In 'Civil War II,' Avenger Kills Another as Marvel Universe Transforms

FiveThirtyEight's Walt Hickey, ABC News' Michael Rothman and Marvel's Nick Spencer and Tom Brevoort discuss the latest issue of Marvel's groundbreaking "Civil War II" series, along with recent events reshaping the look of the Marvel universe.
26:03 | 07/14/16

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Transcript for In 'Civil War II,' Avenger Kills Another as Marvel Universe Transforms
Hi I'm wall. ABC news digital we're here today talking marvel civil war to issue number three. I'm joined by Tom report of marble Thomas don't. Good get Michael Rothman of ABC. Do an excellent and out on the West Coast we've got mixed answer he's the writer behind Captain America Steve Rogers nick as a gallon. Hey guys thanks for having so big issue this time really can't overstate that we've got a little tableau up here kind of articulating what went down. But. Proves banners that if that is did what what was the thought process behind that this is raising the stakes in the news agree that we haven't seen before. You killed an original avenger like what led behind. Well the conflict and civil war two is a pretty meaty conflict much like the conflict in the original civil war. And you need to dramatize that he did it to build mistakes up in a meaningful way for the audience. The potential threat of posed by the Hulk and out of control. More powerful and more crazy than we've ever seen before. Is sort of the living embodiment of that. And so somebody had to step up and make a choice make a decision. And Hawkeye takes a shot. When he thinks a shot as necessary and Bruce goes down and there is in the aftermath of that a lot of conflict over whether it is the right thing whether to the wrong thing. And then house on the play out over the next. Fortune let you know something about this editing actually how it's really interesting that that it was like the o'clock I was one who in all of the arrow right. Essentially the least the least powerful avengers like if you were kind of missed the event is that the ticket potentially take on a whole. Not on the list it. It was when it's little missiles how little you know that it has. Within intentionally have kind of at least powerful manager almost essentially killed most powerful injured there wasn't there wasn't the specific thought process it was more about which character made sense to do that the and Hawkeye given his skill set given his background. Given his temperament and where he sort of stood in the midst of all of this. Seem like the right person to do that. Almost all the sort of story choices that we make and a big event like this come out of the the story itself and we sat around in. They retreat rooms and hash all of these points back if Whitman all the various. Creators writers artists. Even before Bryant's it's down bulls it into actual story. So there's plenty of discussion about this in. We had probably 72 different versions of it different points as we argued back and forth what would be who might go down what situation might be. How do you raised the stakes here. And the idea that it would be the Hulk and the union do we would be Hawkeye. You know we're both really well known. In the wake of the marvel films. You know really seem to see to it. Funny thing is though afterward you think about it in hindsight. I can't see it being any two other characters yet and I can't see it being. Any other way which is weirdly guy trying to think of different scenarios in my head. You know and obviously civil war two is in a context of its own. Universe right now in its own story. But you know Iron Man sweat and no one else that seems like this is the two. People had to be involved. What was really interest him at this issue is that. So again we talked about the big event right. But the aftermath of it is such a huge part I know we've got we've got some visuals from the issue going on and the key thing is that there's a trial and that takes up well. Like for comic book a trial takes a surprisingly large amounts of us and what we think about what that kind of ideas of justice are. Right in comic books it's rather kind of subtle it's the Fella who can punch the hardest and has the right idea. But this is just kind of such an inversion of that is it's an area of real world placement of how we ascertain justice. Eight in in Quetta setting us up to the kind of seem was there the thought behind that part of that balance. Different what Brian and and Bryant has surprised us with this in the draft of the script came in we knew the events of the hoax death. We're gonna happen in this issue and the last issue ends with captain marvel going to respect his lab it. You kind of assumed the store will play heavily in yearly from there. So we have Bryant sent the script it he'd been wrestling with a for a couple of days I think I've I've cracked it it's a little different we talked about so read it. And get back to me and he sort of made the choice to cut ahead to start immediately with the trial dropping lead to a kind of what happened situation I don't know what what's going on but also to allow the characters to speak. To their their mindset and and what was going on. You know in retrospect rather than having all play out in real time where the events are happening so quickly nobody's really stopping to think or to reflect ordered spirit the thing. And it seemed like a really. Dramatic and different way of doing something like this doing a