Former Trump lawyer: Mueller probe is 'a terrible waste of time'

In episode 1 of the "The Investigation" podcast, John Dowd maintains that the president will be cleared in the special counsel investigation.
40:32 | 02/12/19

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Transcript for Former Trump lawyer: Mueller probe is 'a terrible waste of time'
A welcome to the investigation mind cure Phillips and this is our first episode and we are so glad that you are here with us now our goal here is to take you inside our task force here at ABC news as we're looking at those allegations of intrusion collusion and obstruction. All the things that special counsel is looking into as we wait for the Muller reports a drop by my side the head of our task force Chris blast out. You know it was twenty years ago Chris you're that guy behind. ABC news and one of the biggest stories we were the first to broadcast the allegations involving President Clinton White House intern Monica Lewinsky do you see differences similarities here. Listen. It's amazing to me to think that were in the situation right now because twenty years ago I thought the Lewinsky story was the biggest story of my lifetime. And actually I have to say there's nothing bigger than this Donald Trump story everything is is on steroids I meet every every investigation every lead. I don't know what's gonna come of the smaller report I don't know if there's going to be another impeachment. But I know that the world is watching and listening all the stories we've done over the last year and a half have been. Eaten up by the readers and the look and the listeners and the viewers of ABC news. I mean no one was paying this much attention to the Monica Lewinsky story but the one other big difference that everyone always asks me about the difference between Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. Is the fact you know Bill Clinton and the Clinton people were attacked. Ken Starr. Constantly. Every day destroy or tried to destroy the man but the difference was Bill Clinton had a other people do it Donald Trump. Does it himself I'd never seen anything quite like it so it's it's it's going to be an amazing thing to see what happens when Muller's report comes out. But it's not just you and me we get some help here Timor reporters of our task force Johnson teaching in Matt mosque and John you were they are from the very beginning when Donald Trump. Was coming down that escalator here I still remember the cramp I had in my leg that day when he was giving that a long ranting speech. When he got a piece of paper handed to us. There was a speech that day was four PGA's double space does stapled together. And I river looking over George Stephanopoulos who's with me and we both sit he's not delivering this speech. And I think that's sort of set the tone for what that campaign was and really what this White House has become cure would do everything that. Should be going according to plan should be calm should be smooth. None of it has happened this has been a wild roller coaster ride since that you know 2015. Launch somehow I haven't gotten seasick yet from I'm happy about that have brought it is. Going in ways I don't think anyone of us that word trump tower that date could have expected. And. And we're also joined by Matt mosque in that mosque has been. An investigative reporter Washington for a really long time and actually I remember Matt that during the election. You even came to me and certainly you know I hear these stories about Donald Trump and Russians and this guy named Felix -- and I can look did you. I think what's weird Dyson Kennison get out of my. I don't think I'm gonna let you forget that Chris she usually Luzader and that's why are all saying well any rationale I had no right doing you're talking about him I didn't really care. But but you're right. You will know that this all started there were really when and where it started there were doesn't how many. Republican candidates in the primary running for president in two when he fifteen and my job was to do background on each one of them. And when it came to Donald Trump this was this sort of sore subject that kept sticking out is what are these relationships in what was he doing with Russia and this is really before. Even anything Mahler was looking at. Happened a lot of the activity that happened was during the campaign and 2016 so it was a question that started very early on. You're right and we're actually those cure really lucky. He for our first guest who do we we have brought in John Dowd. He was at the how home. All of that president Trump's attorneys. Left actually in march of 2018. He's been around as you know Washington for a very long time Iran Contra Whitewater committee so he as all kinds of war stories investigated Pete Rose to that's right but right before his departure last march he handled the meeting the actual meeting with Mueller before. Leaving the White House he's the one that received those 49 questions from a Robert Mueller an whittled them down and decided what exactly. Would be turned over to special counsel. And John Q you talked to the White House a lot Hulu what do they think of John Dowd. You know it's interesting in the every one that I've spoken to his pretty positive on him. Com you know they felt that he when he was on the money he was a good. Direction for the trump legal team he was definitely