White Democrats are wary of big ideas to address racial inequality

FiveThirtyEight's Perry Bacon Jr. and political science professor Meredith Conroy discuss what the polls can tell us about white Democrats’ views on racial disparities in the U.S.
52:02 | 07/17/20

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Transcript for White Democrats are wary of big ideas to address racial inequality
Hello and welcome to the identity politics podcast I'm gale entering. During the past month and a half adds we've discussed on the past public opinion has moved significantly. In favor of the black lives matter. And more people have teak and on the view that black people fees discrimination in America. That also comes at a time when white liberals were already increasingly telling pollsters that they are concerned about racial inequality and discriminate each. But it's one thing develop pollster. And it's perhaps another thing to support the policies the try to rectify the qualities UC. So will Democrats particularly white Democrats support policies like greater school integration affirmative action or reparations. My colleagues Perry bacon junior and Meredith con right dug into the data to try to figure out the answer to question. And they're here at me to discuss what they found so parents get out your welcome thanks Galen. And Meredith is a political science professor at California state university and is also a 530 contributor welcome to the show Meredith good idea. I. We're gonna get into the details plenty but it. Let's talk about the general trend here before we dive and Meredith. Is their support for specific policies to address racial inequality. Amongst. Democrats probably white Democrats in particular. So I'm saying that there's increasingly this on the foundation. For support or that specific policies that would address racial equality that we're talking about here. I just given. Actually white Democrats at a tea change is about discrimination racism. Because prejudice undermine support for the policy we're talking about so. People are less prejudice. And they'll be more open their policies. And that black Americans are so I think you know are digging into the pool would support that there's the strong pound each. Whether. The specific policy proposals. That are. Over the race con reached race conscious. Had the support of what Democrat thinking. That's less. Clear from the data that we that we look at. This is tell over the baca house hurricane. I think this came from some our colleagues like there was it was one of these meetings like you know in the business who work for George Fuller protests in which people's. I think I did a piece about how white Democrats are all these protests were examples are discussing on policing issues. And ten of broader use of discrimination. White Democrats fairly close the black Democrats at this point in polls and in people like so is this kind of hope they will this or is this something real. And I was like well I don't totally know and so to mine might butler's list are looking up bunch of Reno a wide range of issues. So we've always been a week the two of us just looking for polling that was not the most fun because my life. We didn't look at look at her poll after poll and honestly I'm not trying to immunize makes tweeted to see who is like. There's listeners we need some more holes about things beyond policing it better by tonight quickly down there wasn't a whole lot. To see young's of the issues and I was sort of trapped in the U polls and when he team but the general idea. Is that sort of figure out okay. On it saying you'd think black last matters is probably important sign of something but what does it look like like you know we sort of know that schools in New York answers are very segregated. You know I'm guessing most publicity that say they think lacked last matter and they think school degrees of support. You focused in this polling particularly on Democrat let you know if we worded to step back for a second. You know what do we know about the Republican side of the equation. I mean is there just no support at all or some support. Before REIT delve deeply into what divides and preferences existence Democratic Party. Yes we've focused on Democrats because they absentees she. Didn't answer no man's. And and counseling written about all the time and that's also a function of the way that polls are administered. You know going back to more about why it's so complicated. Especially tracking whole. This sample sizes smaller so you can't look at differences between Democrats Republicans. And recently generalize to those populations. Is that's because there's so. There's clean I was they've written about differences between Democrats Republicans. And so we that sticking it intra party apps Iran in particular white. Democrats and black Democrats. Sense you know whether they're promising HR issues regarding. Race and other toxic and is. Right now. I'm pretty much every issue Republicans were significantly less supportive. The policy and white Democrats in almost every issue. White Democrats in black to regret having yet. They were close to each other than white Democrats vs book so that was kind of that we put the chart was like okay Republicans don't support these things begin to say that in not. That included in the much charts. We didn't we didn't end up one more question about the mess we didn't end up writing about Hispanic or Asian Democrats who were about. You know combined about you know it's 18% of Democrats and I did they give up its own recent talk about this on the decision was basically. That the issues we were trying to focus Arsenault is whose lives are. Racial inequality black people's