How voting is going so far in 2020 | FiveThirtyEight Politics Podcast

Amelia Thomson-DeVeaux and Nathaniel Rakich discuss how voting laws and procedures have changed ahead of the 2020 election.
44:30 | 10/21/20

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Transcript for How voting is going so far in 2020 | FiveThirtyEight Politics Podcast
Someone tell me some thing at bright and cheery. For far reject our. Pay taming. Hello and welcome to the 530 politics podcast I'm Galen Rupp and there are thirteen days until Election Day. Today we're focusing on the state of voting in the 20/20 election. Voting laws and procedures around the country have been changed to accommodate mail voting and safe in person voting because of the corona virus and as a result more than ever before Americans are voting early and by mail. As of this taping forty million Americans have voted according to the elections project at the University of Florida. For context about a 137. Million votes were cast in total in 2016. At the same time the walls of the election are still being litigated. Issues like signature requirements ballot return deadlines and the use of ballot drop boxes. According to the Stanford MIT help the election tracker there are more than 350. Cases playing out in state and federal ports. And both Republicans and Democrats are preparing for more litigation on and after election. There's also the question of how long it will take to count the unprecedented number of mail ballots and therefore when we might actually know the results of the election. So here would meet to break down what we're watching in terms of how election logistics are playing out our elections analyst Nathaniel rickets he Nathaniel. Yen. All's are of us is senior writer and legal reporter and nearly a touts a devout and the idea take him. And before we begin I should mention that on 530 dot com we have a live long running through Election Day it's been running for about a week's narrow. And it's covering election administration. Issues this might be our Arab longest running live blog so far. And I'm glad we're during it because this is such that he area of coverage for this election. Before we dig in to use the nuts and bolts and numbers in different cases that are on guard. I'm curious from a reporting perspective how have you all Ree oriented yourselves in terms of covering the nuts and bolts of actual election administration doesn't usually such a bread and butter issue for a like the final two weeks of campaign coverage. He damning thankfully it's spin on our radar for awhile basically since the pandemic started in March and primary started having these issues really starting with Wisconsin and April so there's been time to get up to speed you know myself Julio Waltham mass Wheeler put together a how to vote dashboard for people if they haven't people I've seen that on our website they should check it out but basically that required us to research every dimension. Of election law in all fifty states plus DC that you mention neon right down to you know whether it's the witness signature is required. And in lots of these initiated the exact dates of early voting and things like that and we've been tracking every single change. As well by following local news you know following reporters who have been covering election administration issues for a long time. So thankfully you know it it you know we've had we've been able to ramp up to it. But but it's definitely been a change him I think you know if this were normal election I'd be spending most of my time talking about. Com the horse race and instead I would say that most of my effort has been devoted to this and stand of course it helps that it's not very competitive elections now. You haven't and I guess my focus has really been. And not so much on. Not signal of how all the elections are unfolding across the country but we're people are riding in court over. And elects solidity San. Happens every year people are always fighting over the rules but there's just been there in so many rule changes this year. And the stakes are so I Aaron. Because so many people. In this election to pay attention this election trying to figure at the seats Lee and it weight they're comfortable. And to overseeing act hind of these changes and that court. You know that acts that all the election rules are not completely sad and that we're seeing these cases continue to be litigated you know. We just had Supreme Court order about Aaron. Deadline in Pennsylvania. We could see the Supreme Court weigh in again in the next two weeks. It's just a pretty crazy landscape and so for me it's and ball it's sort of keeping an eye on. Budget key cases that are moving through the state and federal courts and Alison just checking in a lot which election experts and people have their hands in the this all the time. And interesting to baton. What are you watching what surprised this week what. Think isn't getting enough coverage. And app packet writing apps that fourth alive. Yeah and we're gonna get into some of the specifics of the ongoing litigation. Bullets are with the basic so I mentioned already that forty million people have voted. So far. Nathaniel how many people do we expect to wrote in total in this election and how many people do we expect to vote before November fair. Yes so calm you mentioned I think 137. Million or so people voted in twice sixteen acting payment everybody expects us to blow past that number you know I think a concern investment would be a 140 million I've seen some people asked me as high as 160. Com you know I think may be him 150 Oro little bit less may be the the sweet spot that