fearsome tough one of the things it they're realizing Chris is that you know under the doubts leadership. You know you had about thirty White House aides who were going in. Doing these interviews with Bob Mueller. Nobody debrief them after these interviews which kinda seems like something you would do. On an average trying to realize that they have a treasure trove of information that nobody went and kind of dug up the treasury here but did they fire him John still there was a disagreement right it was around the time that he was giving a lot of public statements. He sees some people will say okay he was fired he'll say he left. He does seem like the president him when separate ways. Why can tell you doubt is gonna tell us they're still good friends that they talk on a regular basis. John even Rudy Giuliani. Agreed that the president and doubts still talk. Yeah and listen to it it's no surprise there cure because remember. The holding and they need to do here is legal team is that you have disorder check each other right because this is the third duration of the legal team first it was led by mark cas to which he was the New York lawyer that Donald Trump knew for decades okay. Now they get to DC they need a Washington insider. Enter John Dowd. John down believes now it's time for off and so Donald Trump brings in one of his friends someone that is no problem going on television blasting everybody. Rudy Giuliani. And and Matt you know John though did get control is a guy who's been Washington yourself a long time the fact that that he was overheard what it's some lunch. I grew as he he was having luncheon that blt which is a restaurant that's in the in the lobby. Of the building where the New York Times bureau is and they were out on the street in the patio. He and his fellow White House lawyer Ty Cobb. And they were chatting about the details of the case and right next that was in New York Times reporters covering the case and he couldn't help himself but I kind of seem like amateur hour when you do. You know Didier to a Dallas say he can delete someplace else I'm not worried Gary Martin hey my journal business to get we have but a distant conversation among friends but outside the New York Times. I mean come on and really it's right there you can't miss the sign. But let me. Just say one thing I really like about the fact that we are starting our voyage in this podcast with with John Dowd is. There's so much hysteria about the Mahler investigation and where it's gonna lead. And I think just like this sort of fairness of the American system you want to hear the president's side of it and I think to that. To sort of sober everything and take just take a step back I think it's helpful to hear the president's version of events and view on this case from the start. Well the question the top of everyone's mind the highly anticipated Muller reports she will it actually clear president trump and members of his campaign here now the man even talking about our conversation with president trounced former attorney John Dowd said John Ward is the Muller report is going to drop within the next couple of. Weeks only to be a report. The rules of the departments were no reports of what he's instrument what what what you think you'll be well I don't know I think on him and acclamation as the declaration that cycle you know. I'm written declaration. Are told my superiors who have attorney general. What I've declined did the internal investigation the FBI declined probably twenty cases. Legislators. Seem you don't think the public can see any thank you think it's forty million dollars Moeller investigated it and that's. But with the rules of the department just put yourself. Put yourself in the present shoes. And so we investigate you and it comes who would listen subject you cooperate transparently. We take almost actually civilians often here. The idea that you would take that information and make it public. You know violates a whole concept of the gray injury. What's the grand jury report to protect the innocent and by the way. I've read thousands agree insurers. It does protect the innocent I mean maybe one and ten cases she would break. But you would investigate sore right amount tar well organized crime. Public corruption here he'd he'd come to you come closer really feel awful stuff on the use of the crime is a prosecutable. No. Does that ever get reported. No so you're saying when Muller's report drops. It's gonna be a flop you're you're saying. We're not gonna allow all re shocked. If if anything. Regarding the president. Has made public although then. We're done. You know I were I should know the president has picked and his lawyers are from have been fairly transparent. I mean this you know everybody knows who witnessed he forum. The White House documentary and on the question. Particularly the community communications. White council. Was present which we gave to Bob somebody Bob I mean he's there's no time in history as they put it and this kind of look. And communications from the present do you respect what Mueller is doing I know you know Muller well well. I respected. Through the beginning and I started out it's Morris my style is post pro suicide until. Could. Could in my opinion. On March 5 we were dog. He had everything he said he had everything. He told me that no one had lies he told me they had every document we ask for PA toll