Presidential contender Eric Swalwell: 'Let Mueller lay it out' in front of Congress

On "The Investigation" podcast, Rep. Swalwell, D-California, said he hasn't written off impeachment proceedings but says first up is to call on special counsel Robert Mueller to testify.
45:25 | 04/23/19

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Transcript for Presidential contender Eric Swalwell: 'Let Mueller lay it out' in front of Congress
Chris clusters senior executive producer here at ABC news I'm joined by the two senior members of our investigative team Johnson teaching amount possible who've been covering Donald Trump since she's got into the race and his continue to do so up until the Muller reports Saddam released it's been five days since smaller report came out and and there seems to be a little bit of movement in the Democratic Party that impeachment seemed to be off the table. Categorically but now some of the congressional leaders seem to be moving in a different direction calling for possible impeachment but you'll start to notice now with this podcast we have changed the our work we have removed Robert Mueller from the art. And we have replaced it with Donald Trump and we're doing that because the investigations obviously are gonna continue. Over the next couple years whether it's impeachment whether it's the government affairs and oversight committee or the battle for his tax returns for. Here at ABC news we know that investigations. Fortunately or unfortunately are not gonna go away for this president so we will continue to do this as the investigations continue let's first get to our guests today Terry Moran Terry. As I said before it seems like Democrats. Are kind of opening the door to possible impeachment Nancy Pelosi has made it clear Ter her members that she is that resistant to impeach this president. Over the Muller report however over the weekend Jerry Nadler who's the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee seemed to open the door let's take a listen. If you got to thinking this is impeachable. Yeah I do. I do think that this and that if proven if proven. Which hasn't been proven yet some of this. If proven some of these would be impeachable yes. The obstruction of justice if proven would be impeachable and it you're gonna go about to see if you can prove it. Well we're gonna see where the facts lead us. So Terry what do you make of this do you think. Impeachment gonna happen. Well I don't think impeach and is gonna happen at the end of the day now speaker of the house next illicit doesn't want it. It makes no sense for Democrats but they're in a bind because so many Democrats. Demanded. And and there is this issue you know what's impeachment for. Is it really the indictment that will lead to the trial in the senate the removal from office or is it. To vindicate. The rule of law. For president who as Robert Mueller acknowledged can't be indicted under Justice Department policy. He can't be indicted. And you can't impeach him and he's done something that you believe is truly corrupt. What's the answer because if if they do impeach the president and I I don't think they will. But it's a futile gesture. They need twenty vote they need votes any two thirds of the senate basin 67 closeness that in the senate and they will never get that. And do you think they should try though to censure or is that also just kind of meaningless. I think that's a great idea but but you know it it hasn't been done before but yes I think creative thinking around if if you are concerned. With what's in them all the report. With the way that the president has been exposed as welcoming. Publicly welcoming. Help from Russia even though. There was no conspiracy proven in ST ban and famously said that we couldn't collude with state Republican parties much less the Kremlin. If you do believe more seriously president actively tried to thwart this investigation. Such as one way. But I I was persuaded by one of the democratic candidate take a Carroll who said impeachment is at the end of the day a political process. And there's another political process coming up reelection campaign. And he said I'd rather. Beat trump in Wisconsin. And other places. Then lose to him in the senate by twenty votes and guarantee a second term because the public would be so fed up with impeachment so. There are I think I think if you walk but for those people who are concerned and lots of Democrats are concerned they do need to get creative I think that the forces. Are against a successful impeachment but one of the theories that's out there is sort of if you build it they will con me in other words. If you hold impeachment hearings. And you have a series of high profile. Witnesses come forward that. Over time you're gonna build. Public support for the idea that the president should be removed from office that it's a cart before the horse issue. Is there something to that is that an approach that you think Democrats could get behind are ultimately is that not enough. I think that's a very good idea for for this reason this is a 400 page dense report. I think a lot of people have been confused by the coverage so far and I've been part of it so mayor culpa. But public hearings well structured. That aimed to bring out. The alleged misconduct of the president through. Do star witnesses like Robert Muller pressed like Don again that the White House counsel. Those kinds of things could bring out the most damning. Aspects what was found in this investigation is most damning to the president in ways that the press that the public could get enemy