Transcript for The Death of George Floyd: Day 7 recap of Derek Chauvin's trial
From ABC news life. The death of George will Jerry show been on trial. Hello everyone day seven of the trial of Derek Shelton for the killing of George Floyd has come. Concluded it was a day that the jury. That their attention was focused by prosecutors and if the defense team. On the question of the training in the use of force in the appropriateness of the use of force by Derek show and that knee on the neck on George Floyd at the end of the day. The prosecution's first expert witness Sargent Jodi Steiger of Los Angeles police department of 28 year veteran of that police force coming to Minneapolis. To save point blank. That in his opinion as a veteran officer is somebody who has studied his issues live them practiced them what their children did was an excessive. Use of force they also heard from members of the Minneapolis police department on the kind of training that dare children hat. Including. As some good some very inching test and the testimony from Nicole MacKenzie she is the medical coordinator of the Minneapolis police department she. Helps organize the training. That every police officer receives annually on how. To administer CPR and provide other medical assistance to people come into their custody that's important in this case because of course. George Floyd's life could have been saved. Had as children or the other officers administered. CPR earlier that is certainly the argument the prosecution but on. Cross examination Derek children's lawyer the defense lawyer Eric Nelson. Brought out this topic that is at the heart of the defense case. The drugs and the drug use that dad Derrick good that George Floyd had and their impact on. That kind of person he would have been in custody the possibility that he could have been in the state of what is called heightened to delirium. And what that might have meant. Here's what Nicole McKenzie told the jurors about that under examination from Derek show Vince lawyer Eric Nelson. And generally speaking. Without reviewing to your. Training tears can you describe what you train Minneapolis police officers on how excited where. This is a class that is talks at the academy in. It's a one hour block of prison didn't want government one hour block of instruction contrary no signs and symptoms. Thanks a killer and ends your best responses. Four handling mount. I'm so excited delirium is accommodation. June 2 water education. Psychosis. Hypothermia. Why Koreans need you. The things you might see in person or relative. Bizarre behavior. Com. And into recognizing that this is a medical condition not necessarily a criminal matter. Would that include an. I'm discussion. Controlled substances. You know you in the context of excited delirium. Yes indeed Hillary usually Eugene incidents. Most of the people that it's our experiences been like excited delirium. Usually errors I'm Melissa firms on board that might be contributing factor. The end as far as. What I'm what do you training Minneapolis police officers are relevant to. The physical attributes of a person experiencing its territory. The person might be experiencing an entire army entered him is elevated by temperature. That can be displayed let me just take off her clothes sin and a place not appropriate to take her clothes or like middle of one person like. And should batten just based on our activity there hurry my idea and extremely elevated. And they might be. In some clips you came. Insensitive to pain and Nicole McKenzie also testifying about the quote superhuman strength someone in. That state of excited delirium might have and I want to go to. Are kept mode and on the scene in Minneapolis is he has been from the beginning right outside the courthouse there and Kenneth. This is important test though it came in a prosecution witness this goes to the heart of what the defense wants to say about what happened. To George Floyd that there were drugs in his system that he was full of energy in a heightened state of anxiety and strength and resistance. And that therefore the force used was reasonable. Terry I think the phrase of the day at least in the eyes of the defense may be excited delirium and we know that. I'm also McKenzie tests by officers are taught to recognize symptoms of excited delirium someone exhibiting. Bizarre behavior how illicit drugs may be a contributing factor MacKenzie also testifying that a person's heart rate might be extremely. Elevated and that that person that may be insensitive to pain you mentioned they're passing bird human strand. And really Terry we've talked about this over the past few days especially. This is. And more I guess evidence or proof of why it's hard to convict a police officer. In these deadly encounters because yes police officers have a dangerous and atop. Job but when it comes to the bar that's sad it's pretty high when it comes that burden of proof to show that a police officer. You know allegedly committed a crime when a person dies and their custody and so. Here jurors are hearing about what an officer potentially had to do away. In this instance and the situation. And if they're hearing about a suspect and that's super human strength. They're taking notes on that they're paying attention to that. And you'll remember that one of the other officers who was on that scene former officer Alain yes that