that was one in the in the most Democrats are way group with the most money is light. If you deteriorate schools are we talking about white people ultimately that was kind of thought but there but I probably because they are not including Asian. And Latino Democrats use of these issues which I don't think. It also there was some sample size limitations I could evenly summarize and yes. Yeah. Due to advances your data collection is a story in and of itself there were I think we can get a little more injured as regard through some of this polling because I am curious how you dealt with a sample size. Issues but let's talk about what you actually found during that week of collecting pulls you looked at essentially four different categories it was education. In com housing and the workplace all four areas where we see significant discrimination in America that's well documented. Indeed and be that you looked at specific policies aimed at addressing those inequalities. And so let's begin with education here a report last year from Ed field. Showed that school districts that predominantly serve students of color receive 23 billion dollars less in funding. Then mostly white school districts in 2016. Despite serving the same number of students so it's clear that there is. At an inequality there. What education policies are pollsters asking about. That would try to address that and what results did you see in this breakdown between white and Democrats. The big hit by day. And we heard about the little bit last you do during you don't come what Harrison. Joseph Biden ripped the debate within bussing kids to other school districts. As the week end to integrate. 71%. Of black Democrats supported dead. 49%. Of white Democrat support that. And is in a related question having students attend schools outside other local areas in order to assure diversity. 71%. Of black Democrats. 52%. Of white but Democrats. So I think so those kind of echoes of the sort of blessing of the most aggressive school integration. In my sense is we have to have an overlay from net which black people so the book upon brown VU board and that sort of blessing period so what finally. And that was very controversial among white people at the time. And perhaps is right Nia he policy that was unpopular with both groups. Was considering. Race and ethnicity in college it mists. Which only it is important is certainly at least from pew and I have seen others were more popular in the survey. Only 34% of white Democrats weren't and only 30% thirty that was in the black Democrats support that. In my yes is this done in as opposed to where it incident give them. We're gonna like luckiest person incident site we race in terms of the admission might yes and talking to people is it more popular idea might be Hussein. If you're in the top ten percentage your class at school X you can in the college while. My sense is people lacking in wider somewhat nervous about. Wreath at the individual level we found that at the workplace diversity questions to where people were also nervous about. Considering race in terms of who you get to higher at the individual thing that's that was sort of WBZ funny I was a little private audience here. Yes affirmative action paying college Michigan my present. 39% of black Democrats. And thirty more percent of white and not a lot of support. I think about this is earth and some social science helps cut it in requirement. What's going on here possibly eat out are the beneficiaries of policies and it done. I think it airs. This discussed about affirmative action optimum especially from the opponents. Suggests that. And those it people who deserve. To be eight minute are being punished. And lapidus lands an equal opportunity. Affirmative action. A dozen teen. Years if you're emphasizing those cooler American out is well I I've. And also goes what exit about you know. Speaking at a at an individual. And college. Ways not be tricky you. A little support it began about who's losing in his meaning here and there's. Are immediately clear losers especially off as opponents free and there's clear losers from affirmative action in college which people who don't dessert. You're winning you're losing a framing where there are probably one policy would be asked. Which means drying school district clients and school budgets rely primarily on tax is. And I was surprised to see. White and black Democrats for re trying. School district clients. You know more than seventy cents an axle. We should also be clear we didn't talk with the earlier is this. We need to we there's reason when you poll sickly recently used to be skeptical and very look. What the accuracy of responses. And in to people's. Like I lived in the Peter communities. I don't think redraw school lives with after the last actually be very popular in let's say that is to Maryland. Which if you're trying to integrate into Washington DC proper. Ends oh or like. Westchester New York City united state that issue might not actually be that popular if it was like politicized and really discuss the people really know. What school district lines means and that way and they might and might be a policy where they might soon be vague about it and his work Eva. When I jumped out of muse being I don't believe that at all in that Lexus. Yes I mean this is something and we can talk more about as regards for use some the different topics that you looked into but. When you look at the polling and when you look act what happens in real life sometimes it's harder to. Kind of Mary the two things and make sense so let's look I had to use some of the other. Areas that you looked into the next one with Ian can't. And just a kind of set the scene here the