where this is a political process. You're talking about essentially mounting a campaign. To discredit the president. In that in the congress to two proof misconduct. And I think regardless of where one stands on impeachment those hearings are a good idea. Right that it what is in that report. If every American should know. But doesn't surprise you and you look it now we're four months into this new congress almost five. So far the only star public witness they've done on anything has been Michael Cohen they have not. Moved forward on some the other items they've talked about. Conversations about Jerry Kush earn about could trump security clearances we haven't heard that for the last several weeks. It does feel like if things are outside Muller reports just the overall apparatus this democratic congress is will slow. That's really interest things that they may cents. That that the public if you do something like that you'll want to hit pay dirt you've got to deliver the goods they don't wanna be. They don't want to hear months more of this stuff. Without a pay off at the end. And it may be is certainly if you if you look at the Muller report you see. These instances that that the Muller team felt could be obstruction of justice. It's not Nixon right this is the thing we were talking earlier Johnson or Nixon was suitcases full of cash to buy the silence of witnesses it was his. He organized a conspiracy to get people to perjured themselves. He abused his power he shredded millions of documents he used the executive privilege issue. Two to thwart a do invested doing an investigation. And you know at closing argument for trump and it in a court of law would be obstruction of justice he turned over million documents. He never raised executive privilege and all of this entire well well wherever fired all of his aides testified with his permission without hindrance military let's also lived through. You know Rudy Giuliani said over the weekend he made the case that says even. Getting information from Russians wouldn't be legal let's hear what Rudy have to say. This doesn't that nothing wrong with taking information from Russians there's nothing wrong with thinking I don't where it came from. It depends on where it came for a you're assuming that the giving of information of the campaign contribution. He read the report carefully. What do you think about that turned. America's mayor long way down either because I think you may be right on the law but he said nothing wrong. He should there's nothing wrong with taking information from the Kremlin to win an American election I'm medical I'm going to be biased here that's wrong. He shouldn't take information gleefully take information from the Kremlin. In order to win an American -- lower level or limit but let me let me let me look at it the other way though. There Hillary Clinton Campaign hired a law firm that hired Glenn Simpson. Gave him a million dollars. Who then went and got up spied. From the British government who went to Russia to dig up dirt on Donald Trump very different very very different really get it jamming them. That that's not the Kremlin that's a British citizen running around Moscow trying to see what. What information he could develop on Trump's ties to Moscow this is that Kremlin this is the KGB. What these are saying hey. Donald Trump we got dirt on Hillary Clinton Donald Trump junior say it sounds great. That may not break a law it may not be espionage Baghdad but that sounds wrong to me is it wrong for. Political campaigns to hire people to go to other countries to see if the business dealings and other countries could be used against a candidate. It's is dirty but taking from another government. Asking seeking help they were explicitly. Told that the trump tower meeting. This is the Russian government and wanting to sabotage. Our election by giving you some dirt. That's different than hiring a British citizen to go rummaging it to go. We sperm around but we don't really know where you got that information front. Did he get a from the Kremlin we don't know. Do well deserved them that the candidate trump knew where the information was coming from when he said Russia if you're listening I would love. Hillary Clinton's 30000 U mental strength from him. And I I just think that that. If we're gonna have any standards it it should be don't accept help from a foreign. Adversary cost Al government. Yuck I mean is it is it nice that people wearing a run around dig up dirt on their opponents. No but he is tragic and flake a hiring of a British citizen. To investigate his Trump's alleged activities in Russia from the direct offer of assistance from the Kremlin itself. And that's a big difference and it matters but Terry we know I just aren't ET the 30000 year percent of us report unit were talking. This earlier. About what people Tico weakness report what they learn about Donald Trump. Com and Kellyanne Conway was out on the shows this weekend she is asked about on the president's conduct overall and and about you know the the on our ability of John McGann the White House counsel and Robert Mueller for the course the 22 month investigation this is the calmly told Martha Raddatz on Sunday. I believe that dominant and isn't horrible attorney who stayed on the job eighteen months after this alleged incident. Took place and that if he were being asked him shocked justice or violate the constitution or commit a crime and help to commit a crime by the present 98. He went had stayed I certainly Wednesday the president. Is it is a brightly frustrated and trying to like everybody else tries to do. Make it now concede illegitimate investigation has produced no collusion no criminal conspiracy. No indictment no impeachment of this president. It's still what Connolly was asked by Martha was reacting. 