was heard a body here saying that he was concerned. That he was concerned that Floyd. May have been suffering from excited delirium he. That term. As those really one of the presumptive for that terms heard that term upon by the camera video and so now it's in the court record. And now you have the defense jumping on that they tenements in some of that in the opening statements there but you see here. We saw in court the state actually objecting. To the line of questioning from the defense was a sidebar the judge came back and then he excuse. Officer MacKenzie. But then did the defense plans to call her back after the prosecution Rask. To testify on excited delirium delirium training likely next week when the defense has her chance to call witnesses theory. Read their remarkable development where. She was offering so much for the defense that they want to make this police officer prosecution witness their own witness and it really gets Kenneth today. That there are difficult facts that prosecutors must deal with the as they try to convict. Derek show Rene and those facts include that George Floyd didn't resist arrest. Vehemently and add it to some degree when they tried to put him in. The police vehicle and that there were drugs in his system. It's in that those are things that the prosecutors must deal with in this case. In order to convict Derek showman. They have to demonstrate that regardless of George Bush condition or actions what children did. Was unlawful and resulted in his death. Exactly and that is why we've seen prosecutors cannot take. That line of questioning and their line of questioning take these issues head on to talk about the drug defendant on the methamphetamine down. And George voices system asking some of their witnesses were all just because you have some wine who had initially resisting. Potentially drugs in his system but what if they stop resisting what is the for a call what does the police policy. And use of force policy when it comes to dealing with a suspect like that. And what we heard from those witnesses is what they stopped resisting. What's it looks like their medical distress offices are trying to take action on those aspects they're trained to lie if a person of the medical distress. To help them to render aid if it looks like they stopped resisting. Then you essentially left out you take that need off that suspect's neck or back. I'm you just that you reassess the situation which is why we've heard about that credible decision making model again we heard about yesterday we heard a lot about it today we heard about it. First thing when officer in game. Who helped implement. He essentially. Helped bring that critical decision making model to the Minneapolis. Police department it was approved by the police chief but he brought it to the department and so he was almost treated as an expert on this but then as you mentioned there was and state. Witness in the state expert this comes you know really our objective third party viewer who was. Team manager testified that what he saw was unnecessary as he laid out his credentials and then told the jurors that what he saw there was Sharon get was. Totally unnecessary. Hot it's unclear right now why the defense and have their turn. Today if they wanted to turn wet that expert witness how we do know that court sort of pretty early this morning. We think that's why he had just cited her journal of early. And given a regular let's go to that sound. The expert witness called by the prosecution. Sargent Jodi stagger the Los Angeles police department brought into this case is Kenneth says as as a third party opt out of the direct involvement in this case in any way who reviewed the mintier is all that video and and everything that can be gleaned out of this case and rendered. His opinion on what dare show and did. Harry this decline your review of the different materials. You have. Conducted in this case can be supplying your own experience. And training and launch force. Have you reached an opinion guess is that degree and amount of force use I had the defendant mr. shot and I'm George Floyd. Yes. Standard you can tell you guys ask you to explain the jury a little bit about what process or methodology. You go through two renders such an opinion. Com there's a few steps. The main step is going through their objective reasonableness standard which is based off the ground vs Connor. Be looking at the seriousness of seriousness of the crime. Look at the person's actions. Things of that nature. As love looking the specific agency's policies and procedures as well. In addition to do you know seriousness of this crime under Graham standards do you look at any other factors. Tom. The try to get a number of factors what what was known to losses at the time. And the united say who one of the biggest thing to look at is what was the person's actions at the time that the officer was using force. In this upon being pure review of these materials and in light of the Graham backers. What is your opinion as to this degree of force used by the defendant mr. Floyd. The data in question. So. My opinion was that the forces access. And that to death the prosecution's case has put. To the through the expert witness Jodi stagger them to go back to Kenneth mountain. And and Tim this is one way it's an important way but one way that prosecutors are trying to convince jurors that