you know of course where test guessing on. Now I think that we have answered this question before Obama's part house but we keep getting it so burger in April the tape again and mobile answered as many times as we need to answer it. The early votes has so far favored Democrats pretty overwhelmingly. To what extent does that see anything about what the result of the election will be. It doesn't say anything because. As we've known for many polls Democrats are much more likely to take advantage vote by mail options in particular and Republicans are. Therefore the party registration. Come early in male votes are going to be skewed toward Democrats and we should mention that even voter registration in the party registered with. Doesn't necessarily mean you're voting for that party either. Com so there are a lot of possible can founders between the data we're seeing hand the old saying. It's X percent Biden X percent to. Are so Americans have now been voting for weeks in some state has it been going. Smoothly and where he hasn't begun some of the what have the issues. A certain extent it kind of depends on your frame of reference. I think. You know considering that were voting in. Global can't panic with lots of rule changes. Things are very different for voters than they normally are. Things could be a whole lot worse and in fact they were a whole lot worse during the primary use so I definitely some experts I talk to you said now. The one lucky thing about this can't panic there's anything lucky about it it didn't hit. Ian like August app at the primaries sort of figure out what apps for calling it BE. And at that point the primaries were sort of fort conclusion. So that being said there have thee in issues. I actually just went to vote this morning in India act and I stood in line for nine minutes. And that is apparently just what has been happening with early noting in India that's one of the few states that does not allow AM. Couple that exemption. For an absentee ballot so he wanted to utterly apt to go in person and at least brylin students standing in line for a considerable chunk of your morning. And we've seen lions. In march of other places and machines breaking down you know I think. A lot of the things that we would normally see on Election Day except. More people are voting early. You know instead of the day of the election like Tuesday's election where action. Yen and on the mail voting front you've also seen a few jurisdictions. Mailing the wrong ballot. Or maybe a ballot with the wrong return address SaaS was the case com in parts of New York City so that's been a hiccup that we've seen in a few jurisdictions that sad. Election officials obviously it it was it's still pretty early com elections officials had time to mail replacement ballots in those cases. One other point also want to make is that it's a lot of these reports really all these reports or anecdotal so you hear about one county that sends the wrong ballots too you know 50000 voters and hear about another county that has lines everywhere. But you also don't hear about the thousands of other companies that aren't having these problems so it's hard to now. To what extent these are truly com pervasive problems and to what extent there one offs that's sad of course. People being sent on ballots people having to wait hours in line to vote even in one place and states is not to. So we have to. Competing ways framing some of the issues we've seen so far. On one hand we've heard from Democrats and voting rights groups. That these long lines that we're seeing war ballot mailed ballots that are being rejected it may play into it theme voters are etched. This in time we've heard from Republicans that these issues where for example in New York City. 100000 voters were sentenced printed ballots sort went NBC people pointing to summer these anecdotal examples and saying. That's part of suppression on the other hand we see others pointing to other anecdotal examples saying you know this is right for fraud. To what extent are either of those arguments really the keys in scenes. I their argument is pretty simplistic. You know I'll start by saying that election fraud is very rare as we've sent many times on this podcast on the site. Com so I don't think that the any concerns about that are super valid. Com but on the other hand a lot of the times that liberals cry voter suppression it's not really voters pressure enemy mediate is in the abstract term but nobody is actively trying to maliciously suppress votes attest chastity with election officials being understaffed under resource. Com and people just being human and making mistakes or young perhaps less generously people being incompetent and making mistakes. Com you know so. You know it's it's hard to paint anything with a broad brush given that we our country fifty states and even more discreet local election officials. When it the important things to remember to is that even now I'm you know issues like. Rejected ballots. Are getting a lot of attention this year. You know and and could be quite important it's also unity these issues even if it's the long lines or or other theory years. You know it's it's happened it's not happening to all voters and people are still turning out. And they're still standing in those lines in you know the rates rejected ballots it would absolutely numbers higher this year. Just because more so many more people is an island boats that. This is really like a group with people at the margins he would happen that experience. So I think. You know while it's certainly. Hard to say as and you all said that it's acceptable that people are we'll have to take an