black and white wealth gap in the US is as wide today as it was in the sixties. And it persists at every education level and is especially pronounced actually for people would bachelor's degrees and advanced degrees. So what kind. Economic policies our pollster is asking about Perry Wen it coms to you. You know. So questions we focus. I think it's mostly what I found was that me and we did it question. And raising taxes on people who make more than it is 6000 dollars a year. There was a question of hell holes of warts year there was a question about Kennedy's funeral will tax the kind of thing it was a large parties in his campaign. And there are questions about reports. And so we found was the on the taxing the will be more or raising taxes on people a lot of money. Is that white Democrats were actually sort of more more support than black Democrats OO groups were overwhelmingly support document in the eighties vote. And then on the reparations question. We saw some very large. Like you know like there was a lot of talk in the democratic primary now. Joseph Biden would win the moderate vote because along with winning the black vote because black people are more moderate. Then white Democrats are and I was always skeptical about it and handle a question yes but on reparations we see gaps in the part where. 70%. Lacked an. Democrats or operations. Third person of white people when Democrats or so look for him when he GAAP. A very very large yet that was cross surveys that would surveys before you were exploit that would certainly active viewers what details leader. You know obviously. It's not surprising news black Democrats need more support a policy would be my body in white Democrats we should not ignore the guys here but this and I think it was notable. I you know another thing this is like exclusive polling for the pocket with a packet. Mayor. Alvin and review got this right here now. Is that merit it's the nation's ski democracy button hole. In which you down with the black Democrats in all age groups whose work race but. Democrats under forty you look at white Democrats under forty. 46%. Support reparations. 30% oppose them the rest knocks you so what sixty. Democrats were white over forty. When he one's person support. 48%. Oppose the remove 1% Napster so plus sixteen under four. Minus 27. There's actor plates murder snow takes into account some of the ships that we stop. We carried into your before. The door exploit murder and after he acts. Artists are just as large. I would take intriguing that at least with a hit and you really need it at that we looked at democracy fund. Get that. White endemic white Democrats and Democrats are people moving. So the gap remains the same but it's because both groups are poll more supportive reparations in part you know. It is important what you bring up two years that. A lot of this policy poll Lang. Doesn't exist or is done very often and so sometimes you had to rely on polls that were often Niger had to rely. Rely on poles that were conducted before George for its. Murder and we don't know whether or not the views on some of these things. Are changing how quickly they're changing. And you know one thing that we should note here with regards to reparations as that Asheville, North Carolina on Tuesday of this week their City Council approved. Reparations. For black people in Astro and that is an 80% white community. And I guess the question here is. You know easy. Was that the City Council doing that regardless of whether or not it was popular within the community ward does this suggest that attitudes are actually change. It seems clearer that. A motive he. How. E-commerce speech about racially on shifting. Following George Clinton's debt I think a lot of the policy focus has been on policing. Their clear connection there for people who are watching these videos. Google now for me if you focus on systemic racism. At which reparations. Is it out. And you know listening to reading an article where. That's clear how to explain anthrax now there are talking about. The history of slavery in your Internet community in particular. How that community benefited from slate green. Analyzed discusses reparations since this peace with our readers who away presumably here mostly white as vice visit. Most of America west meant just that you know so. I had I do think that part of were captured UVs reparations poems people don't really told no we're talking about I don't really know exactly what. I think when we get more detailed proposals. Bit actually have laws and hand are written up and I think he had hip people are not certain is that he let go for a white person is like having their taxes raised to give Oprah money. No they're probably not for this even if it means Michael Bloomberg is heated text reads to give. Give money to some black people not Oprah I think that might be different weeded that is I think that reparations polling is helpful and it tells us something. But in activity tells the idea is gonna have to be moved a lot programs right popular. I don't think it tells us that much that the people are sort of reacting this is a general idea they don't totally understand. And ink is. More writing is studies in May remain unpopular Revver but I do you think it be worth thinking about this question and sort of policy process goes through and I'll be curious question looks like. In seven months if people Nicole had assumed it was through this New York Times make victims magazine piece that was really well read about reparation and Adobe other writings of doubt that that is. One issue where I'm curious rearm and six months. Yeah and I will know each year that. Asheville, North Carolina is reparations. Plan. Did