21 of the sections of the report where the president again are having this conversation about. A New York Times story which ABC confirm it the president. One age to fire special counsel Robert Mueller asked again about it the story said McGann. You said no and the president want him to go out there and say the storm is completely untrue they never had such a conversation. And again her puffed him but what this brought to me though Terry is Daniel Unita returning us this morning actually that when you. Look at this report for me is somebody who's covered this president since he was a candidate. I think if you really read the whole thing you understand. How naive Donald Trump could be into trusting so many people around him CEO of flying off they handles. Thinking that the west wing is very much like trump. Tower that's. That's a generous and plausible. Way of looking at this at this president he was after all a complete rookie. When it came to political office he'd never held it never held. Anything but the head of a family business. Which runs in a different way then then then I'm fortune 500 corporation and so is who he was in. Did you stay in and frankly in a rather sharp business way right ask all the contractors that got. Shafted by the by the Trump Organization so he's used to cutting corners. And to agree saying fire this gang that guy getting fired. And that isn't that is a plausible way but at some point it had to sink in because he was to hold. That the presidency is different government is different the enforcement of law is different and firing Muller. You know could legitimately be seen as obstruction of justice what I took away David I think it's a great point and Kellyanne Conway they're saying while Meghann stayed on. Yeah McGinn told these things to investigators under penalty of perjury. So it happened as far as you know madame again didn't make something up it seems to me it happened that trump asked him to lock fire Muller. And then to lie about that he asked him to fire Muller. And that does reflect. Bond trumps experience or lack thereof but also his care dietary. You know I heard from a lot of Republicans over the weekend that said to me listen. He in his mind believed he did not collude with the Russians so then this whole investigation goes forward. And he's fighting back in he's saying the hell with you why you coming after me why is there a special counsel this makes no sentence because I'd been so I'm gonna fight back. Doesn't he have the right to fight back. Yes I actually he does. I think that's a good point I'm not sure about these particular circumstances but. Bar. In his famous twenty page memo. Two or members and actually in the in this in the famous for infamous forty cents an important page I got a couple of them a couple of it was memos. But he said imagine. I'm a presidential election happens and the other party wins so imagine Democrat wins in November of 220. And in between November of 20/20. And Jan Erik 22 anyone. The outgoing president pretend it's Donald Trump. Decides to launch an investigation. Against. The incoming president to discredit him more. And there's a US attorney or somebody handling that investigation. That the incoming president has to be able to fire that person. If it's a truck if it is trumped up bogus investigation. They have to be able to fire because not all investigations are equal but that's the point. This mean on the one hand asset that was a very. Persuasive argument against this being an obstruction case right that correct that the the president has every right to fight back give peace being if in fact he's being wrongly accused of some thing. On the other hand there are 400 pages here that suggests that there was some. Bassist for the investigation that it wasn't. A written. Developed out of whole cloth and that that Chris is right about that though at the bottom of it one guy knew that he was innocent. Donald Trump he is so yes there were a 140 contacts between trump. Or campaigned. And win presidency. Officials and the Russian government or agents of the Russian government a 140 so there was a legitimate basis good faith basis to investigate this. But at the bottom of it the president was like I know I didn't do this. At the end of the day he was well served by his staff who said he didn't do it your innocent they're confined anything. And you'll be fine and they can understand the temptation he would have to want to fire. The investigator to strike back at the people who are making these accusations which he believed which he knew to be false to be baseless did that. Not baseless but false because they edged as bands that think they couldn't. They couldn't collude with themselves basic government that is why I started doubting that there was any there there in this investigation. The first MSR Carter page and are viewed. And I said this is not this is not some arch. Expert international conspirator man of mystery. You know we I was like this guy is kind of what do you know and and with you with the Kremlin would you trust Carter paid to these other types likeness and Italians on this guy who I interviewed in Moscow who also. It seemed rather Daffy Tammy. To meet with that an incredibly. Sensitive. Critical secret operation against the United States no. And no one else was prosecuted for that as well so this argument of sighing