beyond a reasonable doubt that. Derek children's actions were unlawful and excessive and led to the death of George Ford and others is what you were just talking about. That that duty of care as it were that there were there were other options there than just impressed than the and the knack for nine minutes and 29 seconds and system that is common sense and here's the X protested. And we'll save that has an impact on this jurors they've been hearing from people who know Minneapolis police know the policy no dare show man. But here we have some wine who again he listed his credentials. He listed what he's gone through he's got decades of experience even better and law enforcement officer yes he's with the LAPD he's not part of Minneapolis police department but here years. As an observer third party observer who can take a look at. The the situation here look at the investigative information. And and and render this conclusion that he finds that what Derek servant and was unnecessary. Our and then he will be back on the witness stand to mar this struggle rural long at a at a at a pretty good clip. Did the judge. You know you're making sure that did the jurors are comfortable good but making sure they hear a lot of testimony every day. I how's it going and then when what's ahead. What's ahead as I'm state investigators will likely take the stand. I'm starting tomorrow or police may be potential for that's a witness in the defense get the chance. After the State's expert witness if they decide not to them we expect for the state to move along here. And for us to hear from state investigators the bureau of criminal apprehend half apprehensions that is. They are that state investigative unit. That came in to investigate this accident after it was the pair of critical incidents. And that Minneapolis please realize that they needed to not turn this over to the state. We're investigating and so these agents will likely testify about exactly what they found what they saw. Hi and the evidence there that would I help prove the State's case here. And then Terry I would do want to point out that the latter part of the week near the end of the week we can get into the medical examiner some of those medical experts. Couldn't really talk about exactly the cause the death here. I as far as the state again saying that the cause of death was there children's needs even though the defense says it was not it was the drugs in his system. For that testimony from the medical examiner Terry is expected to be technical. We're pretty tough. Absolutely critical in this case of course Kevin mode and as always. Thanks very much for being there for us. And we'll be right back. Welcome back to the try out your children for the killing of George Floyd and among the witnesses that jurors heard today was another higher ranking officer. In the Minneapolis police department lieutenant. Johnny Marshall and his role. Formerly sees doors and has a but he was in charge. Of training officers and the use of force of course one of the critical questions right at the heart in this case was. Was the use of force that knee on the connected Derrick children put on George Floyd for nine minutes 29 seconds. Was it appropriate. Are under that policies and training and values Minneapolis police department. And then the question did it lead to George Floyd's death and here's how lieutenant Johnny Marshall who teaches officers how to use force. Took a look at at the evidence and concluded. About that neck and that knee on the neck of George Floyd. In this bottom corner here. Jane do you see a photograph of an individual. I've been demonstrating how to handcuff a first desert and that music Crosslin acrobat individual cracked. Years I was partial. Across the net and decent Mac solution would be for missiles. Two maybe yes she has a prospect and so that's where we're talking about Kron handcuffing. This is a specific kind of photographic demonstrates the placement of a need as it applies to. Chrome handcuffs are correct sir. And I ultimately if that person were to be handcuffed and circumstances dictated. The officer would be permitted to continue to hold his knee in that same position and create. I would see yes. However we've cautioned officers be mindful of the neck area and to look for the shoulder purpose. We can take this down. We take our. We're. And it sure you work has been introduced. Is exhibit 56. Are ready and you see that's her lower. Yes. Appears to be needed. That's what appears to be the paramedic checking the carotid pulse of mr. foreign guests. In your experience. This is party and in this exhibit 56. And your experience would you be able to touch the carotid artery. Yes when he was placed on the crowd are no. So that is a defense attorney Aric Nelson trying to demonstrate with this prosecution witness that there were times when. Dare show his knee was not directly on the neck let's bring in our legal experts trial or Roberts cello. And trial or as well as the rest tourney at Mecca and way. And both of them have been here with us through the course of the afternoon on this and Robert let me first go to you on the issue of that an expert testimony that we have heard this afternoon. Off from. That you Los Angeles police department Sargent Jodi Steiger. As saying that this use of force is excessive how did jury's view an outside expert coming inland reviewing a