character death it's the second death in the series and both of them. You are kind of off. Off camera. Yes this kind of weird thought a lot of work Britton Macon on this inordinate Nixie you're working on the book Captain America Steve Rogers it hasn't been controversial law hasn't. Uses the so far so good all quiet but but so you you're kind of talking about a lot of similar themes I think. We're seeing it a reserves of hydra but it's not the kind of organization we've seen before. It's kind of really informed by what's going on of the where Wilton it was done in Europe what's going on domestically. And I kind of want to tap into lighten. We're that kind of come from lately you reinvented an organization that's existed since the forties and it's. Still so relevant where he kind of tapping into the find out about how to kind of ground that's. Well what you never want is for any of these organizations become harmless and it's sometimes when you have kind of guys in in green and yellow costumes with death rays and everything there's the reader can get a little used to it that get a little comfortable they can start to think that they understand what. An organization like that it is in and what it stands Ford and you know that's that's that's where you don't when it beats so I wanted to kind of re ground hide her captive remind people what they stand for. You know room remind people of the Ethan it's that they're built around. Which is back to the world around us what kind of values are kind of the grounds of in. That that are just as applicable today as they were in the forties. Well I think it hate it when you're talking about Hydro there's. A strong ideology of might makes right. You know in and there's assertive Darwinian idea of you know only the strongest should survive. And how that manifests itself. You know can often look a lot like fascism. You know so say there are some some definite. Touchdowns that victory remind us of the world around us some things that we're seeing. You know all across right now. So again tiger's been an external threat in Captain America Steve Rogers this is still very much bubbling into something very internal kind of conflict we haven't seen built villains in this we've just seen. People trying to do their best and civil war. How are you kinda at where does this go next you've just gonna seem almost definitive that's in the hour if things just get bigger and crazier from this point on. Even before you. Raise the question village north of need villains of this point because the heroes are sub divided over. This issue and even where they stand on the issue. And you know of the death of of the Hulk the action Hawkeye takes will change the position changed the minds. Of characters who thought they felt one way but now having you know last seen witnessed this and living in the wake of it. May have sort of shifted the odds are very easy seems so sketches that we've been kind of watching so far in this that it kinda seen this kind of bellwethers you got Kamal content you've got. No and you've got miles grounds that he Spiderman all of similar on the avengers and they become a seem vaguely coursing a lot of this. What housed there minding suede they're kinda young malleable they weren't around for the first round of go there they're actually. Kind of not on either side right now and are becoming more so I think they're they are becoming a little bit disgusted are fed up. With how the more seasoned more adult characters are behaving. They were all young that I have much experience with the young gray values of the real world. And I think you know debate they sort of would likely have of the world where we could just agree and get along and do the right thing so little that this. Oh. They right after the conflict with things with miles grounds there was and miles and Obama are out how to donate towards you know iron hand until it starts thinking right which also to me seemed complete contrast announces a purpose and some civil war one and he was. Probably. The most sinister sneaky he hung up. He was a terrible terrible terrible care the war one he was too polite thank you. I think I I hated in school. It I hated him and and now it's like he just seems like this and flee the heart broke in just trying to do the right thing kind of guy a out of this minute questions going somewhere play by him. Prior to the right thing a civil war one as well the difference here is he's got the experience of having been through this once before. Yeah up to this point his whole take is then I believe this. You don't believe this I really don't want this to turn into another situation where we punch one another and yet inevitably it's turning into that situation I think. You know he's kind of saddened by that but inevitably. Yes to do what he thinks is the right thing. Of course it makes me remind you think of that last one of those last final scenes and the world one where he's standing over caps lines like this was worth it and so it. That almost invoked after me would you know he's he's looking at another friend that that a Nazi camps around them but. It that anything of that kind of again feel for hand and he just does seem like the center of missiles cyclone Chris. Go back to this but both kind of like its creator and again like within the book itself. How does the experience a civil war one really kind of lead to have what we're seeing some work to lay egg egg. The young characters against him exit to huge part of this. You're seeing