that. The president can't be prosecuting that may have protected him. Now not one person was prosecuted for conspiring with the Russians well and also and I think that for all those those who have been doing this every day for nearly the last two years. I mean certain individuals they'd come off over the course this investigation they it is interesting that. You know knew who we did things sort of went over the last two years. To being some of these individuals that we were convinced there had to be something they're beast and we were hearing what questions are being asked. Of all these witnesses they were brought in either for interviews ordered a grand jury but a lot of them ended up not really going anywhere as of now I mean it I do think the one. Bitter caution on all of this in and know Chris dimension as the top here that we change the art work turf like that. Things will go on I mean were robber Muller's team referred out. Over a dozen. Katie sees that they were you know within the flag to them to other jurisdictions we don't know where some of the credit goes some of them are still going to be. Ongoing. With US attorney's offices alike Roger Stone that that case is really at the moment just since infancy. And use went Adam Schiff said over the weekend talking about a weird this matter may be headed maybe one here that man. You you went farther than saint ample evidence she once described to me on this program that the truck administration's actions related to the Russia probe are quote. Of a size and scope probably beyond. Watergate what do you say now. Well I think it's clear from the mullah report that that's exactly right. The obstruction of justice in particular in this case is far worse than anything that Richard Nixon did. The though the break in by the Russians of the democratic institutions. Foreign adversary far more significant than the plumbers breaking into the democratic headquarters so yes. I would say in every way this is more significant than Watergate. And the fact that a candidate for president and now president nine states would not only not stand up and resist Russian interference in our election but would welcome med. Goes well beyond anything Nixon did. He carried is to remind me. I'm who hired at the teen to go and break into the democratic national headquarters during the Nixon terror well as president so they there was an underlying crime he's right it wasn't anywhere near as serious as to hack of the DNC but there was an actual crime. They they broke into try to commit political skull dug great. And then there was a gigantic conspiracy to obstruct the investigation into that crime. Far far more explicit in worse. Then anything trumped it with them it's not to mention they broke into Daniel's birds doctors. Psychiatric office I mean. The list of crimes of the Richard Nixon administration is far more significant if very among those who work of them are alive and hydrated there was something else that ship said there that this worth mentioning them. He said that. Don't the way to trump welcomed Russian interference. And I think that one of things that there has so many people upset about trump and the reason that they're determined in some ways committed spiritually that this investigation. Result ends impeachment and removal from office. Is because he trashes so many norms. Of American civic behavior in presidential leadership what and that is one of the reasons that the Democrats should hold hearings on the house. In the house because whether their impeachment hearings or otherwise because this report catalogs. That contempt. That this president has for telling the American public the truth I think also the unanswered questions the questions that are not resolved by the Mueller report namely. Why does the president speak. One way about Vladimir prudent and other ways about other world leaders and that feel teach of the Russians. Has really defy next. Our nation I think from pretty much anybody I was gonna say say amount point Matt I think he he goes back to. During the campaign I mean you remember the first time. The president used a press conference to call to Russia and it was Russia if you're listening if you've got Hillary's emails put them all out there. And it was you know as we've learned from that report now it was shortly thereafter sure that everything started to go with domino effect to a week he leaks was up to. Well. I think that that that is why people are so upset people see in trump not just to disrupt their. But somebody who's out to destroy. Some of the weighs in norms that we had in the past that president should be hay and this this report does catalog as for Putin was in Helsinki. And I saw a general Kelley then chief of staff and ambassador Huntsman. And they were just looking at their shoes the whole time as trump refused to stand up for America to the Russian dictator. As trump good sold our own intelligence community down the rivers and well you know he says no our intelligence cases yes you know so I don't know notably. It was it was and bizarre. And nauseating performance that that does in some ways defy explanation. And that's why we have a lot more to investigate of Donald Trump and future thank you so much Terry. Thanks grass you forever. That's good very thanks for joining us coming up we speak to congressman Eric Small while and he not only is opening up the door to impeachment but he is also running for president and we'll see what he has to say coming up after the break. Welcome back to the investigation I'm crisp Lester senior executive producer BBC news and