Transcript for 10% Happier Road Trip: Meditation in 'Modern Warriorship'
They welcome to a special edition of the numbers and happier podcast it's day four of our. Deeply absurd. National. Meditation tour. On this day Jeff Warren who is the resident meditation teacher on this on this trip and Jeff Meyer are arriving at a little bit of an existing location is at Virginia Military Institute. Neither of us eligible to serve he's Canadian. And I had a checkered past so in. There's that but these folks are qualified to serve professor map German. And professor holly Richardson and we are doing sending fascinating hearing what you might imagine to be. An inhospitable. An environment for meditation they are teaching it to the cadets over to talk about. The kind of reaction they're getting why they're doing it all that stuff. Thanks guys. Welcome thank you. That we share you just describe for us if you want what you do some. To college professor ethical department and and teach leadership class and this master certain class called modern warrior ship. And and that class presidency. And teaching them to be. Or is it just to say vehemently does the prepared to help others. Medications that he meant to pollute the reason for that you can with students for modern warrior ship they think you're gonna engine meditate. I I do mention in the course description just in case that might come off but it doesn't and phase three that doesn't interstate bears that. And holly. What what your what your role here. Yes I am in physical education. And I teach a my illness classes since the second semester of are mindful in this class we follow the curriculum of what they're doing and you mass Massachusetts medical school so. Are they just just. Explain it folks that's where they really invented Michael is based stress reduction and I meant invented by this towering figure I think in American life John Cabot. Molecular biologist who really came up with a version of meditation and stripped out. The metaphysical claims in the religious practices and just gave you the mind. Yes absolutely and and that's curriculum that we're following his his curriculum so. We we've. Had a class this fall we have a second class this spring so we're excited to to bring this BMI. So I have so many questions about. How this goes down here but I would I wanna searched by. In drawing out a little of your personal story so that how to move. Start meditating. It started in go to school at that course. It. Essentially about a petition my influence. And and a pastor there and written before the classic. Red with a optional readings and took and always been looking for. How to. Be more productive and effective kind of mentally and two of them. And you have a military background. Now a guessing that you can teach here and get the in the outfit without actually having served in the military. Right most faculty or not do not at military background. And but most Fulton the earned uniform they receive a rank and everything and militia. Insists it's kind of more to enable the tradition the military's mission to continues can be and. What about it what about the practice meditation why did you feel you need it what was going on here. And I think its north just the search for how can be more productive and efficient. And and in. Decreased stress increased concentration in this interview that I'm and a graduate schools with the things non. We're looking to community cutlass there's none out there's just there's just trying to how can it be as. Awfully functioning as possible terms it's getting work done. With them. How how would you say it's done. By I just I find that I'm far more mentally deficient. In terms of in our productive when I meditate and take the you'd like to because you know I don't won't be as productive or. Good at what I'm doing. Think do you think it helps you stay on task they exercise of trying to focus on one thing I would imagine your breath. And again in las starting again getting lost earnings and just really helped it trains the mind to be right there with order with whatever task of trying to perform. Right there it's on a much less scattered. And if I do find it. In a day I'm kind of tired depleted that's going to due to mark them on to another apartment Asian session. Punish that and get back to work. Oh yeah. Hollywood. As undergrad I was taught transcends that dental meditation. And did that for a few years. And can walked away from it fell out of of that practice. And then. About three years ago I eight they can. Reading John Cabot Sen and taking a look at the bringing research. Possibilities of my goodness so I've. Come back to it and might practices now study in. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted Ted bring it to be in mind that I was getting benefits I was. I'm reading about soldiers. Being deployed in coming back from deployment. And how my infamous. Does in fact. Studies suggest that there's really good evidence that. This is a tool that they can use to help with post traumatic stress disorder and some of the challenges they come back and. What it can for you personally slighted you what you want well first I think. When I was twenty I probably one it to his seat Nirvana but kitten decades later. I eight. Felt like I was that. Mohr I was reacted to things I was. The kind of losing my cool little bit more than. I wanted to and my eyes started again. And it's really helped to calm you call me focus me. I laugh more a feel like I am more authentic person because of that meditation practice. And you have a connect. No I'm it at citizen soldiers so. Act technically you we're in them military that Virginia military and militia. But we are civilians. You. To go down and eight inches junior both of you but we certainly wouldn't started when you came to this environment. And said are right let's meditate how to fit correct