Transcript for Chris Christie: 'If the president were to pardon himself, he would get impeached'
We're joined here live our legal team Chris Christie and Dan Abrams that of the new book this week Lincoln's last trial a murder case propelled into the presidency is out on Tuesday at its history fascinating history welcome to both. The UK you've also read this letter. Now in seen the interview it seemed to me that that mayor Giuliani walked back a couple of the most central claims in that letter. I'll two of the most controversial points right number one this idea. That he's now saying that they could fight the subpoena. Not just ignore meaning ignored a subpoena means no matter what happens even if the judge were to instruct us for whatever reason. That he's got a testified we wouldn't have to abide by that. Mayor Giuliani now saying that's not the case also just it will take it to court exactly what fight did OK fair enough that's what one would expect them to do if that ever got to that point which I don't think it's going to I still don't think they're gonna subpoena. The president. And then number two this idea that the president can simply just. And the investigation. That simply be obstruction there's no such thing when it comes to the president again it seems mayor Giuliani's walking that back. As well so now this letter has much less of a bite I think. Then before we heard. Mayor Giuliani the army not shocking that lawyers would make. You know broadest claims they possibly could with a program that obstruction of justice all that is brought a mix and that's why I think the mayor Giuliani said this morning. But that's not the case he doesn't agree within. At least you can tell any time that that really in the gruesome things that got this John about go back to drive that it's an outrageous claim it's wrong. They were trying to make a port organ where's do that all the time in brief seemed to court and Dan I've seen that many times happened in the end. Cooler heads prevail here George and it the president is going to have to you know acknowledged that. If there's a subpoena which I agree with that model you don't think he's in our do nothing that isn't having been someone who had to meet these compensations for seven years is US attorney. You you're not gonna wanna swing for the fences on that one swing in this battle may Kate a real really will discredit the investigation. If he does I don't think he's gonna need to and I quite frankly I do group the mayor in this I don't they've shown anything I've said this to you for months. That should compel the extraordinary step of subpoenaed but. But then what happens I want to ask you both this it's also pretty clear from listening and actually kind of this morning hard to imagine presence gonna do. And it is he's not going to be subpoenaed he's not gonna do an interview. What does Mueller do that. Well look I think that Mohler probably agrees with the general sentiment. Which is that a sitting president can't be intact right so if that's the case bowlers not preparing an indictment against the president the United States no matter what he thinks. I think you're going to see potentially other indictments. From Mueller that don't necessarily rook are connect to the president himself. And then there's going to be a report. An instruction launch one answer to and a in that report by the way Moeller could decide we believe that the president obstructed justice. Even though they're not going to indict him and basically handed over with recommendations as we can start. Whether without the president's testimony yeah I think he can do you have an inning and in the end I think that this that the key to this Georgia's the president. At this point. Should never ever walk into that room Bob Barr and I think. We decision for the reasons that Rudy said one that you're ushers I can make a mistake not sure he's gonna tell. What he's gonna say get a match up with what other witnesses are saying wolf Porsche you can never be sure that and you don't know those witnesses were telling the truth. And he quite frankly I think he's got me very god point regarding the IG report. You know hopefully dep report comes out next week and I think it's gonna say a lot of damning things about what was going on the FBI regarding Hillary Clinton investigation and that. Investigation is no doubt in my mind from being observer to time. That what Jim Colby did. In October of 2006. Team certainly change the conversation you gotta that was the reason the president trump fired him. For back yeah you listen there's so many different places are my children get when he says we say this. I think this team before the show if I had done as US attorney when Jim Coleman was the deputy attorney general what Jim told me himself that is FBI director he would've fired mean five set. Fair enough but that he did that and that hurt Hillary Clinton. Yeah OK as a way to put the process that's fun to hurt the process of hurt Hillary Clinton but it didn't hurt Donald Trump and the notion. That now that they're saying oh well the reason James Cole he was fired because what he did was so unfair to Hillary Clinton right that's the argument. Well look that's an argument what wisdom. Was an absolute misuse of the party is often get back to live listen. As of now isn't as a former governor that's a perfectly simple reason Webber Courtney but then I read your not a when you're coming into office not a reason fire Foreman I you don't get as as we as we discuss reporters the transition was not quite as smooth running machine. And so those decisions may be should make Arnold say this I recommended to the president elect at that time if you're going to fire combing to it now meaning. In the transitional individually or January. One thing in India and very Giuliani didn't want to go too deep into this it does appear now that the FBI had there was no misconduct in these sits at the inform. Well look and also that it Giuliani saying we know we've been here for a year we haven't gotten information as to why would they get information on this and it this informant right. He's working let's say is working in conjunction with the FBI what ever context. Why would they turn it over this is an ongoing active investigation. And there's zero. Zero to indicate that there was anything improper. About this mean calling it spy gate. Doesn't necessarily mean that there is a quote on quote spy involved as opposed what we see every day and the konduz are literally just outraged. Well listen I. I think again this is one of those shifting sands argument that's gonna change over the course of time. And maybe go away unless you see convert misconduct by the FBI which give no weapons of yet. I'm in any way I will tell you as a prosecutor I wouldn't have turned it over. That information to the other she lied to the present no I would never meet you know the thing I said I that was of the most gripping mystery was only I knew what I knew. Bob Mueller understands that and as soon as the FB IC you don't you'll Willy Nilly turn that stuff over you just don't I was at some point you see misconduct she would but you don't do. I don't know that shifting sands are just throwing sand as we've sort of feels like more to me could be RBI could be harmful if. We left open the possibly the president pardoning himself even though he says he doesn't expect to view it. He would have the right to do it. Let's listen if there's no way I don't happen and the reason it won't is because then becomes a political problem George. If the president were pardon himself who can impeached. And not going to be I think I think we all agree that that it's so unlikely candidate that that that that Moeller will seek to indict a sitting president that that issue simply won't come up. But is present all that means there's with the cardinals he is he is executing now. Is the president sending signals to those caught up into the hot issue. I you know I the president I think is X excluding the pardon authority in a more aggressive way than most persons have in the past. But I don't think you can then read that interview but he wants to read that it's what I don't think you can I think this the president was not a lawyer. Who's never held executive position before when he sees what he gets her to be an injustice he wants to fix it immediately that's Donald Charles putting out the share. Arpaio. Pardon from a while ago right which is actually sort of very troubling us a lawyer because he was charged with contempt of court for ignoring a court order. President basically said the outlook on minute pardon them for any crime in connection with this that was well before. We started having this conversation took I think it may be more about sort of flexing. His political muscles and showing a disdain. For the these types of crimes. That he is being investigated for that's different then sending a mess. I would say George though that I would caution the president to be very careful on the Blagojevich. Potential commutation. I don't think it's a minor crime for governor having been a governor war pointed to US senator myself. I don't think it's a minor crime for governance that what what's in his foot that Martha Stewart what's it for me. Martha Stewart. I would be less offended by amorphous to report although I don't know the specifics as well as I should but I think in the boy missing having been in the same position as a governor. But it you know a senator who leaves office in the case of some remember. Dying. If I ever thought about in that appointment hey what's it for me can be a little bit that's in that crime. Good it was convicted of seventeen. Chart similarly you know what let's be clear charge a 2017 to me got commission Martha Stewart looked the best. And and you can argue that if that's the case then you'll pardon it's not so outrageous and I suffered at the connective tissue here. She can only tell you I don't I Pat Fitzgerald are involved in all the things we just off the let's hope it's not just famous people who get pardon if if the pardon powers going to be used that's that's where today thank you both very much.
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