I'm here with the co captains of our DCT John Finn Tucci and met mosque. Who've been leading the coverage of Donald from since he entered the race for president and also we are joined by Kathryn folders who covers the White House and has also covered trump and as part of our investigative team let's get started and now joining us by phone is congressman Eric swallow his number of both. A house judiciary and House Intelligence Committee but what also makes him different he's joined the ranks of though almost. Twenty presidential democratic candidate so we'll see how the mullah report is gonna play during the 20/20 election welcome to show congressman the Moeller report is out. What do you think congressman are you can have impeachment hearings. Or certainly having a conversation about how we hold the president. Accountable I mean there there's. The contracts and your campaign had. With the Russians which may not have amounted to criminal culpability but certainly. Are concerning and are there are not going away that the Russians will continue to interfere and if we don't so some you know boundaries around what it is. Acceptable conduct her campaign or presidency. We could lose you know our democracy to future interference tax and then on obstruction. He's a double digit up structure throughout Bob Bauer laid that out one of the reasons he's not and guided it looks like it's because Goler. Police that he can indict a sitting president it's about what's. On congress and you know what we have to ask ourselves is this if we do nothing. You know what does that mean for future. Presidencies what does that mean or another the standard of conduct that we accept. In. Our democracy and so the first step is to bring Bob ball aren't going to be about it and actually. Still what is there to do to meant to close who's saying we're not view impeachment is off the table I mean what is the purpose what what would it solve to investigate we kind of know all the facts so. Impeachment topic and ordered certainly not a media and I I don't speak for the speaker but I don't say but I read from her history is you know we're word. Do our job wherever conversation on Monday. There's a caucus earned northern it get I think. It's easy salute contrast. And president who rushes to judgment and makes quick conclusions about everything now without any evidence and and you see. Responsibility. In governing and wanting to have a rule law and not. Just rushing to judgment and train or why aren't they doing in fact why aren't they treating trumped the way that he treat them and that's just because. We think he's wrong to do that so we're not gonna do that ourselves but it doesn't need not going to be overcome. But you know I but I did a boon to review shows recently talked around the country and I noticed. That this country is just truly polarized when you go to the southern states. And you talk to the radio stations fare of they'll tell you bill say to people listen this was a president. That was the underlying charge wasn't a crime and he was protecting himself and she was fighting back and he has every right to protect himself. If he's an innocent man. You know and and he can use his power to defend himself you know that's what a lot of the stations were sent in do you think. It's not only are you gonna have any impact on those people. Well you'll what I would ask people to choose is as you read the report. You see the 200 page of the ball in warm all the contacts and all the Green Line to become engaged to the Russians and the expectation that they her artwork or help from. How can you say we wanted to see that Big Ten and future elections even if it didn't amount to a crime you're do we have a responsibility. First and foremost. Took protect our democracy crew are. Intelligence apparatus from the property returned and should we now have the imagination to write laws. That prohibit the contacts that occurred just into the prior congress didn't imagine that. Someone with actor in the when he that we've seen doesn't mean that a future congress shouldn't trying to does not elaborate but they. Last year called duty to protect and would put a burden. On any campaign campaign family member or candidate. To tell the FBI if they're getting approaches like the trumped in we're getting from the Russians. So it if that's your objective what is the rate process for the judiciary committee for the Intel committee both of which you sit on. To accomplish that because it does seem like bringing Mahler in. Really may not produce that much isn't he gives gonna say to you just refer you to what I wrote in the report. What we are subpoenaing and then dip in chairman Knut Nadler. Has just. Recently sent off subpoenas for the full reports of a grand jury information. Personal protected information. An ongoing investigation information and it's our belief that. Congress should receive all of that and then we can release of the public and protect any conduct armed only her house sources and nothing but we should we shouldn't. Have a full understanding. Of what occurred not hear about how would protect future elections that's how we hold anyone accountable that may not have. Met criminal culpability but the constitution still allows us. To hold them accountable and that's how we eat you'll also get a view until they are especially intelligent street. What the Russians are doing and may do in the future or what other countries with similar capabilities. Could do to us. And if we don't put in place. Reforms. So that's your step one is to gather the material what would be the logical