Transcript for Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump are Pres. Trump's 'Achilles heel': 'Kushner Inc.' author
Do. And. Don't mean. Welcome to the investigation and Keira Phillips here along with my co host and head of our investigation team Chris blast so. Russert joined by our senior investigative producer Matt moss and an on today's episode we're going to be talking with New York Times best selling author and investigative reporter Vicky ward her latest work. Kushner theme greed ambition corruption. Extraordinary story of Jared Kushner and Yvonne could trump. Hits the shelves today from saint Martin's press Vickie great to have you with us thank you care. So the why did you want to write this book. So. I think that and. The ducks' main theme rainy as a back. Teen people's pain we'll have it at he had sex that this administration. Would be the set of moral center off that could be. Moderating influence is on a president maintains extreme character in extreme part of seasons. And I think that there was signs. Rights at the beginning that perhaps. They won't look Eckstein dissect sat sensitive to secede and whether Washington. Would change them out and and the ox striking case except being in the White House is very much number on kind of like cat and Neal family business. The army your description of them is not flattery they are nocturnal like this book. No I think that's that's treat that I the F chairmen then said and the tech as a result T Yates. Investigation. T nine in twenty different people going to feed hundreds and 1810. Multiple times. Is that these anti people who. And contacts of that upbringing. You know Jared Kushner. I am a someone he would voice in inaccurate when he worked for his father. And the cushion a family business is somewhat imperious. Dedicate tend not to deet tails Florian takes passed since it doesn't matter when you black. Four. And you finally found in New York. But it not knowing the details does not to bring you get to Washington. And I think that. And now held to a much higher Stan did an Iwuh before they went into the right cash Teaneck is anxious trump. Very handy on scene teased the transition as a sort of product placement for the fashion brand and again decent things that that shouldn't be. The no rooms. In our government or in the transition. Game in your title. And he knew even have the word corruption its commissioner ink greed ambition. Corruption yet but. Where's where's the corruption where's the criminality I mean to this point there hasn't been a prosecutor who is it accused either one of them of a crime. Right well. I'm not a pro skier on the Janice but I think EC the end Disney's armed pro for it right. At the beginning of the transition black eyed Jared Krishna. He says and conducting business on the half of conditioning companies. With the Chinese. I'm Gary Kyle didn't. To Arturo had since being very senior economist sex and you know when he found out to that at this. He said Jared in eight UConn T days F first thing you EET from now on is going to look. Site you've gone into government post sick constantly enrich yourself mean everybody around Jared Kushner. Was horrified. And Steve Bannon rent payments or have them but do you think it was an eight 84 was truth to deliberate there isn't disdain. For booths. Including the Rula fuel. You know in the world with Neil real estate it's okay by the commissioner apparently and I I think that cushion is their very close knit Fannie. There is to miss trust. Of eyesight is the whole way he's been raised. An entitled to mindset. There are some great moments Ricki where you actually talk about people trying to counsel. Jared and a vodka. About the things that you want to do you can't do in Washington you need to have a lawyer with you when your media these phone calls can you tell us a little bit about what that quit now. All the investigating that you've done what you think the transition. Was like for them. Well. He made the transition stops right it in an extraordinary way that the very fast weekends. In banking Gary's on and sixty minutes. I'm faster boot tells a flat tax. On trees which is that she's not going into administration and meanwhile behind scenes. It's very case she's making. There are plans for a trump found the office to be pushing to the east doing until Madani a trump gets wind of it and immediately puts an end. To that senate and then she flashes up. About angles that you ensure that the bank where she's wearing eat rich everyone is told that they combined for 101000 on his the next day. Yan as somebody senior in the transition sent to Nina UConn police she apologized to people who have has suspects until I did UConn unseat it. Right. Met at the same time Jared unspent unbeknownst to anybody is having. It's business meeting. Which she aged Chinese insurer asked. To try eighteen. Haven't solved the cushion is enormous financial albatross this building and Neil which threatens. To break them finance should be. And and he doesn't tell anyone but I think Chris is there. Point was a good one assists this is to people who really. Don't really know what their bargaining for a learned IE wouldn't what did you conclude about who what really was motivating them. You know mr. Cook County government. For public service dainty seemed to have good morning for a self suspects bright I mean as stated that it seems to be. No adapt from doing that and bank kept picking