that. Well Karen I carefully. Hats so. I guess that great news is there's so much. Research out there and the brain research that really gives evidence that this does. Change the brain it does help. And this environment for the cadets. Stress is endemic. It's it's from base and so when I first got here I was very concerned about the welfare of cadets and its other faculty are. And and I just realized stress will be here. We it will be here in that cadets life. So. I flipped the way I was looking at the cadets health and I fat. About Michael Lewis and bringing that tool. To that cadets so they could withstand. There first year he. Year here or as say. Senior they you know have. Where with all and come in that sense of peace. Getting everything done they need to gradually so it was kind of a roundabout ways that I felt like. Students could benefit. And Matt what do you did you get funny looks when you when you said air wanted to meditation. Well so I teach a leadership course that required about cadets. Because the major threat it kind of makes. Majors and and and in that leadership course. I want to have a commitment efficient arm but I was worried. How they react so for states called it. Mind fit training. To pension training which is some ice more accurate description of what they're doing in terms of outcomes. I didn't mention education I got no resistance. And I realize it. They didn't really care that there is so it so from then from after the first master of school limitation upon no resistance at all them and keep many people. Report. Finding a benefit from it. I offered the computers extra credit and you know some choose to do it and those who do often are part benefits and and then and then and now that entity in the modern warrior ship you know day making new little more than their with they're getting into that though knows. They either take it or with a weird professors are back guy gets after guys with meditation and a. You definitely. Spam this M interest in Beverly said about the post traumatic stress disorder known some of the research that showing there. And I'm wondering if you've had you know through here there's been more anymore discussions around matter happened and how you how you think what that piece. And that's a great question and in our. In the mind from this class. We we talk about different populations that could benefit and so we spend. A fair amount of time with post traumatic stress what it is. And how the application of my illness. Four that. That diagnosis. And certainly. That pet deaths in. I would Tim most all cadets are aware of post dramatic. We've had in the past. Veterans return. Being. Re redeployed from PMI so. It's it's on people's mind not so much now but certainly. 788. Years ago so again. They know it and some have that experience to. And I'm just how do you think and it helps that I wouldn't it is going on in the meditation itself that. Actually can make a difference I have some thoughts Toobin underscoring how you frame it. Brain so. In terms of it. That signs and symptoms of that post traumatic stress disorder. It allows that individual. To become present debt. To be it to come. It's become still president aware of us a small thing as the breath. And changed. That mindset of fat individual who is. Is an. Talents with post traumatic so I think it's it's. Switching the channel so to speak. And the switch in the mindset of you know the video of being. Back in conflict and and me lysine you know I'm here. I have my breath. I'm. I'm okay. So I think that that's certainly the the first and immediate thing that happens. And then. Again. In terms. Being more relaxed. Lester reacted. In terms of their emotions. Kind of dampening down own that. And and against the highs in the Lowe's. Kind of bringing those together. So I think that that's. Certainly. Aren't. Benefits that. Have been out there and that soldiers have and use them. Now it's amazing me as you can apply after the fact after they've been in combat they had those experiences but it also client before the fact. New you can begin to do that training which prepares you in terms of the resilience. And at absolutely absolutely and I guess that's the beauty of it. In terms of deployment redeployment but and everybody has the capability. Of of doing units in terms. Breathing and and mad at meditating. But it's the practice that is challenging. And and also I mean there's there's there's a researcher looking at how. Meditation practice and soldiers pre deployment can teach them skills aren't as and so that. They are. That's affecting things always afterwards. One issued its product that there's. Military options stress inoculation. Put units restorations and the cleats. The kind of resources you need to low interest deal with stress and then and you go out and your your depleted and handset situation if you combine. Meditation practice commend the mental fitness component. It in Panamax as a buffer and helps you so you can benefit as much as possible from that stress inoculation that that can be viable. But also leaving it with appliances resources. Hopefully you don't get the fifty point. You. And so you see that resilience building up and and in using it in your students and yeah and it it'll be exciting to take a look at. That's doing the violations were. In came back to that they are using this practice Islam from their from their cores. We have. A member of the rifle team and it. She uses it. It during her her rifle. Team practice but also in competition so. Yeah we're seeing it being being used and we talk about as many. Many seconds swear if they have to go wind and Steve the comet on two for May be had to merit tour. Or punishment. That again they have their breath they have that that presence of breathing 35 times going in and and having a more productive. Conversation with someone who's handing out. Punishment or