a lot of folks who weren't in the deck. When the for civil war run down. How is that experience kind of shaped their world and to get as a creator and that the minds behind marvel how a second sheet with where he's kind of things that. It's well fromm from a credit standpoint it was a great thing. That's one of the things that Brian pointed out really kind of excited. When we started talking about the story became civil war to its that the shape of the marvel universe is completely different than it was. When the original civil war was done so even though you're doing a story that. On some level is kind of similar to the original in that there's an issue that divides everybody they they mix it up. All the characters are in different places some of them are different people and in the same costumes some of the more all new people on that gives you. New opportunities for different characters to a tractor to spark off of one another interest in ways we're going new directions. Now in terms of what we're trying to do here. It's really the same kind of thing we did in the original on the we try to do on a regular basis which is built stories that have relevance to the world live in right now. And so you know all these issues that we touch on civil war kind of are obviously the superhero equivalent of things that everybody is grappling with the in the real world. I and that's when the marvel stories tomorrow here in relation to post a lot of folks have been trying to interpret this position it's you to try to tie it hit like what's going on is right now what was going on the news it in the background what are like some. Actual real world events that are kind of informing how this looks proceed IS. Thank although all the questions that Brian rude focuses on. Our questions of personal accountability. Are questions of blinking. Phrase unfortunately. Questions of you know profiling. And and the wave. You know we view the people around us and and even interact with them on kind of a surface level is supposed to deeper level. But certainly. We're clearly tapping into his eyed guys because is there is definitely. A version of that comic that we didn't weeks ago. That is very. Metaphor to events in the last week or. And and I do want to actually teases me you've brought with you a couple we've got and a couple things from better one page from the next issue of civil war as a sneak. And we've also got again listening from the of its lineman yes. Which again and you characters coming in the news broke I believe last week right and that's his that's kind of been the norm over the past couple years CE. What's been the motivation to kind of either expand the world at new characters increase these final legacy elements boy and in in general. One of the things we've really been pushing towards over the last couple of years of marvel is a greater sense of diversity. That because most of the core marvel characters were created in the 1960s. And the 1960s we live. Particularly a payment in a very white world. The marvel universe has been a bit whiter. Then the real world as you just have to walk around on the street you know downstairs to see they're all different kinds of people altered fats backgrounds. And so we've actively been trying the last couple of years to bring more characters not just into the universe but to put them in really key positions. Where there really important and they really matter in the way that those founding father characters do you. That can represent different people and that people of all sorts of backgrounds in final over themselves in and see themselves reflected in the stories that we're doing. So this thing with with three Williams and her sort of ascension into being the new lead. In Iron Man is another example of that and with its super pool play with you because. Marvel does is better than anybody. In the landscape. You for doing if that is alarming economic point of that vote ABC news and Marvel Entertainment on by the Walt Disney. How. And that's fantastic. I did with them. It always this land that we were Joker early about Wednesdays the end and things like that and just to freaking islanders is doing things that no one else is doing. And I don't league. Fans are gonna hate this coming but I love stuff like this I love that they the Captain America moved. I love bringing Williams I love. And then didn't you polka on this child love all the because to me it feels like. These should be I know there escapism they should be microcosm of life and they should actually. Whether or not you want us there now but it kind of wake us up to reality and and you should be taking some away from this. And that the deficit garlic pulpit is exactly what it dies in the recently me or the fans worthless. This is forever and I mean I don't want to be more benefit. It just in makes it more are in the war real so we've its. A lot about how the stories are getting more more grounded in over walled and at nick ad circulating out here because this is just so relevant animal we're that you're doing now I really like. In the first issue Captain America Steve Rogers there there's kind of this mini arc where you talk about. How low this this low level heidrick guy. Got to be in the position where he is of hijacking a tree and this is like a kind of a relatively that's set up I mean again. Stealing trains and using them for nefarious purposes as -- was some self buckling. Getting in the head of of this Fella Robbie dean Tomlin. I'll just kind of