not include tax payments. And it essentially said it was an agreement to put together a commission to look at what kinds of programs can be funded in order to reduce inequality. So you know. Even that may polls significantly differently than something that includes Euro. Specific transfers of wealth from one group of people to you directly to another you know. As you mention there's a lot of polling that we don't pack here and and more cannon should be done for us to better understand what Americans want from all of us. It's been more than fifty years since the fair housing act passed but many cities this is no news to anybody remain highly segregated we have unequal distribution of resources and amenities across different cities you know in your PC even mention something as basic as supermarkets. So what kinds. You know appetite what an appetite did you find amongst black and white Democrats. For. You know promoting more affordable housing army be integrating people within city. Snow on the poll found black eyed Democrats were broadly similar. In seeing right because the same factors that sheet. Her social policy entities on the other if you looked at ideology. Is it guilt which. They should she support or he's asked house. Yet gas for smaller here however I'll now be questions were over me. Race conscious it you know building more overall. And buildings bellowing come those aren't. Overtly racial. Potential me that might explain why there was scenes work are white and black Democrat. Thought that carry it again we can't find questions that. Where explicitly it out as you mentioned. Neighborhood integration in our power I'm sure there are. Holes out there we look part of it and I. Hope in box and people Finney yes here's these questions about an appliance or whatever. At questions at here are Albert. So move. Building more low income housing in the suburbs. We it's actually think it's. Creek your question in. It has reached a lot of people everything now so why so which you now it's feeling more alone cannot in the summer. Sammy Knight president went to work at 82 personal life. Building more houses condos apartments in your community. 66. White Democrats said he accidentally into or out Saturday where race despite almost it's. And then will we in the end people. If your community who thinks their comedians not racially diverse some basic comedians to. To whom. Too much at one race. 36% white Democrats. 31%. Of black Democrats so. On some level if people like we head helping matters in the country and it UN. Third in the voting only a third. White and black Democrats think it's a problem. Deputies you can suggest we're not Saul you see other problems too quickly because they're not hearing it's all so the similarities in these in these responses. The questions were not actually you know fanatic since they released in the night do you think that they. Had some sort of odd years Rachel mentioned tonight acting responses somewhat seriously. In it sort of told me I think. I mean any white Democrats. Mean that. Mean at this point see housing integration. In the same way they see what policing as he sort of immediate goal to make the world better for black Americans and then my guess is some. Black Democrats want good Nate. They'd honestly want to app world. Having more widely relentlessly added my neighborhood in my neighborhood terms what comes in the letter to the stores are so once I think it's worked when he. Americans go to church is voluntarily. In the Sunni units are 201 race to you won't let in why you did so at a housing questioned me raise questions elect. Do what tenant in the end people actually happens is racism we've not friends school. Yeah you know this brings up the question when it comes to. Large percentage as a bull black and white Democrats saying. That they support more affordable housing being built in their community you think of well to do right communities oftentimes in liberal cities like San Francisco for example. Where you see a lot of opposition to building affordable housing I think this is commonly referred to rest nimby ism or not in my back yard. So. You know is this another police were reach a question. The the kind of polling vs the reality and it. If so why are people saying that this is something that they support but then not supporting in reality. But wait what would encourage somebody it's helpful to them they support something that actually. People are trying to signal good things about themselves and I don't think I'm not surprised people win call on the pole are like. Lindy keep the poor people wait for you I think he'll be an unpopular things today. But in reality I hate the perception is that or people commit more crimes. Maybe they're not as good they're kids aren't good schools. Maybe you just like a salute more homogeneous community. I questions and he is obvious why the review lying on that question. In fact I was a little bit surprised moral white Democrats did not lie. In say they've really wanted to being racially diverse community because that's my life experiences. Lots of what Democrats are human diversity he's done so I threw a surprising and lie on their questions you like to I think there. But overall. There's research on what's called social desire don't. And and that means that you sort of want to see movies out right now. You're a Democrat of any race particularly year old white Democrat we need culture shifted on race in this news. Means that your often sorrows. Pressure to signal certain things and I think that's kind of what the danger involves only news you might signal things you don't quite believe it. Yeah I mean you don't you're forming pinion about policy especially media wants