Transcript for After Flynn plea deal, what's next in special counsel Mueller's investigation?
two legal experts. Former attorney general Michael mukasey and Dan Abrams. You both agree this tweet in and of itself not that damaging? No, I don't think this is going to be a huge piece in the investigation. I don't think the president's tweets in general are going to be a particularly important focus. Coming on the heels of this deal. With Michael Flynn. The two things they're focusing on are not the things in the transition. It's about what happened during the campaign. And what happened after that in terms of possible obstruction of justice. Those will be the focuses. You're a former prosecutor as well. When you saw that plea agreement, relatively narrow plea agreement, what did you make of it? What I made of it is that a lot of the heavy breathing and speculation is completely unwarranted. That plea agreement, does not, to me, indicate there is much else there. When you have a witness who can put other people into criminal behavior, you can do one of two things. Give them immune tie. Immunize them. Or else. You can make them plead guilty to participating in the same criminal conduct you're trying to proof up against the other people you're after. Because that's the most -- We have been -- Evidence of the existence of a conspiracy. We thought Robert Mueller could have gotten Michael Flynn on several other counts. That's right. He made it clear in the document. Didn't he have to get something significant in return? No. Not necessarily. I think that is a very generous way to view it. Take it out of this investigation and put it into the context of any investigation like this. Flynn is considered the smaller fish to get to the bigger fish. You can hope he won't have anything else. But, he did offer a proffer. He basically told them, here's what I can give you. They thought to themselves this is important enough for us to cut a deal on a small fry indictment here. Six months in jail. At most. It's speck that live. And if tease or not, if he testifies at trial, to a wheel lot of the sort of things that Dan was just suggesting, then he's going to get cut to ribbons. You pleaded guilty to the patty-cake charge and you're telling us you knew all this other stuff. That happens in every case. No it's not what happens. Of course it does. Of course it does. The bottom line is when you cut a deal with someone, they're going to get attacked for cutting a deal when they testify by the defense. Every case. So to suggest, oh, he's going the get attacked because he cut a deal on a small fry plea, that's what happens. He's not protected under the terms of the agreement. Not protected against anything other than what he's pled guilty to. He's still got a fifth amendment right. That means Robert Mueller has leverage over him, doesn't it? No. He could come back with other charges. But what's the point? How do you answer the threshold question. Why would Michael Flynn lie to the FBI? Sthat the question. Understand, he was being inves gated by the FBI before the change of administration. Before being questioned. He lied about these contacts. Understood. He's been questioned by the FBI when the FBI is still turned the direction of the Obama administration. I don't know what he thought was going on at the time. There are people in the world that would lie when the truth is do. We have all encountered this. Dan, it seems from the agreement that Mueller has Jared Kushner in his sights. Yeah, I think that if you're Jared Kushner right now, you're very nervous. I do think we have to come back to the the fact that we're talking a lot about the facts of this agreement. Which relate to the Jared Kushner and the rest of the people you mentioned in the transition period. That's not the focus. Meaning, we have talk about the Logan act violation. The notion that private sis are faulking to a foreign government when they shouldn't be. It happens all the time. There won't be a prosecution here under the Logan act. We agree on that. There's going to be a prosecution for what happened during the campaign. Or there's going to be issues related to that. Or after this occurred with potential obstruction of justice. So, I think that that's where Kushner has to be concerned is what happened in the campaign itself with regard to communications with the Russians. That is one big concern. I want to walk through the possibility of obstruction with you. The white house knows that Flynn is vulnerable to black mail. Take 18 days to fire him. The day after he's fired, the president meets with James Comey and says, I hope you can let this go, according to Comey. That, on its face, is not a problem to you? No. For numerous reasons. The charges are decided bay a prosecutor. I understand that Comey has a history of telling people charges won't be brought. That's not his function. The investigation is being conducted by people in the field. Not James Comey. The president says, at about the same time, I want you the chase down anybody around me you think has done something wrong. Add all that up. It sounds like, look, this guy's been through a lot. Been fired. He's sold this country. Give him a break. The notion that trump knew and was thinking, Comey doesn't make the decisions about the nib and the people in the field presumes a level of knowledge and awareness about what the role of the FBI was in the context of this that maybe didn't exist at the time. This was, if it's true this is the president talking to the guy he thinks is running the investigation about what he hopes will happen. Whether that's a crime or not is a separate question. The notion he would know that Comey is not the one making the decision, to me is -- you know -- It's not obstruction because Comey doesn't make the decision. I agree, he probably didn't know. And if there is obstruction, it won't be just Comey. It will be the piecing together. A pattern of behavior. Thank you both. Now to Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the house
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