demean. Is the focus of your research. And then you and indicate a little bit about me more about what modern worship means in the role of marvelous with a. Editor. In the path of the dead. Things related to an. Problem solving. Activity. Says that well being. And also social things and arranged it and and changed. And creating social change and a content across these that within people and then social crises things that produce kind of desirable social change. And so from my perspective. A warrior is one too. Creates. Change some sort the group. You can Trace the world war two and creating this disorder and change and so sincere changing some. Undesirable process. And so backing. Being in a military context but the way I'm thing about it off to be in business sector and a home. If it's created some sort of change in a process for the benefit of others as helping component well. And warrior ship. The way I'm. Talking about it is is the mental and physical training discipline train. To allow you to be more effective wars to allow you to be mentally and physically. Ready and able when the time comes to help others whether it's of this systematic kind of leaving a big change in organization or it's just telling someone needs help on the street of a sudden being mentally and physically ready for that. It is it is in your broader definition. Culturally acceptable in the military is sometimes you hear people in the military describe their essentially as killing people blowing up right yeah. I got so I don't know if you might have different definitions of worship I think that. It is often discussion. At books to train. To teach meditation practiced this suit. Killing others. That may sound my perspective. It. If you're more mentally and physically. Kind of the mental training all eyes you'd be better at making decisions acting quickly your reaction times. In my mind it and it allows you to do your job better which hopefully result in his few casualties as. Possible. So. I'd rather them is in the precious and requires that sort of action maybe is mentally sound as possible. I spent some time with a woman who was training Marines. And meditate and she said she'd taken a lot of blowback from traditional Buddhist saying. You're you're making better baby killers but she's had not making people look kill fewer babies rec room. What kind what would you say is the biggest obstacle that New York dad's face in either starting meditation or maintaining. I think. In general one of the biggest challenges to any new practice. I fail at year's resolutions. Things like that and in the recent look at habit formation and there's certain conditions and which are more likely to form a habit. Mr. shows for example that. We intend that we've we have a resolution right we have this intention in the year to do something about it meditation. Mr. shows though that. Structures are responsible for for intention. Are different from those that govern habitual action to just because you have intentionally saying to them it's gonna become a habit. In fact. Whether become to have it has to do with textual cues if you want to meditate but. It's extremely inconvenient to meant that you don't have the space you don't know when you can do it even if you really wants its not gonna happen so so one of the first. Topics that we discussed my class was received on how to form action how to reduce it. And so identifying some kind of contractual Q that occurs regularly that you kind of pare that habit with. And so for example. Might cadets day or meditate. In the morning for fifteen minute period and also five minutes meditation right before that you there can work on homer. That figure what thing that they do every day. Did you have to do you work at some point right so they can tie the meditation to that and hopefully even when they leave this class as the BQ that'll. Prop this behavior and the key piece with have it is. If it is a habit has not require. You do your will power. Because you just do it right so people think it takes about will power to start anew to exit to do's new. Practicing meditation while wanted to have a you don't doesn't take action rockets that keep me to make it. Habit because otherwise you comprehend the will power to make yourself do you selling it is difficult rights were trying to make it not a difficult this kind of automatic. What them what what else Kate saying more about out of formation what other. Useful tips and tricks have you fair. And and the reasons that the taco about so that the key piece key pieces are. Have formation requires some repetitive act requires. Can textual cues they can be a time day beat rhyming here and people you speak to. And and then entered the human reward arms and is ideal. If the goal is that the the habit be. Intrinsically motivated not doing just for some reward. Yes flick bombs. It machines you don't get. You don't get pay back every time Wright says that Benjamin ward the kind of you're not doing it for the money you're doing it for the game because you don't get many times that they can't can't be actions Pittman and so. So would meditation for example I think the rewards aren't inherently of the airmen. After some meditations you feel. At the summit is that feel I'm. I'm in his unproductive. And others you know the filled more calm but. And so that this kind of big changes in my ability to perform. Are some humans that kind of satisfies that requirement. And then you know trading act to at a particular time. Of day. And then also one good strategy is if you have an existing habits. Tightly to that yeah which is whether homer. Homer as pact that then you're good. Yeah this is. Absolutely fascinating as I think a lot of this to end and Ryan look at friends of mine students and who successfully and a meditation practice it's because it's become automated. In right his role in a bed is the