there was nothing more. He told me that the president was on target that is he did not have any exposure. We use a witness subject which is perfectly normal for someone whose conduct you're looking. But they don't have exploded put people don't on the stand about the president and I think the same be what do you. Kissing you if you have too much information in your life. When you go back and talk about Flynn. Or call me. Those events while magnified in the media are not so. Not compared to the threat of the Soviet Union that's rather than. China dealing with Japan dealing with Korea coming into the amount of information that he and takes every day gets prepared for the staggering. And in my. Question him are talking call. Big question what you know first question easy second question easy third question. He wasn't sure. And he doesn't like being unsure. To you guessed. Vision trafford and it's not whether he lies about everybody wants kid this you know. This integrity business it's not a matter of integrity it's. Overload. John White and you and advise him to do an interview with Bob Mueller just let him sit down Bob Mueller and let him be interviewed what were you worried about. I was when I was word of. Here's. He really couldn't do it. He could no there's no way he could. You we have descriptive preference I told barbarous and washing just let descriptive. Because it. Flinn and pop of Kabul house gates. We look what Bob's to look. What I call nickel dime process cars. I ran big corruption cases hiding go around. Picking scabs and just making any case I could make if there was a petty case I shifted it to someone else I didn't do it and that's where. I disagree with Bob but the president and it. Take your presence lawyers ended up taking your advice right the Hindenburg by the way they didn't they never disagree movement. The team Giuliani in the restrooms to NJ never just remember. But what do you think Muller's been doing them that was march that you left. Great march of last year 2008 to. What do you Hawaii what do you think it's too similar so long I don't know all I can tell you is what I do know. I know a lot because. Because people upon though we communicate on this side of the fence. Fredricka pro veteran Tony should they do. And general without question the anyways I'm phrase conjures some very good people live. Home but it's been. It's been a waste of time. There's been Kennedy has been bureaucratic and you don't need to do that when you're dealing at this level. Good news is slow your plan the World Series OK. You know you know. You don't get with the petty stuff here what do you think the Democrats also if the report is submitted and now make public what do you think Colorado girl crazy like payrolls to. Little whining cry Republicans would do the same thing. But you know its use alcohol ordered to order grassroots as we can we're due to report from wall. Opponent proposal has no obligation all he is as a departmental turning nothing more. Okay that's I mean he he vies for the rules and by the way his got to go up. Scouting Walter Bahr really you must snowblower rather well. I soon you know I don't know I've got to know all of helmet and I'll left right left the department when he was attorney general but he was a great attorney general he did a terrific job. And I am so we use it is going to be back because he knows the place. Top to bottom he's very bright and he's gonna do you're gonna call parade down the middle and do a good job. That's quite the opposite from what you've said about the leadership of the Justice Department any new edges lambasted. You know everybody else previously so. You're seeing a shift here. Well look. In I try to deal roses and early on we rural letter to mall or. Saying look the call he's he accuser in this holy. Investigation. We think there are other issues and we're regarding his conduct this is the origin of this holders was. Turns not only was our right. But Colby admitted that door no facts to investigate the president on the original collusion. So calm. Tara down eyes so Bob silly one look about it. So our road to road he's seen him blew me off that's our leadership best on accountability. It's a very serious immune very serious and we did in writing we did it politely we do to confidentially. Dias blue a soft so I lost all respect. Ferraro's. Concessions I don't know what he was still I'm not sure if such as those who used to. Michael Cohen we've got to ask you about Michael Cohen. The joint defense agreements what did you learn from the Michael Cohen investigation. And what does Michael Cohen know. How futility knows that I can never discussed. Joint defense because your confidential communications we've just bridges and briefed by Kerio little windows on what he was. Gonna tell house and so. Another thing. Yeah Michael Cohen. Hill has she's going great Joseph. Putting a rope around this time when you saw what the southern district of New York to breeding him he was the president's lawyer. Cut the time credit or one of only was he was. He was a minor personal war or on some personal. Do your client. Is prolific Tweeter and as a lawyer to bet that must have frustrated to them must. So it's just imagine it's just a fact of life hugest deal was as best she can an armed car maariv. Suggested three just duty and he wanted to between Obama's. Made a suggestion. Sutter and of course. Taylor Manuel