you haven't thought out. Democratic Party particulars and ending left on a lot of these kinds an issue and so you probably do you I. They possess those values you know about. Addressing racial equality in and you hear question like is nearly yes this address address racial equality. I agree. Exactly it's different than actually. When he you know that's what Indians and it's Medicaid now it's in your backyard. What what he's saying now. And sell. I think the values are there and and you reflect what people me. But. They public feel different when it comes. And just a take it a step further I mean. Is there. Why don't. You know white Democrats support this when it comes to their own community. And a short answer is like. Race and income and power and class are very related in our country so it's not surprising yet flights. I mean heartless and approve this to my guess is as if for a lot of people who were light that you had to immediately in the neighborhood in weeks. It's. It's a it's Barack Obama lives there. A guy who directed Hamilton lives there Susan Rice moves there Pamela Harris lives there. In the end most at risk that beauty is wines. Debt might be with the looking for an it is wrong that these that would have to be a lot of cultural power a lot of economic power a lot of well. And also be diversity it's like it's like people you know I went to Yale he's like not a place that it has the very high number of Ritz people. That's a Yale it was a muted the has been at this security Gail and her I was personally respect and a personal risk. In which he also I think you'd be hard for me. In in the way our country's structure to be hard for me. To tell someone who's operating. Don't leave me in the neighborhood rate schools and low reserves the question is probably not any. Part of that sort of when it's on this article is we're talking doubts about problems that the individual level reality solutions probably be that you could be societal like you. Yeah I get everybody is invested in school integration. You know events that are taking the benefits in the cost of this person that we're not all invested in the accident in the eighties and maybe nobody's seen yet the yard now honestly. There could be a lot of courting you know often. More integrated environment are more challenging and certainly what you their benefits of integration in terms like you lurk the people you've been a problem there arts on terms. People's differences can be apparent in regional. Yeah. Got an important perspective and white. As reporting here in this conversation pulling can't tell us everything like maybe you give you didn't wanna hear about on the 530 politics are like. Pulling can tell us a lot of a lot of things like. You know what people say they believe what are asked about it by. Eat it even when it's a genuinely held belief he can't necessarily tell us why and that's kind of where polling comes and and dinero. A lot of research and reading and conversation and and so you know yes out of put that out there so I broke a pole as can pull can't tell us absolutely everything. None. And so finally we've talked about education which are wrecked in com and housing apparently you looked at workplaces. And black Americans faced notably higher levels of unemployment and underemployment even among college grants so. You know you'll see here that the theme is. That while. The assumption might believe that some of these. Areas of discrimination and exist be close certain segments of the population based on race may be less educated. You know that's not necessarily trigger right we see these. These kinds of inequalities persist regardless of their educational attainment so. What did you find about appetites amongst white Democrats. For our. Integrated workplace it is considering race in hiring and things like. All people connected. And 2019 or 2018 people count on workplace diversity. Oh. There are a lot of similarities between white and not Democrats on these questions and M with Ricci shattering in hiring informants and only 37% of what Democrats. Agreed that she shattered and only 38% of black Democrat so those are bowl. Broadly though affirmative action. I at 17% appoint Democrats and 78 at Latin acts. Sick but where are in favor. For affirmative action. Which appearing and I discussed it's at that's pretty any. Parents that was specific. Where it's fairly and name whether or not companies should promote racial diversity. You'd supports us 7089%. Of what Democrats. I think companies lower rich diversity and each a black Democrat. One of those doctor I would say. Questions asked motorists to oversee his lean. But yeah. Similar questions that be. These response six mile since. I and I every workplace I work including bacteria obviously this scene and it was is that. I mean I think a lot of people once it working diverse workplace. They don't honestly want to have this job X. We posted we wanna have a black person in this job or wanna have a woman or girl you know person and his job away. They NX he's a real court tension which is. We all want it. Captain verse were placed in a lot of ways. We're not release your attic get there. And if that means each high here is gonna be evaluated in a recent suited ideally people don't like that that's not surprising to these aren't being. This is kind of one of those places right BP intentions and Tenet excuse intentions are a big gap the hormones are resolved. I I conversation is. Might be moving a little bit on this I don't I've been paying a little bit of attention to do for example. Latest. Any fair covers less shop for the first time ever by a black photographer. Viola Davis and I think that kind of thing is celebrate it. And khaki