time they do they think of it is brushing the brushing their teeth or something it's just they've made it into. But he's had something really interesting to how does make sure I understood it which is that actually intermittent rewards of meditation is part of what might make it work. As a habit. In the sense that you sometimes there's a feeling of it being wow I feel phenomenal to of the great but other times you meditated you might still feel a bit scatter it's not like a perfect guarantee all the time. The year are you saying that bat that instruments he actually can be. Part of and one that helps that knee in practice because they would. Yes that's that's it and never. I'm out of my understand of the reassert. Based that in this thing because yet if if you're. If you're only for those kind of X amazing benefits for medication and then you know. He didn't have a few times then they stop right again but but if it's if you know that it sister in Edmonton. And then in not enough and stop it if there few meditation sessions reminds the filth that. That's so important and it sucks and purposeful to teach. Give people applaud people understand the big picture of a practice is that it's not going to be all you know you know cards and roses every day that may never be right back but even like the really nice. Juicy feeling absorb and feeling com. And there's an analogy one teacher uses that he says he compares it to exercise but the compares it to running. And he says you know in rock and running. There's the that there is the reason you're doing it which is better cardiovascular health then there's the effects of running. And sometimes make a running and feel invigorated at times you feel breathless and exhausted at a time you feeling pain. Every you run you're building towards better car and ask your house so you can't depend on the actual fact of what's happening in the run. And Ted to tell you anything about whether you're getting that resolved and it's the same with her meditation you could have these wonderful experiences but really you're doing for better sort of social so in the cycle mental emotional. Now I'm glad you said that because for me personally that it I don't judge the quality of my prior try not to judge upon my practice based on the quality of my last six. I basin on like am I less of an idiot over all and that is I think. That's where that's the reward for me that I continue to get from it and that's right keep. And so what do your students say about the road when it if they try to articulate the reward overall. You know the kind of what how they see a change in what what are some of the ways you what are the what are they say would you here. Well I think that that students. In my class would go back to just. I'd at. Something that had happened in the day just an incident with and we've made to alert but get comment on door this being able to. Step back and not be on that treadmill of what if what if what if that that they Doocy practical. Applications. In in their life. And but I also. A kind of work them toward. Some place in their life. That they. 12. Have made more authentic presence was or less stress win the war he noted today. Have them think about eight purpose. As you know from the narrowing it down to a specific need that they they themselves half. And then. Can. Apply that practice. In this specific way and let that practice grow. Four. Kind of overall. Mind body benefits so that's. That's when philosophy community an example it comes to. Work. Yeah so and it was interesting. The class that I I I like we had. A number of different cadets believe had commissioning cadets we had seniors we had athletes and that again that. That athletes certainly use it. Before you know before a game or before a practice and again. Their journals and I have been journal. In. Regarding their reflection on nap practice. Which again helps. Two I think maintained that let them see. Just maybe the ups and downs of that practice and it meant it may not. Be. In mind. In. Blowing one date but. That they're more focused. On on the game or. You know they take the coaches. Criticism or positive feedback in a better way of more so I think that. That could that's that I have. It's it's it's they want specific things to happen. But also. I ate I can enter to use those practices. For that reason. Said the guiding. That the core of our mission on this though road trip we're doing here is to try to figure out what's stopping Google from meditating. War what's best not to practice. You mentioned before just that obstacle setting up a habit. What else is there what else do you think gets in the way of people starting. In this context here. And had taken practice. I think I'm and there are. Social. Mean you know use if that. We tend to focus on the personal finance plan wise in this prison doing something but you know if house taking exhibition environment and some but it polity now. Phoning just cut them and but. But doubts that. That's one thing or even just you know expect that others but it may not be doing it and even even if not kind of against that. Still not in an environment that's encouraging which is why that out of formation in and kind of trade in the habit is so critical. Without that you know I'm there's so many other activities here in. Here and to that at times very structured their fair here it is much like try to explain that meditation is not. Shouldn't you it is losing time meditating. Makes you so much more immensely productive and efficient that your actions gain time. But what do you say to people who say oh people or make economy I think I'm weird if I do this thing what what what's the practical. Advice you give those. But in. The modern warrior should contacts back status conscious than yesterday. Part of being someone who is preparing to kind of make changed you know when changes necessary mean. It