encourage you will not that we cover all the other tweets how about all his tweets. I don't do you think you're causes damage or makes it worse. It's gasoline fuel to the fire someone else. Evaluate. We got a job done I don't wanna I don't want you know take sides and that debate. The you know. What are rather normal way blue of course what book the president as the president Arnoldo I don't know what I've got to my hands. And then a final like Erica rose exit. But the whose friend of mrs. advocate. I know what to cases there is no case. And my job was to sign a bring their home. We we did the very restaurant through embryo wanted to get this coming home I think it's come home had a serious initiative could you know than he can there. People intrusive. And most social surprise. You that I know exactly what he has to. I know exactly what every witness said to every document says I know exactly when he asked. And I know what I don't want beetle with of what that conclusion were resolved those what does he have what's the result what's the conclusion the clock and personal basis. Pistol exposure. It's been a terrible waste of time what's worse is let's hear it on the other side of this however all oh. This is one of the greatest frauds this country's universities. And I'm just shocked that far more didn't call it that way and say I'm being used. I would've done that. Powered his shoes in this thing. Regardless sessions and Rosa C and said look. This is nonsense we are being used. Clerical ball on the FBI. To get even so what do you say all army into corruption hasn't been you know we is staggering. And that's how this all happened and by the way. Look at what the work be eyewitnesses who said. I don't want I don't want no collusion. We Cole pre. Do nothing about collusion so what are we doing that employees say to trounce relationship with Putin what do you say. She used the discussions about a trial Moscow deal. Everything that's out there every Oslo deal there was no deal. Trump believes he can pretty good deal of food and you know he's he's found out what it's like fuel and food. He's been educated like every president is educated. However Hillary Lewis did the reason but I mean what a joke so overall we don't. Thing is who you president you can hear continue to results you have to do what you have to do much good though there's nothing else there's no project in Moscow. They have every document. Tony mankind's mess hall. Ginned up nonsense but they have they have all the bills they have to save yourself to have to coincide. There is nothing more because they know it and not only do they haven't put that question people of an exhaustive. But looking forward to put your crystal ball. For the next two years of this president six what do you say we're what do you say for now policy. You've been in Washington long time in the you know I didn't come here investigation. All I cannot lower doses I guess they're heroes gonna do what they're gonna do. Column. And I expects. The White House was ecstatic KN will cooperate. But I don't think it'll be shy about. It's privileges so you Dari deal with the by the French government cannot deal more who's the executive big deal. Plea deal also. Says so. For historical reasons for constitutional reasons. They got to be careful. How do you think history will look them over investors. Ten years from now twenty years from now. Not well Robert Mueller how he go down in history. It's. You have to sort of Donald. It's hopeless come there live a Maryland who have bigger heartened me swallow. But as you know. And all constant challenge us. But he but he no cover his glory Norman is former he's lost. He governs this country all right well thank you John thank you should thank you so much. Heartless to get quick break we got a lot to talk about it for us. Welcome back to the investigation I'm -- Phillips once again here with Chris blasted the head of our task force and two of our top reporters Johnson teaching in -- mosque let's break it all down guys fillets -- in court where we're and we start folks who hasn't really been injured in so well and according to John Dowd if you listen to our interview. He thinks this is going to be over very soon and we're not going to hear anything explosive you know whatever John Dowd had in the greener before he did the interview you guys I would just like a couple of that would be really great any that would help us kinda get through the day and a good piece of it might be -- to say that it's all gonna be over and done with Matt I don't agree and I think now we know what. The president says there's nothing here in this and which and because he listens to people like John Dowd. Ku if you listen to him that sure sounds like this is going nowhere he says he's he knows what every witness is senate. And he knows exactly what Mahler has and there's not even going to be a report he says that. There's going to be nothing quite yet but he's on the inside though he heat he's he was Trump's attorney he was at the Helm of of his of Trump's legal team YE a wire and Qiyue believing Nestle. Which has never members he laughs he's not a part of the legal team right now. This story every day I mean you feels like this snowball is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And the one thing that we learned after John Dowd a laugh to working for Donald Trump. He's been the almost thirty White