case through video somebody not associate with him to police department at all do you think. Jerry world. Things that jurors who is there they assassin media room. Whether they witness knows his stuff and what we saw urban arts prosecution's question. Was an effort sooners. Cigarettes are experienced and well we are so worried about nourishment is no matter isn't these sort. And so that's burglaries are now. So we all can appreciate how rare does news end in the real world civil isolation where our criminal trial or are also are usually extremely. Rare. In her wounds police officer. From another agency. Go against another police officer and that's just a rarity. In this case. Actually at all immigrant are will be. Not a sports perhaps someone who's currently working in LA Sinorice office certain Minneapolis Susan sword and but a jury ever on but also are now orders or Washington or arson. Or arsenal. And they're men a couple of moments in this trial where it has felt. That that thin blue line. That has a code of silence that is so often Ben at work in some of these cases is not here and let me go to. In Mecca egg way on this and how do you see that the testimony. Jodi stagger coming from Los Angeles and as Robert to tell assess. You know about crossing that line and taking the witness stand to testify against Derek show. Extraordinary. Represented. This rarely ever happens I'll put this case is extraordinary case. And I'm not surprised that he's mayors are taken in this case I think what's important. Four. The street soon bring in an expert. Side. Minneapolis. Because as we ask you know. City of Minneapolis settlement apparently approved forty. Minneapolis police department also. Iron. There are children so ought to counter. This clinging worked at the grant so the difference is either through the blues who wore. While all the assert that. Minneapolis police department and and it was important to bring in an extra street. That's why didn't use force what their children. Success. And it has been interest thing dad thanks I wanna go to another moment from this child like to ask you guys about. And that is that another bit of testimony from. Lieutenant Johnny Marcel. Who was in charge of training in the use of force the officers of the Minneapolis police department here's what he said when he took a look at what was actually happening that the video does reveal. Derek children's knee on the next in that way. George Floyd here's what he said. Business MP here authorize a restraint techniques. Young and I wouldn't be something. Does every news source business conference. And under what circumstances would that be authorized a one can you do that I don't know if there's an unfriendly depend on the circumstances of time. Which would include why didn't visitors this is getting to listen to your putting him. And so if there was say for example. The subject was under control. And handcuffed. Would this be authorized. I was you know. And so they're the prosecution will argue that at some point that was excessive force dobbs this heart of the case but to a let me go to Mecca anyway because we were talking. Oh wanted to ask you about this is a challenge for the prosecution and it reminded me a little bit of what happened in the trial of the police officers who beat Rodney King. That they've prosecution in that case had to acknowledge because. Mr. king Rodney King was resisting arrest or rather violently. That there was a series of blows you my arm remember the picture of them police raining baton blows down on Rodney king and some of those were lawful. And then at some point in that fractious in that it in that struggle. The police crossed a line in it was very that the jury found reasonable doubt that that all well you know how can you second guess police officers in that moment. Second down this road saying that's gonna happen here but it is a challenge for prosecutors is meant to say. OK who here because of what George Floyd was doing. The force was necessary some of this force is OK but here now it's too much. Absolutely. It's a fine line there across whose nest years. Laurie conceded that force. Some level or what's necessary. He is. Fourth was excessive and that's what the prosecution passenger oh. When the force what's excessive. Most well in the amount of security force and also the letter of the war's not minutes we're not second civil fine force. When you have someone center who's not resistant. Who is I don't blame him from position. And it's not respond and actors who resistance. Problem. Access. And the prosecution has two T drone that over and over again we deserve. And a Robert chill of another question do you did it DC that is a challenge. A significant one as as it was for the prosecutors who tried to. Bob prosecute the officers who beat Rodney King now thirty years ago. But there but it is a kind of signature case in this in this area is this challenge for the prosecutors here. It is here you're good luck or what we. We see if you watch football. You see people lose their helmets when they tackle where he mused how later with certain where he. You saw. Same thing and one horse. You've got to arsenals around you Newsradio hopefully a person would. Lose those tools wrong but what are you shooting but time. You'd morning Jeanne matter or personal and cuts in eighty years away. And not only violates someone's rights were