himself. In the room with foreign legion is on the famous far need to use these countries happened today and gave half fashion brand trademarks and mean she. It rates it a she she has she came up with a line from one of public's perception is more important. Than reality. And it would seem as stand for as long as supposed to be courage. She was going to try and you know I've played this. It's a maximum benefit. To have brand. Actually that's what struck me the most because in the last scene of monk has been on the public now maybe what three years maybe three and a half in real spotlight. This is the first book. That door first real hard look at her and very critical look at her why do you think that exist. You think there's a double standard it's always been Jared Jared Jared in the Moeller investigation but not her. Give an explanation. I think the minor investigation move gets the walked to deceptive. The Y. In a way of my come in I native says the eight he made DNA question that have come out from that China need days committee actually ET half. And out of concerns. About that a lot of questions on that about a prank is there is an. And announced that the 81 it the 81 people that got those first letters did Terence mentioned Lanka's garment and wants but there's more than fifty individuals and an organization's. That or asked to turn over documents related to that of all right and this is in tests what I eight rating what I would not bad enough to donate at any snaps off the table right rights so is that hinting that they all. Are looking at potential financial. Conflicts. And could eve on could be held accountable here could this go deeper could she find herself in trouble here. Well I think. That was enough smoke. For. People in the State Department and in the white price to be extremely upset and consignment. And by the very fact. Of Hyde eighty peeing on. Fenton cools and getting into meetings that they felt was inappropriate. Did they think she actually be. It and gone on offense Quentin sits up and be a two teeth. It legal net at least it was but it was it was much more subtle. And that I think they feel the unity general feeding leased it Jared. And doesn't have to thank his subtlety which is pats why Houston we are hearing his name a great deal Malloy and he made great deal more many event. And mistakes but as to whether or not these two will be held accountable by uniting the debt there aren't that if this goes to raise I. They will the as a combination of congress. I'm prosecutes its people he day. That cost that she chetry will continue as it has switch seemingly. Is remarkably unstoppable. If Mueller investigation concludes and jeered and a bronco are not on the receiving end. That work will that be a failure in your fear what do you think but I will I will say that. I. And cushioning. Does relate. To the Russian. Investigation. Because it's how Jared greedy pushed the president five James K may. In a way that hasn't dream of being reported the full. Right of the united Jared was gung high. According T. What and his senior White House officials. Step and he made it a three part pulling. It's argument to the president from to Steve Bannon and honest. That he still James K Mi. With hated by the FBI was hated by the Democrats. Kind of trump fighting in the base the base with love it and he he made this document very impassioned late. Right around the time. That the press has had to aren't that he'd been meeting. With these Russian bank and and and and and Russian diplomat. And he failed to put any of this on hace security clearance form. So I I'm sure that the minor investigation. I'm congress will be ticking very closely at that. But the White House is gonna sell your church parishioners people are gonna say them listen. Steve Bannon as a disgruntled personally I don't know of Steve Evans the source for you prefer your book on that story but. He. Is around a lot of the conversations and obviously the hatred between Steve and her fan and an insured commissioner is known. All over turn around so and with the vodka yet and with a bunker so did it does he have an extra ground I'm pretty away of all the different. Personal agenda is compact snow spandex is mean much of the challenges when you reported that like this is not to take. Just one pass sentence fashion of events I think that Tiki when you half. So since he would who wants the anonymous it's really important that you double sorts ever things say. You can BSE assured that the scene about. Jarrett. Pushing the president to five James K meet did not. Just because Bannon is in the run. That. There is multiple. So saying I'm eyewitnesses. On that so what more did you find out about why Jerry commissioner was encouraging the president to fire James Komi. Well I you know isn't the timing right. This is teaching a conversation. Happens. In front of them a lot of people. Which is why. It was an expert and dean A Jared enormity didn't go into the limelight that. But on this issue. He gauge I think that the honest so to bake. Issues for Jared that has not come up before but his injury important this is business of placing the white hats snow looks. He never won his his teens does that. The president to attack and it's you know and it was right key if you remember and apps to cry a passionate. But again. It turns act that just around this time that Jared. Is meeting. Wayne's and people here in a position to help. His family business