let me crypt you know. Brightly critical of Vanity Fair for a month and photographers. So it. In many ways if you think this potentially could be changing thinking about. Race team in drops. Yet enemy and to some extent. In this issue I don't know. Ghetto if this pertains to other questions as well but it's potentially an area work. Broad public opinion matters last because private companies can you know with in the bounds. Get or workplace discrimination law create their own policies and pursue what they want to pursue whether or not the American public. Ditto Saturday. It's really good point I think I'm on the last hot money podcast analyst that says it can carry you brought up. How are at the elite level teens are being made in Hubert talked about it corporations right and have company varies company policy. And eat less of political science is like oh yeah. Not everything Hass happened through legislation like real change can't happen in other areas and so yet to. I'm curious kind of talking about all of these different topics. Housing education and income workplace. Did you find particular trends in. Where are you know white and black Democrats were largely in agreement and where there was a significant divide. And. Think the way we framed it was indeed solution was sort. Reeks specific. Or Mary horse race specific meeting let me reparations. But also in the solution is the area own. Let's name wrought bees intrusive aggressive pick a word here. Those with a more there is no one was unpopular that was how it takes ideas like reparations. But seeing. Scene you know Sudanese students to schools that means those with a sort of most aggressive right years. In we've sort of I would argue most of them into its might come to black people and not much to white people so unsurprisingly this world one of the biggest yet was. And terms of the ones were was most similar. Where I would say yeah that is what is like magnet schools are electing this sort wore me. And like. Companies it should promote more racial diversity is not surprising that is like Mary that was in the eighties so I think that the general trend. But I don't be reluctant to say too much movements I don't think we have a lot more. Question yet you mentioned throughout the piece as we've mentioned already that there are certain places where people may overstate. There are support for a specific policy because they want to kept year. Accepting and they know you know from their and political social interactions the dots the quarter or right answer. You don't meet me is there any more optimistic view that. Some of this polling because it was conducted before this reckoning. Is understating. Where people are currently. This mine its case I think a couple things are are possible. Which might understated. One is that with him this and his early years it. The conversations themselves there were added right now me. Ports in these changes in six months or nine months to years like. The conversation around or race like. University Californians that they want to consider race in admissions again so. Are there things where it is that he beats you know come up knows this and be signaling. From what can be university from New York Times magazine. From you can see from rod and you know rob at the end of people are reading these books though. Our people's views and change based on its hard to imagine that they wouldn't change tonight if you're seeing him like black lab manager Credo a lot of sages in terms of recent localism. And I assume that people program a second period. That's when things. And that's part of it might Robert Griffin who doesn't holy for democracy fund. Made its point I was very good point is it. Once people so are expressing certain attitudes and behaviors. Date they want their political use in their exits the lineup what that so if more and more people are saying. I care about racial equality. Anti black written using huge problem I believe it integration. I think you're gonna have more people start saying it over time. And the ending an episode of line up their actions today and I think you will act units are seen I think you're going to see. More I think it's you know I don't know when schools are gonna start Beatty in Susan Hogan but I do you think on the school issue and I heard this already. People live like who like regrouped on this reading these books about race and racial equality last few weeks. I had a lot more harm us parsley about school integration. When white people and I had previously think people are thinking about and there's what okay. Now right now it's been sober analysis vis who integrates existing important. Had alleged acts had an excellent and our producer pal but I think those counties are happening. And I think in part recuse. Once stated rates you know once once the racism Richland board topping your mind I think if you got a lot of action cnet's I think there's potential that. These polls look differently a year and more in their ideas that are more important that you would applaud. I would cosigned all of that absolutely abdic is she you know once voters turning. Whether a beneficiary. You know deserves. Policies of facts order. In this case for talk. A decision about whether this policy should that become relatively simple click caring says kind of connect seen. Ideas about racism and discrimination. Policies that would actually change that is it being our logical next step here. And then also mentioned a lease to blame I think is also where president Asia hanging. Congrats matters. You hat. A more racially diverse congress partly because the Democratic Party. And don't wait it talk about. What what Democrats. Back. It talk about race and race is