means there you're going to be going against a lot of people so I view that is wonderful practice though you know if you can't. Do something at the bulls meditating and and UK with the fact that others might think it's little weird. Then you know and didn't you know you're not really getting to the training it so so I'm action to be having them do stuff that they'll make them. Comp glass elevator turning around its has arrived there where that they're going to be called a wuss if they meditate your Sanyo actually Euro was if you now. That is as I mean you can't meditating and deal with the fact that there you know. Make and that is such a minimal threat as far as the pound grand. Scale yet hardly warriors going against stream that so that's as one another up to practice going through. Went up for you what you weigh in on this issue at all which is a what do you think of this of the cadets you're dealing with what are the major obstacles that actually doing this practice and would just there's a great. Quote from this guy we're gonna top that later on our road trip who says. And we know the medicine works we just can't achieve its. I I think tests would tell you. I don't have time. I don't have time throughout the day. To to start a practice first while they need to know how to so I think. You know courses. Are so important you know basic mine illness. Fifteen weeks ten weeks. I think it's critical to to have and instructor. Really setting the stage and providing evidence. That this can how and and the practice. And it taking the group through that practice but also requiring. As odd is it as simple as that may seem homework. In terms of coming back reflecting on Nat. And and putting that at. Part of your practice. I would say time they this this image of I don't have time. And then also again I guess it the misunderstanding. Of what this. What would this in mind from us. And then I think another important part. Is this role models. Having role models. Having populations that they can look to. Look toward. And snake fish you eat you know I didn't know that. Coach meditated in no. You know the Marines were some of the first to adopt that. That tool so it's giving them context and. W point eight points or that some of the coaches on campus or the Marines are doing better than that left him hiked its athletes. At yes act I would say athletes pro pro athletes. And again there are a number of faculty and staff who have been deployed. That. Have come back and they practiced so. They are great guest speakers so. People that the cadets he is and someone they'd like to emulate so I think that's important. Answers and you know we've we've insert attacks on our lives that we call them the secret fears that the government and we may have. New water a new way to frame one of them which is that people are gonna think I'm weird. If I do this and that seems to be the big. Here are one of the big fears here and they've these guys a couple of ways. You know one. If you know to re frame it as like you know appeared if you're actually getting mentally tough and you it will withstand that here pressured to. Look there are tons of tough not weird folks who are doing this you can do it too. At absolutely and I was thrilled when. 1 of the central administrators. Showed up at our mindful list meditation it's like you know so. You know he does say he bought into it. You know and he he's a tough. He's he's as tough falters so. Yeah and we got a picture Stonewall Jackson over air and who used the Atlantans like Apple's. So I wonder if he practiced. Doesn't look like. Have a question of innocence on me I said. Which is. You know we're technology that there is kind of warrior spirit anyway against the stream then and that can really how do you mean by billions for so that's a classic. Determine which one which is used in buddhism say. The commencement everyday life is to just continue tumbling along on eating this to go along to go along to kind of keep ratcheting it up. Actually stop and pause and take stock of your life and decide to not go along with it's considered to be going against the momentum. The culture and so if there's something kind of inherently. You know. There is a warrior quality. Very much. So. So I act and that's really important to emphasize by the same time you. The reason it's hard to do is because all of the contextual cues from the environment are to say don't do it. In art it's not important so to have a kind of environmental rapper where it's okay is quite important as the people say about having communities it was for example. At once of once a week you can sue the community and it kinda normalized it so do you have anything years getting in and around that lake kind of regular weekly that it. Issued an apparent that we we was I'm Eric coordinating. Michaels meditation. Thing twice a week on isn't there's this forty minutes of and a faculty staff and students. And hips so people are welcome accountable. For instruction they need it. And limitation. And. It is an air quality of warrior ship though to the actual practice you are. You were facing that the Eden. The insane torrent of your own mind and you're willing to sit there. And deal with it and every time you get lost in the chaos here -- elect. I notice I'm lost and start again that takes sir spirit worship as you define it. Wreck and and there are many imitations editions that we'll talk about how you know. Medication isn't this soft kind of fluffy thing isn't in your facing your fears your facing stresses head on leaning into them. And and it's it's giving you the tools to do that more effectively and not. Swept away by them but it certainly. And involves. That process and aunts and it's always advocate. To him to be best able to help others meet for up yourself and and that even that. It requires. This axis warriors. I love that you emphasized that