accused yoga. And so again were more where we're suddenly you're while and there are streets shortens first second degree murder pause in the murder threw for a commission of Saro on an assault. On. While George Porter. The second claim that the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable well sir degree murder. Causing the death through the imminence dangerous acts shortened trading month. And observe certain third sharks' second degree manslaughter causing the death. Through and negligent acts of mr. Schoen. That creates the reasonable risk and doesn't involve chickens hanssen's. Of debt and causing. So you're not what we're looking at this now. At a C should be would ball slammed his record and beautiful Douglas friends you again forests. We are dealing with a murder you it's not whether or not techniques are open policy or whether he's followed this checklist or whether he was considering. All of the issue is what we're working. Moorer. Didn't even use these original way shortly before five minutes wounds are holding mr. ward down does he go beyond. The reasonableness loans from murder. Or grass while there was charge you up there and what the prosecution. They're always. Native made a statement when they send us your arms. I think the defense don't walk ons feeling better when they get to their offices saying you know what's Boortz. If you can trust Streisand's got our trust in video clip we show. Of the union on another artist on the slides from the other offices you do this other questioners. Does the jury go for the notion there it was just shouldn't much of the week it was just too much pressure. It was just watched all of these at least you'll. Sort. And then I'd like to ask you but just one final question this case were here. Because of that video and because in though horror of it in the way it lit up. The world in outrage and an uprising in our own country and yet in the trial as you both pointing out. Jurors are being asked invited by the defense and it to that of prosecution as well. To go moment by moment. To look added in a way we don't really if you if you look at it it's horrifying your heart breaks you're outraged. But now they're being asked to analyze it and I wonder. Are they desensitized to that first reaction that we have this human beings watching George Floyd. I am under that media immaculate me go to you on. There I think you bring your excellent point the most powerful. Piece of evidence that the prosecution has this case is that video. We all saw that video immediately after the slow reaction to that video. And placed into the Derek Shelton and get officers to check aren't. All of the condition. The support because he was not responsive. When you look at the totality of circumstances. I think it's pretty east it tecumseh conclusion. And that this force was excessive what if you break it down brain right brain which is what the defense wants to do many places there. And Ron well what do you think about that that possibility. That jurors kept might get desensitized. Two to the the whole. Situation there and what was revealed on the video about it. Jerry you know I actually teach our borders they're saying that when you're showing how local governments. Do not overdo it. If you shorts in March he's been jerking ignorance and so again our interior experience covering news Al Sharpton are guiding us as our buttons and she. This could be a very important issue and on the point just now on record this season just. We we can also see this others UB what is frame by frame and we lose first and fact of the matter is is the case is there were looted soup and direct examination here of this Randy articles. Are Jewish prayers Arkansas bar porch and that particular case. Guy with diabetes is why not historical. Norms are getting arrested. Offices are hurrying him and Supreme Court. As you are your biggest snowball soars. It's Heinz U. Is it reasonable time of forces years so a reference point is we or our in the witness my friends I think it's a response. It would also marks when you look at small matters small he's LC lost their work force of the law should archery. We can actually see their concerns for American Beers option that all content Aaron Meyer and what they're playing in the videos in March. Or instantly when a moment of moral actions is what I mean or calm down and the next they're there are Arabs would do. Which is actually moving forward the medical testimony on whether the prosecution. He continues shown that it was the lack of error elective breathing however that he has been chill mister Floyd or whether it was sports. So critical that medical tests and who will take time sometime. To talk about his friend court case is that what about you can you contagious all about it that's one of the things substantial Larry benefits of these trials we learned a lot Robert cello. And a Mac gave way thanks very much you are very clear and helpful on that. Thank you. What you've been watching ABC news lives gavel to gavel coverage of the trial under our children will have a complete wrap up but today's events on ABC news live prime with Lindsey Davis tonight at 7 PM and 9 PM eastern. And we'll be back tomorrow morning when court resumes until then. I'm Terry Moran thanks for joining us have a good. This has been a special report. From ABC news.
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