crystal I think. NASA so it's clearer use their constituents or their supporters. How about us and that teacher BUE. Book to hit shifting attitudes. Let me talk. On Monday yet you know that promise. You pick a woman is vice president black problem. And Supreme Court to answer that Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton could be done because they are. And probably help Joseph Biden a white man but I think and being. Might change attitudes it might be like oval Joseph Biden who I respect tanks I would consider race and gender in these kinds of things and he was. Another accident so maybe some doubt in my illegal to do yet to don't have saluted and it's not likely you know every eight minutes. I think that acted like people like Joseph Biden are talking about race more openly. And talking about she rested more openly I think that convincingly really matters like a lot of evidence that. Black people use on. In this context like I know the congress as this. I mean they're the Democrats in the house and the it is build a study reparations. And they got their nervous about bringing to the floor and I think they're right to be nervous about it. But I think if they actually you know called it deal to close Andean. Reparations study is approved by the majority. House which means the most house Democrats who own or it. I think and Joseph Biden and you've already that study is now reports the studies are racists like do you think that kind of being will make people think OK you. If the democratic position is. Reparations to be. Democrat Levy's picture. It's Joseph Biden if you look think it's a good idea. Wyatt do not do I think it's not a good ideas I think that cannot be really matters a lot. You know one of the common narratives that developed over the past. Just five to ten years. Has been that. White liberals. Are. Becoming very corner coral and that they may even becoming more. Quarterly or recently that role then minorities in the Democratic Party and this study has been cited in various places to back out and it's the 2018. American national election studies pilots are. And it found that 78%. Of white Democrats thought having more races last ethnicity in the country makes it a better placed it. 57%. Of black Democrats felt that way in 63%. Of Hispanic Democrats felt it. And then other data shows that white liberals read nonwhite groups more positive we've and they do you whites and white liberals are the only group. Debt due fever the out group over their group themselves. So this has gotten plenty of play in certain circles of the Internet does that data that you on clobbered in this east challenge that this idea that. In a white Democrats have become so liberal or even more liberal than black Democrats on these kinds of issues. Share any heavy stresses that any. Yes but it we give out the groups themselves more so. Why Democrats and white liberals are very different groups actually circuit you know about after the Democrats are marketed himself moderate conservatives some number like so we use. I's like yeah I might since it is if you find yourself with a white and general on this point in the world's history it means you're yet fairly. Liberal views on recently ceased you so asking someone who had. Who is defined themselves as being liberal everything if their liberal race users you've been yes they ER. It's also working you know we talk about category of black Democrats. Since most black people not feel comfortable with the Republican Party. There will be people who call themselves conservatives who were black were still Democrats are more moderate. Who were who actually are modern issues who are black Democrat so. White liberals Berry is that isn't much as a category people who liberal views and everything. Vs black Democrats is that category people who's basically all like you. So I think yes we're thinking about bets ahead in punitive reparations don't write ticket that's not something use this white liberals. BP more or even white younger white Democrats VP war. Liberal on Rick's list use insulin expressive way. Did any here's my money anyway so I think yes we're thinking about as well but I do. I don't discount this REI think it depends on what issue we're talking I do think unlike. Medicare for all white liberals might be to the left of black Democrats are having a problem true I don't know if we tell what talk about like. School integration involves blasting. Not sure that I and sort too confident. White Democrats meeting in white liberals are well left of black people. Yeah ice I have seen that go around and there's new plants keep her appetite and I mean that it's about the stashed at collective guilt. Which is to find his white. Marks for their treatment lasts and this is something on their white and his hour. Their groups treatment at lax. And that can check and you. There less prejudice and like these are policies that. Benefit blacks believe slavery. Affects the day and not they'll kill. On and you can name. You know not. Beat racist also not gilts look guilt is. Unique content that it be op argue and it is just as it's a small. Population of white liberals to. Pass it at that it in fact it impacts there. Police a lot of these things and they do you wonder little bit about that how much actors and eager out because she'll change. About your own tree. Or other racial groups. So Hugh at some polling on DC police you know. And what they is the group most important that unions. Black people under forty. The group's second support white Democrats and forty the group is our most important news. Black Democrats over important who can least support his wife to over forty in other words. I do you think that some of these racial