entire morning off of work to go vote war. You know I've talked to a lot of boaters who sadly. They've gotten their mail in. Mail in ballot in the mail for the first time and it reading through it and hired they're terrified they're gonna fill out Ron and super complicated and not well designed to. I think there are all of these places where. Aspects of our electoral system. Could be designed better and arguably should be designed spatter and say to take up less of people's time. It's not that those problems. Blake and it was saying we're malicious or even a T necessarily. Really fever one party or candidate or the other. Hot what are we seeing so far in terms of rates of ballots being rejected because either they don't have the proper signatures or they haven't been. Filled out correctly I know. The Nikkei ballots in Pennsylvania have made their rounds on the Internet because you're after it put your ballot in one envelope before you put it in. The outlook that says your name and identifying information on it. So our our ballots being protected at any hire of a rate then we would normally see in terms of votes cast by mail. So this I think any question four companies after election name I think it's too early towering now. I'm Avalon. Mac yet our colleague Kenny Rogers to write articles about north Carolina's Aires area early rejection rate and now. Black voters' ballots are being rejected at a higher rate of voters bouts which unfortunately not mutual. Com. But overall acting. Work still left to speculate about whether the rejection rates will be significantly higher as a million sent I think it's really important point that just because the volume of mail votes is increasing. That means that even if it's just 1% those ballots again rejected that means higher volume of ballots will be rejected as well. But I also think that. You know the rate could be lower than 1% which is usually is. Because of things like better voter education things like states taking steps to realize that they need to be actively driving those rejection rates down. Announced it's extending their deadlines to receive ballots so that calmed the number one cause of Allah rejections witches out late. Says app becomes less of an issue. On the other hand it's a simple fact that first time male voters are more likely to make mistakes such as missing signature. Com and what does a fighter pilot and so states are working against that fact and I think that without some of those measures. If she did nothing the theory of rejection would increase from one persons I don't know how high probably not. Eye popping number yummy. A 2345%. And I think we expect. Throws rejected ballots to be at the subject of litigation and after Election Day if the election is. Indeed close we'll see kind of whether there was rejected ballots would make up any potential winning mark and. Right yeah I definitely expect that to be a major focus of litigation but I do want to emphasize that. You know it would have to be an extremely extremely close race for those rejected ballots to make a difference sought saint just for argument sake that 1% of ballots are rejected the normal. A mount. You know so first file you have to have a margin that is within 1%. And then you have to take into account that even though mail ballots due skew democratic there are still plenty of Republican mail ballots with America. So the actual margin saying it's maybe 7030 in favor of Democrats. That they're the real margin would have to be less than 1% to maybe half a percentage point in order for those Stephanie thirty. I didn't mail ballots reaching rejected to actually make a difference. I want it drove down on some of the specific things that are being litigated before we dive into others details Nathaniel. We talked months ago about the impact of the pandemic what's happening on voter registration derives. At this point most opportunities for Americans to register to vote the deadline has passed. What can we say looking back on the months since I talk to you about the overall impact that and our hat on court street. Well unfortunately we haven't updated an analysis Tom home but I can say of course that it's been harder for people to register to vote because. Runner registration drives a Saturn not being able to happen in person. Com and that has strayed and read that wrong number of registrations down in addition we've seen reports that Republicans are registering a lot more people band Democrats in part because they're on kind of less afraid to do these in person activities. Com however I'm Jeffrey Skelly has a good article on the site right now about why people shouldn't be reading too much into those numbers. Comdisco that TO DR version is that. Democrats may have redshirt a lot of their voters early on because had a very competitive presidential primary in Republicans were playing catch up later in the year. In addition people are registered with the party don't necessarily vote without party. A lot of those new Republican registrations could also be. Long time Democrats in places like West Virginia power calm appearance actually democratic areas we're just now getting around to changing their registration to Republican but really they've been voting for Republicans fare for decades made. The one that add to that it is time. You know actually an excellent expert that I respect to last week brought. The voter registrations answered a question mark for camp. Because if you're if more people are going to try to vote think they are registered are actually not you know registered act. Just that they let that it looked me haven't gone. Offing. For people register or update their