are you suggesting he doesn't want people to oversee who's coming in there for these meetings that is absent eighty that in a they lack of transparent seeing I ran Jared I think he's really trumpeting. In one of the things I discovered that was approaching the decades that BS PX Annan's team that is not really interest and that is done Jack writes a financial discourage actually stands for brother is fast continent's second. And the way it was Jared himself. Explained it about three Yates again it's somebody he wanted to ha. Was dead it was of a 50% profit sharing agreement. Between himself and his brother Josh. And said that EA Joseph she's in a completely different set of businesses. I am I'm China commission and the father also told people he EE like the idea that the Brothers had a profit sharing agreement because he felt it when it it would stop them in a fighting at the money in the weight he enhanced his and brother had added. And disastrous. So the captain Josh cushion put Autoscoop and about your books and that Josh cushion it did denying that that public debt that is a profit sharing. Relationship. So the question is. He added when did it change. I gather that there significance of that if they're sharing profits on everything. But that means that chair it's not really divested himself of his private interests while he's in the White House's that does the most important point. I think he. The way he's divested its himself is is not the same instant it again rules offer other people right. Everyone else when they games the way pacts passed fast descent everything he can't have a store quote shack. We'll Jarrett has done is just put everything in a trust. Run by his mother and his brother we know he had this profit sharing arrangement in the cost their questions of it as too whether he too is now. Here it you know vodka have outlasted. So many of the key players that surrounded trump I mean pre this. John kell Lee. I am Katy will OSHA he had keep going. It's sort of begs the question what is the president actually think it listen I guess a question mark in your book because in some portions of your book it seem like the president. Needed jeered in a vodka around him and one of them around him and another point to you I'm paint a picture of him wanting them to go back to New York. It came in waves this equates. With president back and forth on whether he wants a vodka and Jared in the White House and not in the White House is that true. Yes completely. And you know Antonin as she knew what the woods I think one of the bush great ironies it wasn't. Even the president he ready push for them to come in. Don't Madonna Y has canceled. List I'm visit and didn't carry think it was a great idea partly because of corruption battle saying case they tend not to be competent. Went C. And Steve Bannon and sprang Stevenson said he made the Justice Department is ambivalent about it thanks. In and we can write a legal opinion to get around the the next his nose. What he's thinking it was bound fool people. He said gene and maybe. Maybe we need them. May be getting any people he can com. The president Dan amendments of high crisis and caused great irony insists it in six months later date de Russia's. Steve Bannon. Out the president hates. The negative press he hates hates. Reaching about Jared spokes to security clearance forms. He hate taped. Reading about men misuse of that email accounts. Brady building ten it's gonna bother him even more the way you write about Jerry's admission to Harvard. His dad. You know makes 2.5 million dollar donation calls up senator Lautenberg to call Senator Ted Kennedy. To call the admissions it's that are tattered senator he's candy elis Katie a very average student you know I I credit one of his classmates he was in the fast track he actually best entities. The case. When she had that he'd cut into confident and and she has. Geragos denied this I think I'm publicly is denying that this is the case that he is influencing him and Harvard is that ray did they talked here about this woman the other. Now I'm in Nene Dana that they never took about this to president trump top tier at all with three and with regard to your book the one. He I have now and the president and a little bit going back Kenya is actually. Am I did two Jane injuring the transition and that's when he said to me that he wasn't actually shall. If you he's gonna bring what he was going to do with Jarrett. When I when I read the book is tickets as I said in the beginning when we started this interview it's an extremely unflattering portrait of chair and and the Monica. But the president doesn't come off. That bad at all in my opinion on this Friday funeral. You actually seem sympathetic to trump in your book. Mott Carano. A kind of says on the rack cool would that. That the united since the president he doesn't like to appear weak but his biggest weakness. It pays to beast heyday he marries. You that they shouldn't be that he passed maze they shouldn't have security clearances in yet and he sets up you know he has sent to says to John Candy. He days. They need to carry make life so difficult and a dead at the end of did a great irony is. It's trump. Who can't pull a trick. Hit Kong. Get rid of them at high rise Jarrett in the position cities in with the comment the secretary of everything right I mean Erie is did did doing Middle East peace negotiating you have what I and I think that it's a