House staffers that went in and met with Bob Mueller steam. They didn't speak to any of them and in due debriefing sessions they don't know exactly what Bob Mueller has learned from these. Hours long Lin drew some of them and as Chris Matt nine others have been reporting have gone from multiple sessions that this. Yeah John but German Carl. There are a reporter here has been out the set on this week that he thinks this reports going to be anti climactic. And that's exactly what turned out was so. John deficit rejoined went even further in that isn't there be no report at all. In fact that the Justice Department couldn't issue do we do we think that's right do we think there's not going to be a report in a La I think technically. John doubted his right back could happen but I don't think politically. Now we did it you can survive in this town. With nothing simple and it in his suit his we'd eat get any sort of inform. She ended the special counsel is finished and turned things over the Department of Justice. I mean there's going to be a countdown clock to when were actually gonna learn something because you have all of congress wondering watching waiting. Trying to clear where this is going the president. Has been singing for quite some time he wants answers as well that was part of what Dowd sat right how much money they spent on this how much time this is gone on for. Everybody just wants no hate. What is it what way or the other what's the price tag now forty billion. Knowing what things that you said 40000040000040. Million I had but I don't know I think that's the high I think that is the trump number I'm not sure floats it's definitely millions of dollars Ono tens of millions of dollars John Dowd is Ben there done that if you look at his history and his background his reputation and. This guy any you know I agree and write what shocked me even more is how we attacked Mahler. I mean that was not Rudy Giuliani sitting out. Then he's in New York lawyer in town and is Washington establishment he lives here he's been here for forty years and for him ago. Trash. Odd when only. And what this is my dollar was picking scabs that's how he described this investigation which his. Pretty harsh when you think of what what Mueller has put into the businesses what's ironic they're going back to you said Chris how he was attacking Bob Mueller. One of these things that we had been hearing we reported it that John Dowd was telling president trump. Don't attack power mower that was his legal advice don't tweet about it don't go out and and it was after John Dowd left. Rudy Giuliani comes into this show and that's in the attacking actually started. So tipping did. Doubt is that almost going against his own advice that even giving the president his client for months eight inches fascinating I think they'll be introduced terrific. But the one thing you did say that I think we'd all agree and seems to be the consensus on our reporting now is that even when Muller's done. There he conform and even John Dowd was saying keeping you're supposed to farm it out to other US attorney's. You again and then he was pretty clear on this. Mueller was there to do collusion everything else should be farmed apple and look at what Matt. And I had reported just a couple days ago dead prosecutors in New York southern district have served a subpoena. On to the president's inaugural ready out of the shark tank and into the lion's den in the southern district in New York those guys are total killers and they obviously are building a big cases I was at the real threat here it's part of the real threat but I think doomed is backtracking a bit. We've been hearing for months that witnesses brought before the special counsel's team we're being asked about the inaugural being asked about donors about events who attended what did benefits that I get if I donated a certain amount of money. Now obviously preserving we can tell Bob Muller's team is taking no action. For their part on that what they did is they took everything they guy. Put in a box up of the facility in new York and now we see it in action network which is subpoena from the southern district. Right in the same thing with the case against Roger Stone longtime political advisor to trump. We saw in the courtroom with the prosecutors the other day there were US attorneys from the district office from the Washington DC office who were not part of Muller's team. These are the people who are gonna take over the case in carry it forward. A sign I think that the Mahler did everything we're hearing about Mueller being almost done. And the thing that's intriguing. Is if if John John doubts right. And Bob Mueller just does tackle a nation and nothing happens. I don't I don't know what's gonna happen in Washington I think I think every democratic member congress is handle extra hurdle for me annually and explosive who will be something we've never seen his silence would be definitely hear it would be humble. What you did did you guys catch and I thought this is interest seeing them because. John Dowd was in charge of taking those 49 questions from. Mohler men and figuring out PO which questions the president would answer and scripting them in airing it down. And and I asked him why didn't you just let the president go win for an interview. And and did you see I was sort it hesitated because he was talking about how he knowed trump says