registration click. People would avoid. So you know and actually lead to more ballots that might. Elections situation because it shows up. And they say I think I'm registered to vote and looks at pulling please say mayor list you can fill out a provisional ballot in most cases and Dan. If things get close the provisional ballots are one of the things that well over so you now I think. Exit via a question aren't going into this. And again it's something that goal. Only really be an issue if the margin is very close but it's an art is very close in an important state. We could be hearing more original ballots because people are confused they register. Art let's talk about the law and litigation when it comes to all of these voting rules looking up the big picture first how significantly has election law be changed around the country as a result of the corona virus and. Tons of states have liberalize their laws to make it easier to vote by our count com. 33 states have done something to kind of push the ball forward to. Either they've gone from. Like requiring excuse to vote absentee to lifting that requirement allowing everyone to vote absentee or they've gone from being made no excuse absentee state you have to request your ballot to being made all male state. Like secret Nevada has done. So you pretty much every state at this point except for five states that are have have remained excuse states com's those are. If I can name them all Texas Louisiana. Indiana Tennessee he and Mississippi. Com but you know the changes happening here collection or program. Com. It's at a time oath. Picketed at I think. Home. But the changes have really been sweeping and they've also extended down to some of the want to hear things so like a number of states have waived the requirement that people have to get their ballots signed by a witness. Com some states have for example started paying for postage on nasty about the State's Atlantic but track their absentee ballots are strengthened those systems. Com. You know I mean when elsewhere yet and for lots lots of changes have been going on beneath the hood. Per share. Sir milieu what are the main. Questions that the courts are weighing in on when it comes to these changes on why are they so contentious. So what's the big things is the debt clients. For mail in ballots I and this is not unit is certainly a lot of kind of posturing on both sides about this it's not about whether. You can nail in it Allen after election still attic counted it's a ballot. Let's he has concerns around the Postal Service being slower. In act if people kneel and but their ballot by Election Day it's postmarked by Election Day basically how long ST he's keeping that Al it to get in to eons election officials. And some State's act. Have loosened those on those requirements at that Alli and Kate take longer to get to them. To that has it. A big subject of litigation. I'm another when has been drop boxes which has been sort of when it sees work around. You know people are really worried about the Postal Service record over and over again and titan to people about their concerns about voting. And drop boxes ours it is easy weight off your ballot you don't have to take it and you don't put it mailed in sort of wait for it to meet its way to the Postal Service. And you don't have to go and drop off act and elections office just put it drop box that should be pretty easy. That has also been. A subjectively icky Stan and in particulars of the fighting. In states like Texas those prominently. Between the state government and local governments about these how much you weigh the local governments have to decide. Where to put Dropbox. Boxes. And then there's also been a litigation. Over. City issues lake witness signature requirements. So union the issue during a pandemic. It might be hard to get a witness to you say yes honest person sign their ballot. Which is a requirement that some states have adamant that states have loosened that. Or or. It is not a ways and that's also the subject at. And they miss anything else Nathaniel Derrek Lee literally hundreds of cases that are. Either pending in the courts now our unsettled over the past few weeks it is a lot of but those at this. One thing that. Did come up like a week or two ago that is probably done for now well as sound a couple of State's voter registration portals crashed on the day the deadline. Com and as a results courts ordered the registration deadlines to be extended calm so that people do wait until last minute but then didn't have a chance to register on line. Were able to register online but those are fairly on controversial. Court sessions or at least they were correctness and it some of these cases like com with the top boxes or more accurately drop sites in Texas. Com as well as some of these com cast a ballot deadline cases such as in Wisconsin North Carolina. Com have really been ping pong in between. You know code that deadline has been extended the deadline hasn't been extended com multiple court rulings overruling each other within the span of a few days and it's been. Quite confusing to follow even for those costs who do this for living so I can imagine how. Difficult must be for voters. Yeah literally moving through state and federal court attesting times in sentences. Answer their questions at state line questions that federal law. And it's it's very confusing and act but it still flocks with thirteen days the pretty elects and use. It's just pretty wild. And millions of possible to say. In general if courts are ruling on the side. Republicans or Democrats in these cases. So I haven't done. A comprehensive. Analysis. At where