filling in folks that read put Getty he started and financially and civil trial that he didn't go to good schools grew up in poverty couldn't afford college. We'll went to prison for for petty crime eventually got out worked in a big box store was immediately acts in a recession. Fell into addictions and we're seeing constantly across the United States today and that's the kind of stuff that led to his recruitment. In an organization which historically has been somewhat absurd but is today very grounded in kind estimate is going into. Can you walk through what he'd make you write that our need Youkilis that sympathy for the double ethnics life story. Where I'm profit. No you know I think they elect you were saying. It's important. To make sure that the folks who were working for hydrants serving hydra are just kinda nameless faceless students. So this is a good opportunity to. Put the camera on one of them. And really tell their story and in what you find is is something that's imminently more relatable what you find something that's a lot more familiar something that we do you see. A lot in the world today. You know there's there's been a pronounces to rise over the last decade. In sort of extreme nationalist and you know far right wing organizations and hate groups. You know and it v.s in the types of folks that they're recruiting. He edited their folks who have who have have a lot of diversity placed in their path they don't see a lot of great prospects for their future. So tea kind of take that. And can transpose it on top an established organization like hydra. I think helps keep it relevant helps keep it something to be afraid of men and you know something to worry about the marvel universe. Yet a agony touch on a lot of things that are very very grounded in the worlds of elected we have a portrait major prescription drug problem in the United States. There's an entire group of folks who have been kind of left behind but by the economy and just kind of seeing that grounded and like. Again it's it's an extreme case but seeing how that recruitment and it happened that seems like it's and based off of some actual Ruble purporting that that I imagine you've threatened ala. Absolutely it's of the ending this is again this is there a real world issue that we have right now and we have. Sort of Lost Generation of folks to really got hit hard by the recession there. They've they've really obviously. Been struggling with substance abuse issues. Unit so it. Kids have to be able to bring that into a comic and help people to see that in that format you know that's that's a big part of what marvel is built on. You know is it's finding ways to tell stories about these things in a superior context and you know this is this is an example that you know we all I think felt pretty strongly about that this is a way to you. You know make height or something that spoke to the world that we live in today. Routinely get something on that Tom could get a pickle and X got. So is this kind of going on across across your series of books like you kind of seeing. Look like and Ellie in new avengers which has book that I followed that you saw dean kind of go from this Ludacris behind wearing. Super science bad guys to like now they're really looking a lot it was a think tank. And right united found ways to take. Concedes that were developed in late sixties and kind of found somehow way to make them realistic. Like what what's kind of looks. On the and what are we looking at with football with all of the characters in the ones of this long live. You have to find things to do with them and you can find new ways constantly connected to what's going. Today. That's just you know we have our dozens. Writers and artists and prayers are editors. You know work on this in gain and day out on every idea that we come up with visas shining gem necessarily. But are hit percentages on this is pretty good. Because it really is sort of job one we want to tell stories that aren't just for people who would reading these comics for fifty years although we love those people. We wanna do stories that appeal to somebody that's never read a column before but whose name DC and marvel movie or seen the TV show or some of the animation or. Just knows the characters from from wherever on that note let's talk every. I'm still note that the original panel actually see the panel right now but. Just got a lot Christopher's that this is an issue coming from the next issue of invisible as his invincible Iron Man number twelve. A few issues ago what the beginning of this particular run of Iron Man. We dropped. I've noticed that that one of the reasons that Tony Stark with kind of rebuilding and redeveloping its armor is that somewhere out in the world. The some kid you know working in their their you know. Makeshift lab had reverse engineered one of his old farmers and posted on the Internet so now anybody who had. The money and resources and we'll be bought by you know build their environments it. And so couple issues ago we introduced Gregory Williams who is that that kid she was of fifteen year old. Scholarship student MIT and we've seen in MIT she is actually building her hall owns the home brew. Version of a fireman's. Over the course of last issue are two weeks are taken after test flight we surrogate involved in a little. Escapade with with some criminals that went fine but almost not find. And where we eventually come in to her inexorable meeting with Tony Stark. She's brought the bits and