what he thinks any just keeps going in and. He he he talks passionately in our trainer read between the lines like what was he think it now would be dangerous you know what the president going there and do an interview. But then said that he's he suggested. And script teen. A live interview that trump. Would do he said you know I I was I was. Gotta let him go in there is long as we could script what he said to Robert Mueller in person did you catch I don't that was which is eventually what they've done. Income is like can you imagine they were face to face do you really think trump would stick to a script. The state debate two actually heals that Iran Contra that that's right because one thing Lisa looking at trump all throughout the campaign is that he's done. A lot of videotaped depositions and then when he does says he's very disciplined Wright and John done. Did say that he he he even so that in this interview saying this is not a man who was unfamiliar with the being in thin legal proceedings. You know he just as opposed to this. State of the union and he speaks one way and then you see and that one of these rallies and he's he's completely differently and the president is still talking to John Dowd the I mean you can't say that he got thrown out but they're still very good friend with a mighty monster I was just gonna see it and nobody ever leaves this story it is that they don't if you're fired by Donald Trump in almost is like all you more access to a now as a badge of honor -- think about Corey Louis nasty is an example right the first. Campaign manager thrown at a trump tower he couldn't get a ticket to. Inaugural. People trying to get at him but annual he's he's at the White House he's talking the president he's the Vieira on election night he's there the next morning as part of the transition council which is in the doghouse or used in the doghouse. Rudy at the moment I think he's. OK. I wouldn't say one way or the other we're really is because I really don't think we now. Oh I I think Condo will be having dinner the White House as soon as his party's loyal to the president he. He isn't he is loyal to the president that he himself. Dinner invitation. Jessica. Wonderfully to get invited to that dinner communal work on ethnic. I met with what would you look at the price I don't want to predict what's going to be in the report but I would say that. What I am most interest again that we haven't. There are a lot of. Loose threads that I don't think have been tied together. And the one I most interest and I think is Michael Flynn. We heard colony about Michael friends cooperation at his aborted sentencing hearing that we we were told Michael Flynn cooperated. Fully and completely there were multiple sessions he spoke with and what the prosecutors are hours. And we know very little about what he shared and yet we also know that Michael Flynn. Was any regular presence on the campaign and in trump tower during the transition pianist Joseph and city was treason. People who. Well unlike some of the other characters in this drama. He is a decorated military man I was passing real little background this guy came in that is as and decorated military. Everybody was talking about how he was adding some some rather all scrap its cost there we go thank deal. And and never in his speech. Is the very beginning he was cut in the beginning. I have everything. It's not just. Flynn I mean we really don't know what Michael Collins either. In terms of the lower portion of the investigation wall and remember in the sentencing that that was the one area that prosecutors said he was very helpful that's right. So we don't know what that part this John data say he's a proven liar and he doesn't have a little you know and Jon doubt though is right in saying. Elijah Cummings and the congressional people are gonna put him as their first witness who moved here he says big mistake he had a he's not I mean. He's not totally wrong you want to build the case and then have your argument not just keep it day he's right in calling out. The house and saying it it's just public expect OK but in fairness though on the flip side the other thing that John Dowd said he called Michael he's a minor personal lower and that's. After its section titles call Mario's and sent Michael did a great job putting a noose around his own neck which I thought it was a creative way and describing Michael self destruction and on that aspect if you're putting Michael Cohen next to Michael Flynn. And it does have a pretty distinguished background in the military that can't be ignored. As some sort of but he came in with controversy sure Barack Obama said she Donald Trump that first Oval Office meeting warned him about Michael full and a lot of people were warning trump not to go near this guy but. Did anyway so up to this point where we are now. Most memorable. Moment for you of how we got here. May ninth 2017. Jim colonies fired I mean that that was just like that day that started everything and I remember. We were over the White House for for some meetings I'm related to things. And I just remember. A buzz of activity we know what was going on it was very weird. And we're walking out and I'm a member of our team had a tip that something was up somebody was gonna be fired we know specifically why. Com and about three minutes before a statement came out from the press secretary's office. Jon