reflection. Our trumps. Achilles heel actually that the east T. He's great weakness not being able to to put his foot down so White House insider that worked with them day in and day out had actually the most genuine real thing they sought and that son that environment and especially between those two. Was their relationship. Right that they enjoyed each other they love each of the they had fun that this was a real marriage and that somebody who dealt with them day in and day out. And and he actually to he has said many incite your book that that he completely disagreed with that betrayal that they were just a business partnership but I did I have a say. That I just this is punishing them walking the only president travel on a death her to marry Tom bring that president trump he's he's. That's as they he's allowed to have his opinion teen. I mean I initially think that the production days how incredibly similar. They. In in in many ways and very salmon in the way that they think that. I want you to clarify one thing there when you say that the president doesn't like reading bad press about Jared in a bunker do you mean that he. Feels angst towards the media for writing these stories or do you mean that he feels. Tanks towards Jared and Yvonne kind of for becoming the subject of these stories. They lashed Seth EOs and really hate. It when charts. Family finances. Come on to. The limelight and scrutiny because he thinks that. You're that just brings attention Wannstedt Tyson to his and past snow financing is and that's. That's not something he's a tool excited about what kinda blow back are you feeling are you feeling any. Revenge or payback scorer scrutiny from the White House or from their team's annual. They've cooled Iran and people they think tool to me. And I think has suited. You know asking people tease. He Enid disavow me I. I mean I was warned backing. Some before it actually written a single well it someone very close to Christmas Atlantic they gang ruled they gonna do these things that gonna go and try and discredit it I mean say I need I am. Right from the outset that that's what that plan Wallis I'm iris ice priced by and their son to his comment that and I think she said that my dog could be in cash Christ in my web site that's fiction that one point when that. Interestingly. My life cycle hacks. Should parents do not sick if but it with what what it but that was in the state that I I was amazed that senator son is a somebody in the White House stood at west and wild teen mom's sick XP taking it. My web site say Tennessee Amedisys radiant good decent tax pan. Don't list and the Kia the other thing is being Teddy and staying is say and that blanket denial that addressing every point of mice in my fact checking questions. Would be tee time consuming well. And I sent them a list of about seven all right questions that we sooner aren't since. So that the fact that they think it would be tee time consuming to address it is is kind of had Larry singer has your confident that everything your sources have told you are 100 yeah accurate I have a team that. Of seven fact check kids be kids. I wouldn't say they actual writing me safe cost and I mean that it had to be. Completely science. Tick me for months last summit just to read the transcripts of my thing. In two piece. And and two to get destruction. Of to put down. And send it then I'm reading I just as yet as I was writing I wanted to be show that. Ruled the G tales. Well how heyday when black completely accurate I am extremely. Confident. Admire pushing. The mullah report. Could be out how any minute what do you expect. What to expect out of this I mean if there is if it comes out and says no collusion. But they abused power would do you think people just ignore it the rest of the stuff they you've written about. Florida and because I think it said the program micro level is about charitable Banca put on on a much they get level. It's about how. The particles. In government. Have kept us safe from many many decades has just completely being shot stint in the last TA is adding its. You know I mean news reddish or. Place it's place and knocking him for a cup of coffee takes second today and it takes much younger. To mop it up should we be more focused. On the trump family and all their real estate business from years past I mean in a huge portion of Hispanic. Is is is your kids today take to the intersection of of the Krishna family finances. And has grown in government if dying continued. So. And I think it's one of the trump legal team. He Nate says in the panic that. There are going to be a lot of investigations. Because government that has cost as pasta on what's not central to his investigation he's posted out. The southern district of new. The story does not send when the minor approach if anything the stories just beginning. Vicky ward thank you so much we thank you. Artistic a quick break. And welcome back to the investigation once again I'm Kara Philips or with my cohost Chris blast O. Also senior editorial producer John sand Tucci who's been covering the entire term family since the launch of Donald Trump's campaign. We can tell you that Vickie Ward's book by the way also written a book about New York real estate so she she has an expertise. In this area when it comes to real estate dealings. In New York. Into keys account in her most recent book though. Pretty condemning. I didn't corrupt is right there in the title of her