step to in that process. He didn't hear from some of the pivotal witnesses I still you know looking back you know at Watergate at the big value from Watergate was the public. Understood. What was at stake and it wasn't because they read a report but because they listened to witnesses in to your point of the you know to the point about. Radio show hosts in the south saying that. When an innocent man a right to protect himself from this well if you're just reading a Thai activists and the back and forth on both sides. That's one thing but if you hear witnesses under old. Talk about you know what. The Russians were doing what it from campaign was not doing and telling the FDI and what the president was doing to lying. Cover this I think it will make the country more aware about what our adversaries. Can do and also. You know what level of conduct we would want out of approach. You're running for president though right and aren't too worried. I mean during the Clinton days investigating. Clinton backfired on the Republicans. Virgin words aren't Republicans I mean I mean that I'm just setting aside we shouldn't do what they do Brittany the Republican to 2000 they won the White House that won the house. They won the senate mean how can you say it backfired on a republic. What I'm saying is when he became the the investigative culture which you have the risk of doing. The Democrats becoming investigating like crazy the American people sometimes look and say. You guys don't give it. You know we were worried about our jobs and not all these damn investigations aren't you worried about that as a Canada. What it again I got it and I'm not endorsing what the Republicans could understand it it certainly could not quickly backfire on them in 2000 I look at their that the responsibility. To protect. The country to protect. Future elections and also book I can Balkans should go Mike in not only. You know walk and should come in the congress and do the investigation that are necessary you know advocate for gun safety legislation. Democratic reforms prescription drug reform but I'm also running for president so in racing to get under to do so. You know they want something done ask a busy person or moments like I'm I'm not worried and I'll I'll never apologize for believing that. We have to make sure beat elections belong to us. And never again can real our campaign took. Bring itself so close to necessary and not tell law enforcement. As approaches are being made. The congressman how exactly EDD that on the on the campaign trial in your capacity as Atari twenty contender dealing with the fact that Americans are. For example far more concerned about losing their health care then this investigation and then down the line looking forward I mean do you. You know he's I'd on the college so people could read my eye care so much about what direction do it is I believe they. One of course one of the transactional benefit from Donald Trump they got reduced sanctions and other. Diplomacy and he you know because crackers NATO looked in my. But what they were really doing their primary objective. Was to reduce our standing in the world. By getting rid of repairing downed IPO America that we are a country where you are other who are who devote. He can out of doing better Cintron in particular and if they can take that idea away from Butte crew. In Russia may not with and Moscow and they may not say hey. We want to have the opportunity you have an America we don't want a top scorer or cork the economy. We're only to benefit the economy though the popcorn and never went out the crime they wanted equivalence. Out of that and that's why I cared so much is because I benefited from a capitalist. A common it was a personal family or call my parents are at work. Out of that the company. I don't want it to look more like Russia I want it would be an America where bird or opportunity for all people and so it's ironic that the president. There's the Warren group. The democrats' approach socialism is actually for hypocrisy. Trying to stop us from what you've. But how concerned are you about meddling in the and a twenty ton election do you do you find it do you think the US is upon Ambon anyway you mentioned. Earlier Chris was talking about how. And divided the country as you said you've enacted legislation duty. To protect but is congress just too polarized to enact legislation to protects the country from. Rush and China and and does that concern you for Tony Tony the fact that it they're there be meddling in the auction. Most important that we just have to overwhelm the boat Bennett can't be denied by we can make sure that as we have a budget. Negotiations in the fall. The election security fund or zeroed out by the Republicans in the last congress are. Put back in place some states have. Election security capabilities but also just having a conversation with the country in using. The power to hold hearings and make the country aware of the organization of social media. That will also allow people to be better aware. Earned in. Interference campaigns are run. But it the end of the day if you don't have a president directing the intelligence community to counteract the series yes there's still going to be vulnerabilities are marking a over emphasize those vulnerabilities because I don't want people to not go vote could be papers vulnerability I wanna wanna go and vote. And elect a congress senate and a president federal protect us and the future. All right so I wanna play out because you use you raise an interesting point about the American public may be persuaded