issues. Any. Each component is worth thinking about right and right do you think it white. Democrats under forty are getting close and some issues are more recent liberal men. Black Democrats over forty in other words Egypt race or indirect right do you think he. Younger lose rule white coat or. He's he's moved being left operations and very aggressive way and meaty who left black 65 and mr. As we wrap up here we talk a lot about. All kinds of different data that I know you have scoured the Internet and archives for. You know what bar of the limitations. On collecting. Deed. Day is specifically about the preferences. Black and white Democrats. Did are. Understanding that when we talk about cross tabs on this podcast while oftentimes talking about just Democrats and Republicans or maybe old people and young people our men and women. But these are much smaller subset of the American public so what are the challenges here and what what have we learned about polling from during. With respect to its policy prescriptions. It's really hard to find holes where those is that the question their act you're acting usually lookers. Specialize. And a lower think tanks that are interested in this issue in particular. Challenge with respect. That are being asked. And then within that group that were just getting any larger sample sizes and marks and it and show that. Further minutes T where we can look for data on this and I'll add one more thing a lot of questions like you mentioned that we're talking year complicated so. That you can. And he. And east where trust trust the public opinion polls on issues like these that are specific. It's. It's that's. There was a time when Everett is a deliberative calling where it would actually bring people to a certain place. Other weekend that would never happen. Now that he would bring people together and it would have. Experts they are talking about. All of the many sides of an issue and then it equal or deliberation and an and it would pull after the delivery chain. And they are getting you know more informs. Can you. Balance or even we're probably. A better indicator of what people actually me me. Saying you know ask that question of not knowing necessary. Thomas the person understands. You. I Hussein the utilities and I sort of been knowing this and I'll do it again here is and the pollsters. I don't know I don't have the exact racial diversity of the American. Pollster industry. I've seen pictures of their conferences. But it that way and needed it and particularly racially diverse group and I think that comes out of the question is does that. We have a tunnel poll suggesting about reparations. Confederate monuments and the police and not a whole lot of other variety of questions and I do think it big group was more diversified you might. It almost seems like you're looking for each other's questions that are you know we're never gonna collect and good on referendum good only certain questions now. And I think they ask what what's not buying really problematic. This is partly because of this question in power recently cities in America and I understand why questions asked and historical record but yes that's. My guess is that. David duke and Al Sharpton. Bowl being reasons and America are adding can be improved and so any policy yesterday answer that it would tell us anything basically. Our race relations bandit queen we're asking is the news media covering some racial storyline and that is obviously yes it's time to know at times. That's not particularly useful question to ask the second thing I think is a the problem is this. I don't know that we have a lot of play because holes large sample sizes of black Democrats are black people. And we don't well poll done by black people running polls ethnic question so. When I talked to black people reparations. We usually done with Scott remind us you know the worthiness or at we you've got to his. Can you imagine what a pet class B a he oh Wednesday morning to you know we might get a president Kennedy's. Even more racist than some present we presently have before so I think it that. The conversation is like not this is just a good idea. In his do we it is a fair idea where. How white people perceive this policy and select which are way too has questions of him beard or discussing and it did it because. You're not meeting its only black people's use purely on. If there's a good idea they're sort of thinking. If it's a good ideas in the country live. Air in the president's. You should not. The black president in recent arrest the person in front of their house that was the controversial of this. So I think that is what were intimately or be asking maybe we need some focus groups and better questions and worked hard questions because. Asking reparations and the serenity way I think that you get what will. Yes you get reparations you expect when nevermind you let you know we the people are so picking up act placed it. He do you all really good points and I hope people learned a good amount about you know where the divisions that currently exist fall. And will be able to come back to this in the future and see if they they persist through. This you know reckoning that we are talking about so thanks a lot for turning me today Terry and merit rhetoric rich. Thank you. Yes thanks you yes. My name is Gail and drew Tony chow is in the virtual control room. You can get in touch by emailing us at pod cast at 530 dot com you can also of course treated us with questions or comments. If your fan of the show leave us a reading or review in the apple podcast store or tell someone about us. Thanks for listening and rules. And yeah. Yeah.

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