pieces of the suit back home to her home in Chicago. Tony Stark is in Chicago for very different reasons. He happens to be there it's obvious what we thought you were here because of of this girl. I'm Tony seeks her out and there's a moment where the two of them come together. And they have this this immediate connection between the two of them because they operate because they're both so. Intelligent and both so what much smarter faster than all the people around them. They communicate on a level that's very different from everybody else we're gonna do you beat up the shocker soon. The standard is why is probably you know it is definitely you know is not anything that the Tony Stark was looking for but he kind of walks in and just. Finds itself automatically. Kind of becoming a you know this mentor figure to this this girl who reminds him of himself in Everett profound way. We really human level before you know it wasn't thousands of office the same thing use it yet Williams in the role for an and what do you think it's like he's going with this and roads. The whole act side can only imagine where this is gonna go and I cabinet friends yeah. It got to fight and you know audio peopled the kind of guests the year in the right direction slightly I think it's that I certainly is. He's still reeling from the loss of Rudy. And his life is chaotic just to begin with. But also there are not a lot of people that he can relate to in the very direct fashion given his intelligence in his upbringing. You know his relationship with his parents that he's discovered that he's adopted child -- doesn't really know where he comes from. He has all these issues kind of whirling is in his psyche. It's on how somebody that he can kind of you know communicate within understand. Such as basic a profound level is a really profound thing for him. And it's something that we haven't quite seen in this way before. So get it gives you some new. Thanks to go. Though just really quick follow up. And you had to get to this terrorism starts a great deal I think I mean so much news and were more and it and it's amazing. Lastly I'm theory that the news came out different ones like. Ecstatic and and what's the pressure to as we head you know further further than the war to. To know that this and is going to be something if anything linkage yet because of all but that they. Happenings we've seen this far. Well I got hopefully if we believe that if they built it right and we we've done our jobs right we have enough things laughs. In the remaining four issues. That'll keep people shocked and surprised and intrigued in and then you know we've all the events that we do. The aftermath of the event is almost as important if not more important in the event itself you know we put just as much of an emphasis on what comes after. And really the the the first woman that we get that was really sort of benchmark of that was we've secret invasion and that rolled right dark rain related it does the juggernaut actually show. I think we -- each and officially so we have that preview of the next issue there's no words on this but would you Lisa Anderson described for us in an essence. Captain marvel and the -- the midst using the predictive powers of the human Ulysses. Have discovered that there's a woman. Working down on Wall Street who they believe is a Hydro operative who was going to destabilize the economy using. Yeah it's not necessarily as it is just an ordinary woman and they. They go down to intervene and and and detain arrest this woman. And it's just the worst looking thing on camera. Yeah now that they can get as they have the frog march this woman how they go down go to her place of work and they come in and it's Republicans. You know it's of the even the question and if they're doing the right thing it sure looks like the wrong thing. And yeah this'll all these two spilling into its people through which obviously that makes it even bigger things right right and and the situations that seem much smaller this is just a woman. In an office building. Nick Elena for a few moments times outlook and we look forward to in the run up kept Americans the front. Will you definitely going to see these two stories linkup and connect here in the future civil war to you in and the help larger story that we're doing. In Captain America are definitely going to start to bump into each other and and and they're definitely on a collision course so. You know we've got some we've got some very big things coming across but it stories and and and coming out of civil war to. That Steve story really starts to pick up steam and yeah its it's I think we're gonna talk a little bit more about about it San Diego it's it's it's pretty massive. That's one question. The minarets and the where was it is welcome Steve Rogers is becoming hydrated. Alan and well if here if here if you Steve Rogers. You know the prospect of an inhuman they can see the future. Is a very scary thing. Obviously. He unit at any moment it's those here. For what you really are so Steve is gonna be very concerned. That is that was I had no idea that would that would. That was a good thinking how did you this is like in its. It's inside I wanna bang my guess so much for coming on Tom Michael and it got to California thank you so much I'm well to keep we're going to be back here in the next issue of marvel civil war hill height.

This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.

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