courts have come out on Nance. In one of the complicating factors. ST federal court. And so you know some hunt simultaneously. The Texas case for example Texas cases is moving both in state and federal quirk at this time. But a general pattern especially when it comes to the federal courts has been. District court judges which is the trial court levels the sort of lowest level judges. Basically saying okay. You know voting should be easier. User reasonable. Exemptions to meet in attack and an addict you know go ahead that deadline extension is okay at the deadline extension might even be required. And end it though is. I. Those decisions. Getting overturned by federal appellate courts. There was an exception to that actually last night it that ports circuit. Rules that North Carolina deadline. Extension cars threaten three days to nine days. Armed that was established by state elections board yen was being challenged buys and yet the GOP officials state legislature. They said they weren't an issue a stay on their work halt. But that has the more the exception. Rule. Mostly weeds clean appeals courts. Missing Knoll we've really shouldn't be making these changes. With so little time for action. Yeah you know nearly knows more about legal staff than I do remind general Reid has been that Saddam especially higher courts have generally been signing with the conservative. More restrictive side of things. But I think with an important content that they also defer to states. I'm so for example decide that the state government itself is on matters bombs that they're more likely to keep me. Com more liberal line place if the state supports it. Tom some normally you know traditionally courts that the federal courts have been reticent to overturned. State Supreme Court rulings. And you kind of sign in play when Supreme Court declined to overturn the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. Tom this decision to allow you later passed ballot deadline but. That case was actually just 44 at the Supreme Court Tom suggesting that in a full court with any Connie Barrett. Would have. Actually overturned the pants me scream court which is kind of a big deal as I understand it. Yeah I mean it it included in real deal that it happened in out you know seek. It's hard to predict what's gonna happen in the next couple weeks but it looks like it's going to be on the Supreme Court theories seem an aunt the way that piece came out. I it's possible it could come back to the Supreme Court that we might not actually have heard the end of this dispute about the pencil. Line. I am Republicans could file a petition for rehearing bring act accord. The Supreme Court has been. Doing it being that I think I. Has been hard for work federal judges general which is that they have been. Ruling on some of these cases or issue orders that these cases when they get them but not explaining reasoning. So what the Supreme Court can do united Hitler used to kind of play. The normal process for the Supreme Court hears oral arguments and then a confer for a long time. It is one opinions where they explain exactly why the Whitney did but it needs emergency situations. Alan. They're just getting a request. To eat to halls. I'm a particular. Act out rule change that has gone into place. They'll just sort of keep it. Like a yes or no and sometimes we don't even know which justices were on which side in the Pennsylvania case we knew because. For the four conservative justices who Chief Justice John Roberts noted that they would have granted. This day. By the supreme court's reasoning prisoner of what. What you do in the situation and especially in this pandemic situation has been a little bit of a black box. And so you know even though I think that the trend. In the appeals courts federal appeals court has yet to go with a more at a cancer or restrictive position. Used loosen. B Lee. By eating. Dissents from judges who have said no this is not the way to go. We're making it much harder for people at a time should be easier. And so you know it's not like user. Unanimous decisions that are coming down appeals court judges it's clearly been the subject absence might in turn them. Appeals courts. At the risk of playing dom. Why is this so contentious you know like whether you have a three day for a nine day period for ballots to make it to the portal auctions or. Whether or not you travel on to Dropbox as our just want. It seems like there a lot of ways to vote in this election. And that. These kinds of issues around the margins are unlikely to make a difference. But are people just expecting that it could be so close are preparing for a scenario in which it could be so close. That it doesn't even matter any one vote cast are not cast. Is the goal. You're. Adding I think in the back of everyone's had. Is what happened in Florida in 2000 race where it literally came down to a eerie eerie very small number of votes in one ST. I'm. And nine days the ballots that con man. It might not be a huge number of Alice. On the other hand you know it does seem light. The Postal Service has been just more reliable during the pandemic. It's eight. That is a concern that a lot of voters have. That. Yes and elections officials also seemed happily they're saying get your ballot at early. Don't we the last day to set your ballot in this advocate today. And I think it sort of people are preparing now. In case the election is very close and that's actually sort of interesting about what's happened. This litigation. Is that Aaron. Some important questions are getting decided. Before the election and so it does kind of risen just a question of what happens after