Karl broke the news that the president had just fired FBI director Jim Komi. And you just remember saying. Why it is happening. Right just where this all playing out trumps a long time body man going in delivering the letter to Jim call me directly. Eight leeches like these how this is gonna have to play out warehouses Salgado of all and I just remember that day. First what we were here to lake midnight but second of all I just remember saying this just felt like. Hole lead we know what moment they just felt like this is where everything is in doubt. To change and it did I don't think it's one moment I think the most pivotal the fact that. When Donald Trump was running for president over an extended period of time he did not think it that he was gonna win. Ultimately I think will be the most significant contributor to what we see in the Muller reports for a bunch a reasons. He didn't think he was gonna win so he was pursuing a business venture. And Moscow the Moscow trump tower. He didn't think he was gonna win so he had this go for broke attitude like if somebody can get me as Hillary Clinton emails maybe this'll really be the thing that brings an over the line for me. I think it was that insecurity. Bet that drove a lot of the behavior we've been hearing about. This entire etc. and I are I agree if you map because arbor recently Paul man of course. I mean who in their right mind would become campaign chairman of the campaign knowing. That you had laundered. Tens of millions of dollars. Because he I think never thought Donald Trump was gonna win. And and so all of this at the end of the day when we sit I think Eric so that you guys says we've covered the story. And many people believe that this was flicked the producers under a whole Mel Brooks. Above Broadway Show and movie in the sense that no one around trump ever thought he was gonna win so everyone was looking for an angle. To how to profit off of it whether it was Michael Cohen weather was Paul Paul man a four Felix later all these guys and even George power but obelisk. I mean. They love they were the doctors caught the car. They they didn't know I think we're gonna do when they got there they never thought they'd be. Regret and means that point also like we don't we talk about your trumps teen who's around him. And must not forget when this all started this was about five people. Working around cinder blocks which was the old set of the apprentice on the fourth floor trump tower that they there was no it is and you are I mean you we did a meeting there literally are an Irish shocked and there were. What Hillary Clinton had 800 people and brought it will Brooklyn tower and and we can't help them penalize people yeah. 10 am and really that's the reality I think Chris Christie does say it sometimes. Then he may be half right. In the sense of saying he was so some home. The campaign guru what conspiracy there's no when to conspire with the Muller team seems also completely. Completely professional completely by the book Peterson a person that we've talked to who's gone into an interview with Mahler you know who has come out and said anything different they've all said it. They know everything about me they know all about what I was doing they were professional and courteous. Everything that we've heard is that this is the textbook investigation. The only thing we don't know about it is analytic. Cool and kind you see one detail that we've now heard release for five people that have gone and met with Bob Muller's team. They all described one specific moment. The same way. Some point during their extensive hours of sitting there with the team Bob Mueller who walks in. He'll say hello he'll sit down for a few minutes. And then he walks out. No one's actually had from every conversations we've had a Mac correct me but no one's actually being physically he's Jewish or alive Bob Charlie's Angels. He if I'm. I mean yeah it's just it's fascinating. It's so intrastate that every. Tells that story it's like we're that we all the room together as spies sleep because I but nobody put but I actually do think though to Matt's point though and is that he so bide the book. And their soul and act and that's where go back to drowned out this report could be enough I mean by the rules. John Dowd is correct it could just go over he could say. Jacqueline nation. Whatever criminal activity. And that's it that that's where the big that I guess that's where the biggest question mark gaze is he so by the book that he's gonna give us something. Then everybody doesn't even want to bother reading or. The other thing that we constantly hear about this team of prosecutors is that they are killers season the Enron guys three guys who get their release of the G men who get their man like these are the ones to. Know how to close a case. And will that be the bomb on an emergency the into the. All right we did it in the first show is in the books there's a lot of ground to cover though let's be clear and we're excited to have you joining us on this journey will be surety hit subscribe OK and leave passer rating and a review that will go a long way to helping other. Folks find us very well for my colleagues Chris last so Matt mosh Johnson to cheat I'm cure Phillips we'll see you next time an investigation.

This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.

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