book we challenge her on that. I mean Jon and Chris there vodka and Jared have not been tied. To any type of criminal action thus far so do you feel that she was she was pushing it. Well I think glisten and a running out said the book is tough I mean EU EU do not. Close that book consider what how to share and of armed guard greet people according to Vickie award means she eviscerate stem. Over and over again and it is particularly. As a relates to Jared Kushner I mean she's going back into. Jerry cushion his father Charlie Kushner who obviously served time in prison but just the whole family I mean this this is now. Bum a glowing picture that anybody creates and I think one of the things that you all talked about Biggio trying to find if there. Outweighs any good today had to honoring thing hopeful that they have I mean in one of the things that she talks about is that she really believes. That they are any bowlers that they have come to Washington and opportunist again an enlarged always looking out how to advance themselves how to advance. Their businesses they're causes. I mean you as they told you I told Chris cure I mean you the amount of the calls that. I received from sources close to Jared no vodka and others in the White House. Over the last couple days screaming and yelling about this book I lost count to which he says her sources she believes in Chris DU harder. We asked you know did Ari do you worry 100% confident that your sources are accurate and she said with Al -- doubt. Although it's a brutal. Portrait. Jarrett in a vodka there are some real serious questions that she races that. I think are going to be eat the future investigations. After Mahler. I think there are real questions about chair in the vodka security clearances. And and what was going on in the White House. Now whether chair and was naive which is possible that he was new to government had no idea what he was going to be doing and he kind of saw well what's wrong with using you as a business opportunity for the truth is she kidding. That's what a what what I take away from this book. Is we're in for a lot more investigations even after the mall or. Yeah we sort happened after Michael Collins testimony the first public one that so many other different committees took bread crumbs he even ran with them we sore in New York State attorney general go after trump based on something they cone was asked during questioning. There's a lot here come from Micky Ward's book EV words ward points out taking all of these meetings. During the transition during the early days of the White House. That is going to open them up to congressional investigations and potentially as we know in the other the reach is that you have various attorney general's. Up and down the East Coast looking into the trumps keeps growing. On the defense of German vodka and you can read between the lines in this book and C. Who the sources are and most of them I can tell I could pick them out our ex White House staffers who had no love. For Jared and of us Steve. And an online one anybody Steve Bannon paging Steve venison do you think this and that and the planning orders to them that platform for everyone who's he's ticked off at that the president and his family mean is is just a disgruntled. Portrayal. Of those who can't stand weintraub doesn't. And I think that some of it I do I but I do think there's an element of truth to them and I do if you take all the books together I mean. Jared was a target for people I think Steve Bohannon was quoted another article once saying Jerryd flake error something John you may know that that you know. He he he kind of comes to a meeting and any disappears. But he doesn't take any responsibility so I mean people had a target up for Jerryd in the vodka because. They would stay based they're still surviving everyone else is gone what. And hasn't seen me Chris it needs is bad it is one to the other person you can clearly tell cooperated with this book it's seen as we don't know for sure but it would seem. Is Gary Cullen president's first economic advisor the former chairman of Goldman Sachs my understanding resources that he still quite friendly with them. However heat in. Really seems to go at them too if indeed it is him but there's thing stories that they are telling and quotes that she has been look Mickey ward says she spoke to what. 220. People 118 of them multiple times so she you know if you know she's done this before she's written other successful books is cure mentions. On the New York real estate market. I mean I think you're gonna have to read and judge for yourself. Seven cents at Caesars palace in this white Allison and you know everyone is. Casting aspersions upon ever when you don't really even know who to trust even after they leave the White House. It's same issue it sourcing though right how many times do we talk about this that you have one source telling you -- you think they're truthful legitimate by. You realize that this because they're trying to stay have the person in the back that they're telling you but ten that's the hardest thing but I do think you know and and and Karen I were talking about this earlier. There is. Good work the closures have done to their credit I mean Jared. Definitely championed the criminal justice reform bill that would not have gone through without him you -- Democrats even then Jones going to the White House cheering him on they've moved the embassy in Israel