We are continuing this special report on this verdict in the Paul man at fort trial the jury finding him guilty on eight counts varying in. Forms of tax evasion bank fraud illegal use of foreign bank accounts but hung jury on ten counts he was facing AT and totaled injury could not reach. A verdict on ten of those counts of the judge will be declaring. And this trial on those ten counts it will be up to prosecutors if they want to retry him again. Paul man a fort president trumps former campaign chair found guilty. On eight counts in this case Devin Dwyer coordinating producer is standing by for us in DC a and DeVon how significant is this. Given there was no actual relation between this and the trump campaign or the rush to probe but this being Robert Muller's first. Case. Well as you heard from our team over at the courthouse that this was a sick very significant moment for Robert Mueller the first test this sort of a vindication. Of his legal efforts to go after. President trumps team here corruption if you will around the campaign. The president trumps his his supporters the White House though though they haven't weighed in officially yet. I would say look this is a sign that they have nothing on the president. That the fact that they have now. A convicted com and a fort on these tax charges fraud charges none of that as you had happened you know connected to the campaign as you say. But what was fascinating in this trial was that it was taking place. During that time he was leading the trump campaign arm and a fort did not file tax returns. He did not a report these accounts. While he was there in the next in the late days of 2016. So very close to the president here or service or real afternoon. Diane in addition to what's going on with Michael Cohen that this is hits so close to president from. And quite a big day in terms of court proceedings related to the president DeVon I want to bring in here Thomas he's there. At the courthouse and hear what we know so far about these counts on which metaphor was then he'll. Well again and eight counts if found guilty spacing likely leaders years in jail. Tax evasion charges there were five counts of that there was a period of foreign policy when bank account on another charge and it was a bank fraud charge in a bank. Conspiracies can be a conspiracy charge so. Again yup that in perspective of these already in jail being held in connection would witness tampering alleged allegations of witness tampering. So this was while it was a mixed verdict if Ku is a very difficult day for Matt we're and his failed. The man is going to face again years in jail he's another foul coming up. In that regard to whether he was acting illegally as a foreign agent on the behalf of the Ukrainian officials. So again typical day for the man afford team and his family but. It is the politics. There were ten counts which a jury could not come to a unanimous verdict on and the judge declared a mistrial on those ten counts. And it here any and sort of inclination of how this case might affect. That other case that amount for it has ahead of him. Well again. They're separate cases. But they're also being held and tried by the special counsel so. From their standpoint the fact that they got convictions. In which this man will be facing. Jail time he's now a convicted felon. If you will so from that standpoint it gives legitimacy to the investigation. But again there will be politics involved were so people will say we didn't get a slam dunk because he didn't get off. The charges. Convictions on all charges but again. In practical terms for the man who is facing eighteen counts is now looking at jail time in the course of years. Comments or if there in Alexandria Virginia peer thank you. I wanted to over KH IVC news consultant. Kate we are here talking about the political ramifications of being found. Guilty on eight counts forgetting a hung jury on the other ten what are the legal ramifications of all this. Well I mean until you're talking about the possibility of jail kind of course now you know we're looking at their their could be decades in terms of attendance record attached to the conviction on the account the jury did convict on. But you know an additional legal questions that have to be swirling around the White House and the president advisors right now with the question of pardons right. The president has staked unilateral power to pardon he could pardon common for a ten day if you wanted to you. You know you could pardon for conduct that even I haven't been tried or convicted yet so. To bet that that curtains. Critics and even to the kinds of things that haven't yet been trials in the DC case that's scheduled for September. So you know I think there have to be a lot of conversations ongoing right now. About whether. To use of that kind of unilateral power. And yet utilities security clearance stripping our board that single security and stripping that the president is flexing his muscles in terms of some of the unilateral presidential power so. So I imagine there he at least is thinking about. And Kate in terms of the relation to the campaign you know this wasn't a direct client with the Russian investigation it was Robert Muller's first case. But it sounds like some of this was going on. Wild common of sport was working for the campaign could be campaign somehow get dragged into this. You know a couple of possible linkages one is the