if they start to hear directly from witnesses you're one of the few people. In America who actually. Has gotten to speak with witnesses in person. Who did you speak with in all and all the interviews you did on your committee were. That you think of the American people just heard from him or from her they might be persuaded that this is something they should take more seriously. Well there were a number of witnesses say they printed in the way that people lie it also could be telling them to just keep the government doesn't assert after. Or tell the truth to be helpful there were a number of witnesses. Court one out of her way you know to protect. The president and then. That. Is also telling women than Charlie. There are people and am I'm Moroccan and maintained circular merlot ministership released transcripts and they'll speak for themselves. But they're also people very close to him who had very peak recall. Of event that occurred and they were very helpful. To our investigations so I'm I I just think having witnesses front and center as we get what Michael Cohen you know arm the oversight committee. That was helpful for the country to understand who this person it is. As a businessman and as a candidate. As a president and there's a lot more witnesses like him who saw a lot of distribute them. That there's one person that the Mueller team did not hear from. And that's the president himself. I I don't know if you had time to look through what they Rhode explaining why they didn't but it's clear that they wanted to interview the president and concluded that they simply. Didn't have the time. Or illegal breaths to to make that happen was that a mistake do you think should they have talked to the president. You know I'm a markets second guessed. Bob elected to have been helpful in the ecology it would have been helpful for the president you know to testify considering that the gaps. That existed. I also don't think we should take off the table for congress with if you were call. Presidents have testified. Good luck with the congress will watch that god with us yet we know it George Bush came port after September 11 it and you know met with. The independent. Not convention Carol ordered after the pardons was interviewed by congress I mean. Again I did come from us it is about to hit the market did nothing wrong. In what is good to him reason that you would want to be open with the American people he just acts. And but do you think people but you know I think the American people want someone like that I mean obviously a colleague of ours. Terry Moran was kind of saving that. People may be like that side of his personality and that's why he got elected that he's. A bull he and he screwed and I mean. He won I mean and and not one Republican not one Republican has come out. I do you know championing the smaller report here's Chris Christie on our hope Chris Christie said it wasn't a hoax but he still said it was a good day for the president. So not really warm Republican and and so do you think. He's. Yes other people could say it's a portrait of lies and how terrible the system it's clear obvious lie after lie. What is it about and the people are staying lock stock and barrel right behind them. What do you think. He's here is like accusing Hugo global coal. Minority. Here it puts people. And fear losing their job and the miracle so Parker were I think people only privately that they know what's going on is wrong. Now one woman on the intelligence committee told meet in the last congress. She wanted to support the independent commission legislation I have but she just couldn't do it because she said that her words should never have lopped off. Because of his supporters and to me at people who are saying. They're afraid of losing their jobs. And older brother also resin used up or know. I mean I've been Weisel covering Washington politics for a long time and I'm actually really surprised that and in no one has spoken right. Come on all of them you know right I don't and secured its. So monolithic I I think a good majority of people who. Do you know better. Our trade with America and what's stunning to me. I would hope if you're in congress you're otherwise import order so that they only god could get and that may be doing the right thing to do more important. Been keeping your job or that you would be rewarded doing the right thing but. That's what I've concluded from the people who I think. No power I feel like I'm on the right side in so many of us are on the right side of just saying this is wrong him accused here allow this. To happen and our country or at least we should trying to stop and it is I like jobs court. Aren't our mark and I understand at some popular some people in my district. Are willing to lose my job to do it enterprise rather than to go along with this president and your computer problem. It's interesting to me that you you'd you don't take impeachment off the table just given what we've heard from from the speaker. Do you see a scenario where they didn't do it through public hearings and other measures you can build support for that kind of action news they're tying for that. Goucher are currently there are certainly the crime unit which is a matter and ordered the widow. You're the congress for me to do it and and in Europe they couldn't run in the resource was swung into the Alder creek permit but certainly time Vatican first things first. I think during the promoter who's going to the really ratchet up the public's awareness and you know for people who. You know likelier than thirty years appear