because that's something that's so refreshing me hear me wanted to criticisms of meditations that it self indulgent. To frame it as actually it's just it's. It's a basics its sanity. To be able to help yourself become more efficient helping others. You know you get clear and sane Aron and out of from out of there that's for you extend your helping and it will be much more effective in. Well and it brings up. It a tradition of oh. Mindful kindness you know loving kindness meditation. And it in terms of different launches are different. And phrases that that. We all could. Or teach people are. It certainly instructors. So there are different lines and then use that. You could pull its two. Really pull out that. Compassionate warrior again. Let me just evident if I'm that presents at some equipment with loving kindness meditation is it sounds. Hopelessly syrupy I was deeply resistant to when I first heard about it in an actually in practice is his eyes I often describe it as. Valentine day Valentine's Day with a machete cheers broke because you basically are sitting there. Envisioning a succession of people people you love people who have problems with people you don't even know and your systematically sending them good knives. And again I think a lot of skeptics the Billick that sounds pretty annoying. But actually is enormous amounts north there's a significant amount science suggests. That not only does it have a lot of health benefits than it actually change the way you are in the world. So I wonder. Any edged given what you just heard about my skepticism about loving kindness meditation Heidi introduced today at Virginia and Virginia militaries that the there's carefully. So. Very carefully so yeah. So old and I must admit I haven't tried that loving kindness with cadets. I have tried. And a Montrae that. Ticked up con. Take now on as a famous Vietnamese and mass yeah. Yeah and just the simple. You know I'm at peace. You know I'm still. And I am here. So. That's as close as I've gotten to loving kindness. To confess but. That's you know I bring that into my practice and then. It's it's help so. We'll see if I can. If I can go against the grain now. Tend to bring that. That type of meditation here. Just bring you back before we have sensitive your times will as we head toward the conclusion of this. He's to bring back to it our mission here which is really just ferret out what are these. As we column secret fears that if stopping people from meditating. I wonder you didn't raise this may not be an issue but one of the things that there was an op. Obstacle for me and one and we hear this at the 10%. Happier apt company and we that we have. We hear this from people and from customers which is a fear that meditating might erode your page. And especially in a military analyst at very we have to be tough you know in your your job ultimately may be to go out and kill people and and and blow things up. That if you meditate you might become too soft actually do that or to compete against her peers is that something me either view. Encountered. Really. Interest thing. I would. I would look at is it different way effect that that. You. You have that focus you you have a pinpoint it kind of focus. But like an arrow that's that's how I I see that in terms of not so much losing. Your. Your adage that really focusing adage it just like focusing that edge to two what you do whether it's warfare or. The Wall Street's. I would. I disagree with some. Okay will I totally disagree it's just sickening my whole our whole mission is to. Identify clearly what the technologies are at work that are preventing people from doing this thing that would probably be good for them. And to knock them down I don't think you reduce your it but I think he did it is it is a fear out there. Yeah and I think it's probably fear more. The people have. Who are not don't really know meditation is to me that's one of the prom the baggage that the word meditation. So you know I never just talk a meditation without. First explaining. All the the rationale what it's doing it and so if I think people realize that it's. You know holding their attention and their mind thing happened using that would how to possibly. It you lose your head you know I think understand meditation practice and schools. It's critical now is explain that they're different types imitation was different objectives this one has a subjective. Oh. That's. Phenomenal in the it has terrific. Thank you guys really really great to send we really appreciate organized spend some time with some cadets. They proceeds. Shall we try to slip incidents Covert loving kindness. I would advertising risk Smith yeah they might get hit with a debt payment itself and I. Yes yeah. Others get them to visualize van in a row with with a blow dryer blowing his hair back. Rim and in love they'll I like that. Up. I wrap this. Thank you very much for any of you hated it so everybody watching is that 10% at your meditation or continues we're on day. Four or more going for twelve days you can follow us as me at a press country can follow our art our itinerary on my FaceBook page. And if you want to learn how to meditate for free it's 10% happier the app. You can download it in need apple App Store we can get starter for free if you don't have an apple device you can go to times happier not. And really appreciate if you like the I guess you can check out the pot war mutton anymore podcasts. On anywhere packed podcasts are available and and if you have any questions for me personally I tend to answer them on literacy in any act and the Harris. That's all of the Berkeley and needed to do. We'll see next. Thank you Nancy and extend his unit and it's really well don't think I think they are what you do. And a well thanks for it if you are us that against the stream path.
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