kind of timing connection writes some of the content wasn't going to. While plummet toward what connected to campaign that there's that linkage. I'm and then there actually is the linkage not just of the campaign but but. To the Russia probe at least in general terms in that. You know the fund that we're being hidden in banks and that report then being reported. If that were the subject of the tax fraud claims that were either picked that jury did convict on a lot of the sort of public funds. Or many of them where Ukrainian clients of common afford many of which were Russian affiliated. And so there is a connection to Russia sort of that leaves behind a lot of the conduct that the issue here. So go to Russia in the campaign are in the background even though none of those things are squarely at issue in terms of the conduct that was charged. And on which the jury convicted. An F from the perspective of the tram campaign if there is something to worry about do you find the fact that he hasn't. Cooperated with prosecutors until this point. Is that reassuring does that sort of mean he either doesn't want to or doesn't have anything or could he now go forward and still cooperate in this issue with this next case. You know he absolutely could and I think stranger things have happened but I I would be very surprised I'm having sort of he stood the pressure to cooperate. Even beating that the amount of jail time that he is facing. I do at this point it doesn't seem that likely to be that he can reverse course now I think farmer likely he's holding out hope didn't get the complete pardon and never had to do any jail time at all. And now he's looking at jail time it sounds like what these eight counts at least he's already. Been in jail on this witness tampering. Issue and there will be until he serves in that next case. So what are the what are the potential that we're looking at in terms of how much time comment or could get. It looks like decades and the total increase in terms of the eighteen counts I it looks like he was speaking something like 300 years of aggregate jail time. And I think in terms of the eight that we've seen convict that the convictions are on it looked like up to eighty years and so you know. Functionally that would get life in prison. Of course that an outside limit and you know sentencing judge would by no means obligated to get back under maximum sentence but it's essentially like and pretend that. Could be on the table. Is there any way for palm out of fort to sort of make things better for himself at this point. Well you know that he could choose to cooperate and then of course that the extent that he had useful information to provide to the prosecutors. The possibility ever accused prison sentence would very much be kind of on the people. Or you know he can make it clear to the president any team that. He interest at an apartment but I would say that those are at this point a look at could appeal these you know. I point and errors in terms of these proceedings and obviously. He's got a legal team that I met it would be able to continue fighting but obviously this is a tough day for him and his family. And in terms of the ramifications and a potential of this potentially affecting you know the White House president. One of the star witnesses through these star witness in this case was ranking aides who worked side by side with metaphor for many years both in his businesses but also. In the campaign itself could gates pose a problem for the. So gates' testimony was not as effective but the prosecutors had hoped it I mean he was subject to. Tough cross examination over the course of a couple of days now we don't know what country meet critic could've been that most of the jurors. Wanted to convict even on the counter that were so reliant on gates' testimony. But there were a couple who you know believed that. Did the defense is essentially successful and undermine his credibility. So I think all of that you know it's part you know all we know what that object that the terrorists could not reach unanimous. Verdict to convict on those counts of but you know if it seemed that they'll probably he's provided all the useful information he had to provide. As I did charges that were at issue in this trial. As we know there's different conduct that it's going to be. But subject to scrutiny in just a couple weeks in the T he trial that we don't. We know what Kate's might provide in conjunction with those proceedings. And Kate just real quick can get a added eighteen counts. Yes the rest a hung jury do prosecutors consider the so when. I think they do look I'm sure they would have been happy. To go you know a 100% eighteen out of eighteen but but they got convictions on one account so so I think that there probably very pleased with the result. I Allen had back over at seven to iron out Kate shot thank you so much I want it back over to our Courtney producer Devin Dwyer adds and we heard Kate saying you know kind of mixed bag for the prosecution but she would say will. A win ultimately. What does that mean politically do you think Robert Mueller declaring. Victory right now. Well I think the special counsel certainly as Kate says there's probably happy with at least some sort of negate guilty. A convict in conviction here in this case but. I've got to politically for the president this is not good news and in fact and their Drudge Report very popular conservative