impeachable you'll never be able to remove him Republicans won't do anything I think that's the first point point here. Let mole or lay it out. But here his supporters describe the conduct and see where that leaves Republicans and where that leaves. The public it is people are worried about you know the political. Dialogue of this particular need to test it's just. Can't we allow to happen and do nothing and and set a precedent for future president that we would be willing to liquid got. Got a product quicker commute Kirk what I really don't look much stop group what the political consequences are. And congress that I know that you're not taking impeachment off the table on any name but what what do you say to your democratic colleagues who say this is the only answer and an impeachment is the only answer that's. Binyamin Ben may be right and then Donald Trump have to be removed from office particular matter this congress who have worked in the voters Stuart. I have more faith in the voters and but. Yeah they're going to be right there but that is the only answer I can understand I want to hear from Bob or not because I think that's gonna really helped the public understand. What this report was about the net I I. I can't compete under two edition I'm running around the country. It took me hours to read through the report most Americans. Or can have time to read to the report I think they will watch on bowler. In you know scene that we can and the consensus. You satisfied with the report do you feel like it was a success that we artery you know. Who do you think Doris colonel Laura do you billboard deserves credit for putting around and making public he didn't have to. No I'm and I think dope or should resign and I think he's trying to be the president's lawyer or America's border he's chosen. Now to mischaracterize the report accused may need to there's no evidence of collusion which is false there's but it did not meet. But beyond a reasonable doubt standard but there is 200 pages of evidence collusion he also said that the attorney general. Office of legal counsel opinions. But I'm not indicting a sitting president had not been a do what Muller's decision to not. Indicted for obstruction and Muller's report says that had a lot to do. What his decision and that's why he thinks congress shuttle Clinton arson that. He did not believe that the mortality was a congress Howell played any kinky he started a press conference concerning the president. Declared there was no collusion they can keep not the president's lawyer used to beat an independent. Lawyer who. Interest in partially presented the facts I don't think anyone compass and about what type. We could inherit the whole report secret though he could have just gone away and out of new and gotten this report told twenties I wanted to. Least 12% of it is secretly contacted each and I gathered up about 12% of the report. The secret you know about any of the report is been kept the pop. Shoot the White House get any credit though for and no executive privilege claims at all. Well they didn't need executive producer bill ball or black you know they could have they could have cited her privilege over sauvignon could've been more productive and it lives. I I don't really given much credit for anything immunity to see just but definite wires from my reports and now I guess I give him zero. Parents are big big takeaways. You sat down you read the report if you are now out in let's say Iowa to name a state. And you're gonna sit down with somebody and they sense that congressman won it. Explain to me when it is in the report that bothers you so much as they're under specific things in there that really rubbed you are. He needed and things change here there's an MSNBC reporter interviewing someone Council Bluffs about the -- report. And the person is upset about what the president did and I hear as from article in New Hampshire earlier in the week she said you tell all. That Washington press corps but people here care about the mower or. It's just that but. You know what you're told in Washington is that no one outside what they're about what happened and they do in what I would tell a person in Iowa what you should care about the most is that this should be a country where your hard work at up to something and right now. There are already too many people working paycheck to paycheck coming people who are just sitting on the top ports benefiting our corals are. Doesn't get by and we don't. We want to change. And black way to drink that is Serbs have a president who embraces. And or dark economy who graces and autocrat. And try to recruit him and who would allow them to continue to try and influence our election but our way of life away to. Attacks the crowd. The way that he goes above the law. That doesn't help your hard work that this agreement and I think that's how you private Hutu government and our sincere way that rooted in the acts. Well congressman has been great talking about this thank you so much for taking. Our artwork of thank you very much congressman Payne all right thank god and thanks to our listeners for joining us today please be sure it could subscribe leave a ser rating or submit a comment. We welcome your feedback remember that new episodes struck every Tuesday thanks to our producers preparations Sherman Crawford Caitlin fullmer Donnelly were chiles skeet. For Johnson Tucci not Moscow from folders and myself and Chris plus stoked. And we'll see you back here next week for another episode of the investigation.

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