the election. And on you know Wisconsin's really close and it seems like the absentee ballots that cleaning lady you know could. Decisive in some way the courts or ruled act will. We are does that leave us it's hard for people come back and say oh no when he now this could decide the election. Please do this all over again courts. So. I think you know that that's part of it is the people's sense that these could be really important questions and they are trying to get it resolved. Yeah I agree with everything Emilia said that I would also put in a plug for. I think a lot of people who just. Genuinely. Believe that these things like ideologically and it's not necessarily because of the horse race like you know I think. Group at that originally. Com instigated. Change in North Carolina ameliorate it was like of retired persons advocacy group. So you know probably not necessarily someone someone who is super invested in. Biden or trump winning but our other guests a group that. Wants to see. You know the people it's for a prison it represents votes count. Totally and he just because a lot of things are partisan does not everything is partisan and there are a lot of people are just invested in making answer that. You know folks use need to go right now this year I'm are all kinds of reasons can do it hands. That they're being treated fairly and not spent one eight disputes. That has been coming before the courts is a Catholic who gets to decide what the year just. Because one of the big questions that has been coming before her key operatives in court in Pennsylvania case. And it's also issue in the North Carolina case. It's like he does the legislature can't make those decisions to the courts get to make those decisions to election board's may get to make those decisions you know I think. As you were mentioning at the beginning of the pod cast Galen. The nuts and bolts of how elections get rotten. It is not something usually gets a lot of love or attention. Especially. To an excellent people focused on course race. But now suddenly. Everyone is incredibly invested. In no who gets to make these choices. And under what circumstances. So I think we can expect that territory to be ongoing litigation up until and past Election Day and I'm sure we will be covering it. Again. Another big question here before we wrap up is that's howling process. We had a lot of states dealing away as an unprecedented number. Now ballots. They may not be able to cap the mat be able to count the votes as quickly. And so that's raise questions about when watching knows the results. The election. So given what we know about the tallying process these to different deadlines in different states how are you'll thinking a Bauer. When will get results where and when we might know who want. Yes this is a big question for those of us elections obviously and it's not an easy one to cancer African has a republic the Americans want an out who won the only can be patient. You know we're the ones are going to be out one handing like what you got to bed. Pets. Shed a tear for the electric reporters. Don't exactly apps that we don't secretary for a switch us. Com. But the luck I think that. Especially after the pandemic hit and some of these primaries. Com 100% vote by mail all EU and we saw sometimes weeks of delays in getting the results I think people assumed the worst about Monday with irony results that point on election. Com I don't think it's going to be that kind of nightmare scenario I think there's a good chance that we learn the identity of the winner in the you know first couple of days after the election. If not an excellent night itself. Com but I do think that. People need to be prepared for it not to be. As quick or decisive as a task than in the past. So you know he really to Penn State by state you know again these states have different rules for. For example whether they can accept mail ballots after Election Day com Mike are talking about and also states have different rules for when they can start processing are counting the mail ballots they receive. And also some states you know some states will be under central mail others might be 120% and it really won't be a significant part not just be able to count the Election Day votes on you know as they normally do you. Mom so I think what we are tentatively looking for is we know that a couple of states are probably going to report results relatively on time. The most important of these states is probably Florida. It's looking like Arizona might also be fairly quick to report that the state that's voted time now for a long time minister used to it and has them kind of continents. House in order about counting those ballots. On texas' another state because they haven't made it really easier to vote by mail. Where we might get the results on something approximating a normal schedule. On the other hand states like -- in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin in particular. Those states don't allow processing collapsed he now that's very early. And so we're expecting. At least a few days for final wish results there. Then there are few wild cards that are kind of in between signed paint specifically of North Carolina and Ohio. Which are states that are fast at processing and counting ballots. But states that accept ballots after Election Day so. Mimi the you know however many ballots we get by Election Day will be counted quickly in those states but then organ have to wait. Days and potentially weeks to gaps in the final final results so if north Carolina's within a percentage point on election night. We might not know the winner there for several days. Com