Transcript for Valerie Ramirez Mukherjee could be 1st woman in Congress from her Illinois district
And it's all across the country. We'll be right back. Tamron: Welcome back to "Tamron hall" from a temporary location not far from our set where we hope to be back very soon. I want to bring in Rachel Bernstein. She specializes in cults. Thank you so much for joining me. We are talking this hour about master manipulators. India was indoctrinated with this nxivm philosophy for 7 years. He has the docuseries where she talks a lot about that in a time span of 7 years. You can in some way, just erase someone's memory of their life before, right? Right. You can. Seven years actually is plenty because sometimes people can't remember who they really are and who their family was and if they can trust the people outside anymore and what they think or what they believe anymore. So, seven years is actually a long time. Tamron: I think we have a clip from India's documentary that I would like to share with our audience and get some perspective on the younger women who were tortured there. Let me play. We had to agree to accept 100% feedback when we signed up for one of these courses. And I remember in one of the coursecome I was these pink converse and the man who was running my group made a comment to me. He said, "Every time you wear those pink converse, all I can think about is You." I felt totally humiliated and embarrassed. Like I had done sothing wrong. Tamron: What is this component of these cults? Is that a manipulation of power? Right. What happens when it's involved is it is about needing to give over your power, proving your allegiance by doing it. And sometimes about sex, but usually it's about the leader getting glee, unfortunately sociopathic Lee from seeing how much they can put you through, how vulnerable they can make you, and what theycan get you to agree to do that you would have never done before. Tamron: I knowthe Jeffrey Epstein case is very different from this but what they have in common, Rachel, is they are enablers. They are people who allow these master manipulators to grow in power, grow in confidence, and they thrive almost in plain sight. Rachel: Right. A lot of these master manipulators are so charming that it's the narcissistic playbook. They know how to come across where they are something dumb like someone should listen to. They have an ability to make you feel like you have been specially chosen by them. Tamron: It is incredible and it has been a powerful week to see the 121 year sentence. You think in world of cults like that, what happened to Keith raniere resonates with these people? Rachel: What I find so interesting about the 120 years and sending him to jail forever, I don't think he is learning anything about it. I think he is feeling that he is this kind of crucified figure who people just don't understand really how wonderful he is. So, I don't think he learned the lesson. But I cannot tell you how important this moment has been, not only for former members of nxivm, but for former members of so many cults who have contacted me crying about this verdict. Tamron: Rachel, thank you so much for joining us. And a new episode of "Seduced," inside the nxivm airs this Sunday. And coming up, a successful TV producer exploited by his own best friend. How she convinced him that she was Irish royalty and manipulated him out of nearly $100,000 of his money. We'll be back with his cautionary story after the Tamron: We are talking to people who were exploited by those they trusted. These were smart, successful individuals who say they never saw it coming. Like my next guest, Jonathan Walton on shows like "K Ta tank," he was betrayed by someone who thought was his best friend. She turned out to be a master manipulator. She was after one thing, his money. Jonathan's nightmare began in 2013 when he struck up a friendship with a seemingly trustworthy neighbor. Over the next year, the two formed what Jonathan felt was a genuine bond, often ending their call with I love you. She appeared to live a life of luxury, wining and dining him at fancy restaurants while name dropping friends. She was a descendant of Irish royalty with a $29 million family fortune. Then, everything changed one day in 2014 when she called from jail claiming her cousin falsely accused her of all crime to get her portion of the inheritance. Over the course of the next few years, she claimed her bank account was broken and borrowed over $90,000 claiming to. Back after. He suddenly realized every thing was alive. Her bank accounts were not frozen. There was no wealthy Irish family. She wasn't even Irish. Jonathan, thank you foroining us. I have talked to people who have had these things happen. It is never easy to tell. Times it comes with embarrassment or shame. How do you feel when you look back at this now? You know, so many emotions, Delmar. I was manipulated or over the course of ten years. I love her as much as any gay man could love a woman. She was a master of disguise. She changes her appearance from city to city, crime to crime. She doesn't look like the same woman. She convinced me. She had props, you know. She would show me texts and emails from her barristers in Ireland. She kind of bonded with me because I was having a difficult time with my family because I was gay. I loved her immediately because she was so kind and she wined it was all leading to the extraction for money from my bank account. I just had no idea. If you don't know the signs come you have no idea. Tamron: But I often wonder, when they first ask you for money, do your five senses go off? Or is it a nickel and dime how does it present when they ask for the money? Jonathon: Well, if they are good con artists, no. She did not ask me for money until 14 months into our friendship. By then, I loved her. It was $4200. Here's the thing. She paid me back the next day, right? Tamron: Right. Jonathon: They always let you wet your beak a little. They pay you back. I immediately thought, oh, she is a woman of her word. Her paying me back the next day opened the floodgates. I felt comfortaboaoaning H more and more money. She was a damsel in distress. Evenhough I'm a man, I'm a I was just trying to help her. Tamron: They know how to get into your head. If you are good, you don't notice it. They don't notice the ones that are good. You started to uncover this LI live. When you started digging in, I mean, did your stomach just Dr drop? Johnathan: It was devastating. Went home and I collapsed and my husband's arms. I just knew she conned me at that point. I didn't know I was going to find victims all over the world. Tamron: I want to stand by because I'm going to come back and talk about how you found those 44 victims and how you finally found justi. Stick around with us. This live show, we are winging it. For 40 years you've helped make-a-wish,
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