blog site just started pandering. Trump's hell day to give you a sense of how this is plain in that space. On and you remember during the 2016 campaign when all of the president's supporters chanted lock corrupt lock her up. With respect to Hillary Clinton and her alleged crimes well today you started here chance of lock him up lock him up outside that courthouse. Just after that verdict was read and. That's something I think you should keep keep an eye on as the mid term campaign plays out Democrats. Diane have seized on this they see. This is a sign of corruption their campaign against corruption either pointing out the president has surrounded himself with some characters now who have run afoul of the law. And you know politically this could be a hot issue and I just a few weeks and voters head to the polls. And Devin the president is getting ready to speak at a rally tonight in West Virginia do you expect him to address. Well he he he might he is as you know very well he has our time. Resisting comment on the top topics of the news his team was just asked actually. An Air Force One their flying out to Charleston, West Virginia marine as a rally at 7 PM eastern time sir Sanders the Press Secretary said she had nothing. To comment on right now we're guarding on and a four or. The president's personal or medical call and who's in in court right now in New York's owed no comment officially from the White House. The president herta question earlier boarding the plane about metaphor no comment they're either. But as you've been talking about the president's been very fond of Paul metaphor he's talked about how he thinks that he hasn't been treated fairly. How he it's been a sad day for the country to see this case go forward. In his view because upon them for its connection to the president. And so you know it has a lot of people talking about those pardons you heard Kate mention that's very much on the table the president hasn't taken those pardons off the table. So it will be worth watching very closely tonight at that rally in the days ahead how this White House our response and what signal it might send department afford his team. It will indeed Devin thank you an action wanna get over to Alex Mallon who is traveling. With the president and Alex what do you expect to hear from the president tonight. Luckily they did happy crowd is ordered to be handled waste of big news regarding. Or investigate and Paul Mann a port. President had been bitten. Make it basically that the whether he's he's going to be restraint in not imagine these both. It tells stories. That have potential major legal applications or MI output I've been erratic talking with members of the proud of and I mostly authority airport is but after the Michael Cohen is and then have a heart separating any it'd. From what the president what are all the which company they largely agree with them Eric thinking and it all our. No he speak but EP. And then and I think that it doesn't matter much that people there security here at get caught the typical rally talked about it. Immigration. Tax. Really right now I'm not a lot of negative reaction directing death on the a lot of people here Beijing through their Smart phone. Trying to get a better sense of what that is actually meeting. Yet there is a lot can dig here for sure I wonder if you might choose to speak they're giving it is. Jamie recent deposited crowd that will probably linked to his benefit. Yeah I mean and the pat doubly hurt the president yeah in the wake actually I bring up. His rally at the NRA a couple of months ago when people you know you don't with some pop what do you think honestly. That's news that the metaphor trial and that. Yet eloquent. Was questioning Muller's mandate and the president drop of more than happy to bring it up at that rally let this obviously having it under. Unclear how president might be able waited and good news certainly indicate that Michael all the not a lot of good news all out of there. I'm upper app will help look at that mistrial on that Brothers several counts against all Massport. But we don't spoke glowingly about him just last week. On the out on time report that you good man who are currently bad as what we could hear from him tonight we did hear the boilerplate which. That we generally are commodity rally. I'm not game particularly right now but. Obviously adding that that particularly in a rut spending neared a lawyer armored truck that. An Alex you know given this verdict drops on the same day that the president's. A personal attorney and former fixer Michael Colin is seemingly agreeing to a plea deal. What are the political ramifications here for the president especially going into an election season hence the campaign rally. I think at this. Despite that it I think talking it. Everett the breath out here president some going to be here speaking on behalf. Attorney general Patrick board the that the deep reds eight and eater X Bryant hunt. Democratic senator Joseph mentioned outplayed I'd you're nothing but. Art Ingrid bulk. From the members of this crowd they want to yeah participate. In its war against and eat it against Democrat the president broke been waging what are. And waiting at a public remarked I think that that you're going to be able to do list then that they wait that would all the other I could hold it. I brought the country. And Alex stay with me it is not gonna recap for anyone