so I think he says Ahram building to that the answer your question do you plan but I think that. There's a decent chance that we will have a good idea of who on the presidency on election night for example if Joseph Biden wins Florida if he wins Arizona certainly if he wins Texas. There's a very good chance that he's won the presidency because it's just very hard for president prompt when real action without those states. Com that said we may not be able to officially. Make any new network projection. Because there will be other states like Michigan like Pennsylvania like Wisconsin but still out. I'm so in my teens awkward in between period where we basically know who won but we can't say so officially. Com which of course could lead to some confusion but you know I think that's probably what people should expects option. That was really get over thank you. I've been practicing. Or heartless and as I've said as an expert statements human Ortiz on November 5. We're still doing. On November fast. I Claire and I Demeter shots on air on the podcast. Hopefully. I don't know whether that means we should hope for a result of that not. That's an incentive for people and in their ballots at the last possible until it. A people around here. To wrap this up your act even during some of these daily part as an asking people to be a little bit reflective of our congress due campaign coverage. And you know as we mentioned at the top. Getting specific about election logistics and administration is not par for the course in the final weeks of a campaign. Of campaign coverage. Do you think week that should change I mean. Normally we might be going to like big rallies you know some rock star would be playing at a concert in Philadelphia and we'd be talking to like Susie and Joseph and and whoever they plan on voting for a what do you do not ask us for thirty ton of that but. Instead we have actual we have. A lot of people in the mainstream press talking about the nuts and bolts of how people are out. Should we keep about one. Sounds good to me some really important. Important. I hope we talk about it more. One thing I've been wrestling Ian robbery and ease court cases in particular. Ease the surrogate how to. Copper east issues. Honestly and accurately. Without. Locally. The year import out of ports. Because. On the one hand you know asked me note from 2000 and courts can be incredibly decisive. In elections. On the other hand. That's only happened once in history of the area circumstance. In the heat created. Convergence. Of several different actors. Are asked to get to a point year's day. The Supreme Court. I think for me it's kind of an balance. How would he help people understand what's happening in the court's how it acts. Fusion. Has certain need in something I've heard from people that are two out there experience a sense that the rules are changing. And they don't dole what they're supposed to due. And new rules will change tomorrow after eight figure out like that and that's really really important at talk out to make sure that people scans it's the extent that these rules are changing. This is the accident there. And s's like. Your time do you and that's when. So valuable because it lays out all that different rules. In accessible way. On the other hand you know it greets a couple times podcasts. The EU. Chances that this comes down to eat court. Having to act countries. That doesn't mean it can't happen you know so I think experiencing weeks. Talking about this case that the Supreme Court news now be really decisive. Year eating act. At that moment but I do think it's sort of lake it's a challenge this year. What a brilliantly as saying is that you should all email her directly if this election ends up in court. Act Emilia hunt and hunt. It's pretty unstoppable last Zealand's. Use a town. Your questions. It it's. Yeah so I think you know anyway it's challenged. It's challenge of this year I think. Weird stuff is happening all the time that we wouldn't predict it's at there's a fair chance of that happening but adults that doesn't mean. Now really beings that everyone is expecting it is also necessary. And I think that it's particularly. Challenged. Allen's. The court's an act. And I should say a. Our forecast actually. As an output. How likely it is that the election hinges on a recount and we currently put that 84% chance so. We can't put a number on it it's 4%. But anyway I think. That is about it all again plug the live blog that everyone 538 is contributing to. 530 dot com we're tracking all of the different elections logistics changes court cases etc. Through Election Day it's been alt a safe for me. A super helpful guide to understanding. What is what is happening because so many things happening all went in fact that we had an election administration channel. In slack. And I was like you guys be should publish lists for the audience because I'd go to this every day trying to figure out what pals aren't on. And Atlanta are was actually due on. Just eligibility date fair that extra work. Start to think it's our suspect. Art let's leave it there they unit and Ella and an area. Thanks Alan scam. My name is do you enter Tony each now is in the virtual control room Claire editor Curtis has our audio editing you can get in touch by emailing us at pot. Cast at 530 dot com you can also was greeted us but he questions or comments. If you're a fan of the show leave as a rating or view apple podcast store or tell someone about us also remember to subscribe on YouTube. Thanks for listening. Yeah.

This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.

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