a big thing that he want to accomplish that checked off and a vodka Keira I mean look she's he doing events this week again pushing her women's empowerment initiative so. All right trying to do so see all the dole I think there's no doubt that a vodka and I'm speaking as a mom and as a woman here does have her dad's ear on certain issues in me when the immigration and story got real big and family separation she's the one that show the president all those images of the kids and you know diapers and dirty faces in crying in being you know. A they were portrayed as they are being ripped away from their parents so. I mean she she definitely has his ear on issues Sarah Sanders seeing this book saying it's sad but not surprising the media would spend time promoting a book based on shady anonymous sources and false info. Instead of all the incredible work that Jerryd in a bunk are doing for this country. Are they doing incredible work for this country you mention just two issues that got a lot of play but our day top notch advisors. Well but here's the thing on Mercury I think there was hope I think there is expected he shouldn't. That wind trump kick went into the White House that. And a bunker and Jerryd would be is. Calming influence. And Carter LC and that that they would protect. The country but the truth is Donald trumps his own man. Time at the House Judiciary Committee all the subpoenas. 81 people. Receiving letters just just to point out back to the book for a minute and we can talk overall about this debate going on about. Who says they're going to to show up and help out and who who isn't the request were letters sent everyone so no one is obligated to respond and I think what we're gonna see. Is a lot of them not respond well I purity you're seeing one of the president's early campaign advisors Michael Caputo said in a recent injury that he's not that cooperate let's listen to what you're going back. Well I won't go back. I gave them and blood quick answer me and my attorney to their questions for documents we have no documents that is that they asked for real I also have the shortest. Document request of all 81 people based on last minute my attorney David he does that meet your testimony and about. There are invited either inviting all of us you know I've got nothing left they've take taken my business maybe they parcel of crap out of my family I've gotten up and went. So that was my idol kudos very close with a Roger Stone worked on the president's campaign for the early half. The cycle on and has been under investigation the point now is that the deadline is coming for these 81 individuals and entities to turn over documents. To the House Judiciary Committee conclude I was the only one who has said he will not do it from others like Sean Spicer the president's first Press Secretary and Tom Barrick his longtime friend in decades. Friendship between the two have commands that they would cooperate but we haven't heard much from others and I do you think. That for many people that I've spoken to that are the subjects of these letters what they uses Coke. I'd on this already I have give immaterial to the house Intel committee the senate Intel committee the Senate Judiciary Committee. I've given stuff to Bob Mueller the southern district of New York. I'm done. And I do think once we actually see what Jerry Nadler and how she is Sherry receives. I don't think it's going to be oh all 81 complied. Check in no way an end to cure your point before bringing up of of vodka. I do believe that's going to be the battle for the next two years and I do for sea of Lanka and Jared. Before. Jerry Nadler is committee your house or Elijah Cummings. Committee but the fact is though if the tri employed house even I know I talk about my Clinton days a lot but the clintons mastered the art of delay. And were only in round one of this battle of going back and forth so I think before journal vodka appear before a public hearing like Michael Cohen. There's going to be a lot of subpoenas there's going to be a lot of courtroom challenges and we're going to be sitting in district court fighting over the whether they have jurisdiction are not over these allegations. Well and that's cystic christening people lives for lewd to have are hoping and they can keep this going. Into next year because it keeps it at this theory alive and well from the president that Democrats are just after him after his associates that's a great message for them to campaign on but. The other part of their union you said earlier. It be keeps them through the individuals Jared good commissioner Yvonne could trump the other members of the trumped every other principals Phillies Donald Trump. Out of the lights the cameras out of those those hearings. That is a total home run for team trump. He's got a fair had to do it I mean is the boss he told us on one of our most recent episodes he doesn't see their right. Eighteen they're ready to go there is that change between down next. Couple months. Who knows. But Alexander we have today thanks so much for joining us for another episode of the investigation please be sure to hit subscribe believers are raining and let your friends now about the podcast and thanks again to our producers Trevor Hastings and chanting Crawford my cohost Chris lasso and my colleagues and that Moscow and Johnson teaching see you next time on the investigation. Oh.
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