who's just joining us Paul man a Ford was facing eighteen felony counts ranging in bank fraud and tax evasion. Has been found guilty on eight of those counts hung jury on the remaining ten he was the former campaign chair for the tram campaign. And we're just sort of running through now the political ramifications and legal ramifications of all this the president. Is getting ready to speak at a rally in West Virginia at night and Alex Mallon who are speaking through right now is traveling. With the president you know Alex the prosecutors' dedicated this picture of man afford as someone who made. A lot of money consulting pro Russian politicians. And then sort assists Kidd that money in foreign accounts I used to this opulent lifestyle and then when the money ran out resorted to bank fraud and tax evasion in order to continue. That opulent. Lifestyle the president at first. He has seemed to sort of stand by an out of court and away but then also credit distance himself. From that Ford. Has he changed his tone at all lately as its verdict has come closer and closer. I'm. Certainly what the first are about it at or near that record and it did and felt saying. 08 he claimed that all men afloat was only on it in a very very short period I. We don't at all medical accident other than campaign. Her five month. And airmen during and here so it it is you brought out in saint. Get mad at this last week I think what they've been deputy head of the shame for our country what Almeida or. Don't anchors I think their argued here real appealed to supporters who sign that it and it speaks out to get the president. Either that presents well on Justice Department. And firing against some way but at the same time we. We repeatedly heard the president state. That whatever all airport gated it was completely distance from his campaign and real note correct alma leak any news Ryan. And what he was doing a law serving as campaign chairman. Well we heard this morning again at which time we hear the president say that he could actually coordinate the Russian investigation. Hellman essentially do you Robert Muller's so. We'll see how he weighs in on that today hat that rally in West Virginia if he weighs in on it at all. What else are we expecting to hear from the president at that Alia. I think you know what we're obviously what ended up about it beat out Bob Eric all regulation that the president. The current administration and out that they're rolling back today it didn't make it. Eat your girt Paul producers showed that kind of ignored the higher metal regulations that would put up a ball administration. I'm out an op. This the greatest if there's any campaign or. The Q Pete. That's and they wanted to and I immigration act a double. Several members that Crowder they're really. Are we got the immigration issue here they didn't hear the president talk about building law. And what the progress this with that if they are let the in the rush to investigate that Baghdad Michael Owen old man ordered all of these legal doubled that are bearing down the president did you see. And good little border date not we. That's couple days but I think if they really what you're blacked out now. Well we lift and buddy here that Alex thanks so much for being their power as. We look forward to chatting with you more about that but right now want to bring in. Marianas parks our deputy political director. Merry us you've heard us talking to Alex there as the president gets ready to speak at this rally in West Virginia. Do you think it's advisable for him to address both the man a court verdict and this potential plea from Colin. The president hasn't exactly followed advice from legal experts in the past. I doubt you'll begin to do so now mysteries uprising kill a lot of people in the White House people in Washington and it obviously legal experts are on the country. The president weighed in on the manna for a trial why all the jury was deliberating. Over the last few days so he was willing to weigh in then. I can't imagine he goes to your entire speech an entire freewheeling campaign right tonight without mentioning. We think the tone is there were they counting on this is as a complete surprise. And no I don't think this was a surprise that the prosecutors laid out a pretty. And convincing case especially on those tax charge is obviously you've been talking about all the documentation and the evidence. That the government presented. I think a lot of people were expecting summit guilty. Verdicts at least on some of those charges because it seemed like such an extensive paper trail. And marry us you can stay with me and is trying to bring in the new argue seasoned attorneys on the phone with us right now to ask him about that actually. The new we -- V. Prosecution lay out I think it was 27%. To 27 witnesses pieces of evidence at setter at the defense's tactic here's seem to just be well. They didn't prove their case. Legal experts have said that's not unusual but given the results do you think that that was not the correct strategy here. America than any strategy that he would and one correct strategy this case I think it and. Did that. The circumstances. Couldn't put on a case. I didn't see any chances and not a case and what they did what they attacked and look there and counts. That the jury came back with what no verdict. The UK some small harlequin. Unfortunately. The captain convicted of will will carry jail.