this yeah that's throw off the access to up. Should be but the media he reminds me of that and sometimes when I enter. You know that you know I should I don't wanna see a race but almost like path like this one I'm reminded of that. That this isn't something and I think packages screaming down treaties and over. Non raid to do the winners the last guy standing panel I'm gonna be one of those last stand and I'm just just continue go. And I think that over time. People just get more and more sober and they start seeing things. To that it's more in line with the truth and reality. Steve never shied away from a new challenge now this is clearly very important to you right now are you going to run profits now. Now no plan to know him never hired a political and I told my wife she's because yet while he's my civic engagement to do whatever yeah. My wife rush and an animation you hired. We're expert company and every single client at a former clients on their website is either political addicts to get Republicans. Franconia. Who nominee I writes checks that's what it and you're the one nonpolitical client that's right it. I'm gonna tell announcements you want to make it at a higher home now and I told my life but run profits and there's only one case that would. Zombie apocalypse. Is like ninety in this left and I got a gun okay pub get I will be a leader forgot how old do what I can to be leader. That the various beside him. Exactly it. A I admire people who are in office support them I want to be part of yet infrastructure that that it helps people in their careers and get in into office and do the right thing. I'm just not. It's not made this the smell a made for. And the thing is absolutely. If you separated me from my company I think I would trouble and I. I need her I mean I need her she's everything had to Alter its 24 years no one another 24. I wanna be pushed out of my company in a wheelchair will blanket on me by yelling at someone this is just like it was a copies to. Did that that's who I am. But I want to use that you know I think there are other great business leaders who effect chains like cooked and you know you can even look at some of the guy's nor again who say you know line. If your leader than it's a wider scope and sometimes sister company. There is the other neighborhoods of Philadelphia need me and I'm gonna make sure and there there are schools that they did don't have support so what am I gonna do file leader. And you know you probably not if if people were seen in DC right now you wouldn't even hear my voice that would matter. How wouldn't matter. Did they wouldn't need me just break now I think that the general dialogue just needs. May be me and the reason I say that it's because they think this by about three or four CEOs watches it's yeah MET. I'm sick some this is to create. What do you hope your kids and watching you go through this. Well I think that. You know I always there when I say it to a life is and I want I want our kids to see dad hunt and kill. Which scan of the gross way of saying ethic takeover hunters we don't have guns. But no you go out and you you provide you bring home re this is something important mind to stock and money up talking about. The you're engaged in life that your you know you you know you have this short space of time on this planet you make it worthwhile. And the only way you can make that worthwhile as is by. Tallying up the good that you provided and you brought to other people. That's it so this is where I hope they seem. And there their they're proud of me many. And I'm proud of them like it really means kids and and I want them to seat you know you don't have to roll over. You know these are you GOP in little kids that get run over some times we talk about race at home and they get. I just tell me know what you it this is not about being around Ron operates about this is a call to arms for you not to hate that person to make changes. This is what you do and number. I was even having fundraisers come received my six year old z.'s Dan. I don't. Even watch is a I swear to god we watch your news chuck I got us there is she's six and he's watching the news. He's just like and meet. Life is more than just. You know amassing. Wealth for yourself. Wealth has measures and learned from way it's what impact and really what he didn't do. Mr. coffee cup that is exactly. It worked at back and you. Did you hear what the time it is 250 eight's. We're ending our conversation if everything changes in the tax plan after this were not responsible for Al camp knowing about it if it dies. Then I'll come back and we'll let you know the conference of champagne it was party conflict with the copy and watches party that. Todd Carmichael thank you so much for being here appreciate it. Thank you for listening to uncomfortable. If you like what we're doing take imminent leave us the rating and a quick review it helps others define these conversations. And we really just want to hear a terrific. Plus we made it easy just click on the link in the description of this app says. If you have an idea for a show topic for a cat Lina and they're used or tweet acme. After the baathist that's an aide WA. TI FDA and quarry use the hash tag uncomfortable talk. Uncomfortable with the production of ABC news new episodes post every 2 weeks on Tuesday morning. I'm on in the five thanks for listening.

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